WildMan
Deinonychus
Joined: Nov 05, 2006
Posts: 338
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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 Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:16 pm Post subject: Am I a foreign language dummy? |
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I moved to Italy last summer. I have permanent residence and everything. But I can't speak or understand any more of the Italian language than when I got here! I tried to sign up for an "Italian as a Second Language" class last September, which was aimed at immigrants and ex-pats, but the people who referred me to the class screwed up and it was too late to sign up and all the other classes were closed, so I have to wait until next summer. I have the Rosetta Stone but... well, yeah.
I feel like a complete moron. The most I can do is go to the grocery store and ask where the beer is, while hoping to God that the person I ask is very good at pointing and gesturing. Most Italians can't speak a lick of English so it's not really possible to meet them in the middle; if you come here you either learn sufficient Italian or you're up the creek. Everybody swore up and down I'd be speaking like a pro in a matter of months. "Oh, you'll be in a state of total immersion!" They should have added the following caveat: "results may vary."
The fact that my wife is a local is what keeps me from being totally screwed. (She's also the reason that I'm here.) I work at home on my computer, using nothing but English, so at least I'm not screwed in that department (yet). I don't leave the house all that much, and when I myself socialize with people other than my wife, it's usually with the few individuals her and I know who have at least some grasp of English. My best friend over here speaks it pretty good.
I don't know what's wrong with me. I did a search here to see if other Aspies have trouble with learning foreign languages, and... holy sh**! More like the complete opposite! It turns out that Aspies are linguistic virtuosos when compared to the average bear. And I'm a complete dumbass when compared to the average bear. Many Aspies also have a thing with music. Happily, I am one of those.
Regarding music. I tried to take guitar lessons in high school and it was a complete failure. I couldn't learn theory, I couldn't figure out chords, I couldn't figure out anything. Not a damned thing. None of it made sense. My guitar teacher went so far as to tell me to take a hike, and my mom was pissed at me for having wasted her money. Five years later I bought an old crappy bass guitar off a buddy and proceeded to teach myself. I started out completely naive, going off ear and feel alone, nothing else. It turned out I had damn near virtuosic capabilities. I want to learn enough theory to compose avant-garde symphonies. And I can improv like a mo'fo. I'm self taught so there's certainly holes, some of them gaping, but I'm naturally gifted at music, to the degree that professional musicians have expressed jealousy about it. I hate to toot my own horn, but that's at least one positive generalization about Aspies that I live up to!
Language, on the other hand... nope. What the hell is wrong with me? |
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Jory
Always in the wrong place at the wrong time
Joined: Jun 03, 2011
Age: 29
Posts: 6401
Location: Tornado Alley
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I studied German for awhile, but little of it sank in. I abandoned it when I decided that (A) I had no practical application for it and (B) I had a enough issues with expressing my thoughts in English that I didn't need another language complicating things. |
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Phonic
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW!!!??
Joined: Apr 04, 2011
Age: 20
Posts: 1331
Location: The graveyard of discarded toy soldiers.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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It's a disorder called "being-a-native-english-speaker-and-thus-not-having-nearly-as-much-motivation-as-a-foreigner-to-learn-a-second-language"
You said yourself you use English during work, and that your friends speak English: you have terrible motivation when you don't really need to learn italian, people who move to an English place really do need to speak the language.
I am so happy that I grew up with English, it makes things so much easier.
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'not only has he hacked his intellect away from his feelings, but he has smashed his feelings and his capacity for judgment into smithereens'. |
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Alexender
Dodo bird
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
Age: 20
Posts: 1194
Location: wrongplanet
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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I took french for 4 years and I only remember a few phrases. People are going to talk more about how they are good at speaking different languages than not being able to. When ever we listened to a tape of someone speaking french I always zoned out.
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www.wrongplanet.net |
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faerie_queene87
Snowy Owl
Joined: Sep 28, 2011
Posts: 162
Location: the TARDIS
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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I lived in German-speaking countries for a couple of years as foreign student. Hanging out with German-speaking classmates was almost useless for me from a language learning viewpoint, because they talked too fast and I was getting frustrated because I couldn't keep up with the pace.
Two things boosted my German significantly, instead:
1) an intensive course, where everyone else was a job-seeker, and many of them didn't speak English, so slow-and-easy-German was the only way to communicate.
2) Martial arts classes, where many people were either too shy or too inexperienced with English to talk to me in that language, but there was not too much talking to do anyway.
In this way, the exposure to the language was circumscribed (content), repeated (frequency) and manageable (speed).
I guess that if you find a good enough combination of activities, you'll be able to cope with Italian eventually  Don't give up!
By the way, I'm an Italian native speaker  PM me if you have questions - I'll be glad to help.
_________________
At age 24, 4 months and 10 days I was officially told: "Congratulations! You are an Aspie".
Now I write about it --> http://happilyclueless.tumblr.com |
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WildMan
Deinonychus
Joined: Nov 05, 2006
Posts: 338
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Phonic wrote: | | You said yourself you use English during work, and that your friends speak English: you have terrible motivation when you don't really need to learn italian, people who move to an English place really do need to speak the language. |
That sounds like it's a big part of it.
Also, part of it might be that I've got some residual American chauvinism. "I shouldn't have to learn Eye-talian, this here's Ameri... oh, wait...." Okay, not really like that, but there might be some weird cultural roadblock lurking in my subconscious.
Also, I'm half Mexican half white, to use American terms. ("White" don't make much sense over here.) I'm like 4th generation on my Mexican side, not even my mom can speak Spanish, and my grandparents spoke it badly. I got a lot of crap from my Mexican friends and their families when I was growing up. For example, when I was 11, my one friend told me to "go tell my [female] cousin [something really nasty and sexual]. It means 'you're gross and you eat boogers.'" Hilarious in hindsight, not so much at the time.
Other times it was like "you don't speak Spanich? Whaddaf**k is wrong witchu mang? You a f'n dumbass, you might as well just call yourself a white boy, you not a real Mexican. What a shame." Usually got that from somebody's drunk hostile dad. One time I got scared that the old man was going to get out of his chair and kick my ass, or throw me out of his house or something. Going to Mexican weddings where most the guys had mustaches and cowboy hats was definitely not very fun. Ah, memories. I wonder if ultra-assimilated kids of other ethnic/immigrant groups have similar experiences? I used to call myself an "ultra pocho" because even the typical pocho (Americanized American-born Mexican kid) speaks at least some Spanish.
It made me resentful. "Well then maybe I'll never learn Spanish! How you like them apples!?" I avoided taking foreign languages in college, and the idea of learning one didn't appeal to me at all. I would take it as an affront if anyone were to suggest that I ought to.
And now... here I am. |
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WildMan
Deinonychus
Joined: Nov 05, 2006
Posts: 338
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| faerie_queene87 wrote: | | 1) an intensive course, where everyone else was a job-seeker, and many of them didn't speak English, so slow-and-easy-German was the only way to communicate. |
I really wish I could have gotten into that language course. This thread might not exist if I had! I signed up for one course that looked really appealing and they postponed it for several weeks waiting for more students to sign up, and because that didn't happen the course got canceled. They referred me to another course and said "it won't be a problem!" but when I went there it totally was. So now here I am sitting on my ass until next summer when the courses start up again. And totally failing in my very meager efforts to self-teach.
| Quote: | | By the way, I'm an Italian native speaker PM me if you have questions - I'll be glad to help. |
Buon giorno! Mi chiame Wildman, ma abito di Trieste. *sigh* Yeah, that's all I got. Pleased to meet ya all the same! |
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TheHouseholdCat
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 01, 2012
Posts: 667
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Alexender wrote: | | I took french for 4 years and I only remember a few phrases. People are going to talk more about how they are good at speaking different languages than not being able to. When ever we listened to a tape of someone speaking french I always zoned out. |
French, oh well... that's one of my favourite topics. I could never get a real grasp of the essence of the language. I learned French like I learnt Math. I knew it had some practical application, but I could never see how it worked. ^^
It's probably because if you have a form of ASD you tend to learn languages visually rather than orally. I know that this is main problem with French. I only know how many words look, but French native speakers talk too quickly for me to understand what words they are actually using.
My main problem with English is grammar though. I guess I still make the same grammar mistakes and I just don't see them. Of course, English grammar is laughable if you compare it to German grammar. So it's funny how I cannot remember certain grammar rules.
_________________
EXPANDED CIRCLE OF FIFTHS
"It's how they see things. It's a way of bringing class to an environment, and I say that pejoratively because, obviously, good music is good music however it's created, however it's motivated." - Thomas Newman |
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zooguy
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Mar 11, 2012
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I have been reading spanish for some 8 years or so and read say 12th grade material. I read the first harry potter book was really to hard but still I read it - I speak Engish - I can't hear a woad of spanish - I feel like a complete moron myself but and I am also an aspie - but what I have found that from others I have talked to that their family knows other languages but that the ones that can't, have Dyslexia and guess what so do I. I know one person that all her family speeks 2-3 languages but her sister can't and she has Dyslexia - so that is what I go with - I am an over achiever in every other areas other then spanish or maybe spelling too. so maybe? |
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faerie_queene87
Snowy Owl
Joined: Sep 28, 2011
Posts: 162
Location: the TARDIS
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| WildMan wrote: | | faerie_queene87 wrote: | | 1) an intensive course, where everyone else was a job-seeker, and many of them didn't speak English, so slow-and-easy-German was the only way to communicate. |
I really wish I could have gotten into that language course. This thread might not exist if I had! I signed up for one course that looked really appealing and they postponed it for several weeks waiting for more students to sign up, and because that didn't happen the course got canceled. They referred me to another course and said "it won't be a problem!" but when I went there it totally was. So now here I am sitting on my ass until next summer when the courses start up again. And totally failing in my very meager efforts to self-teach.
| Quote: | | By the way, I'm an Italian native speaker PM me if you have questions - I'll be glad to help. |
Buon giorno! Mi chiame Wildman, ma abito di Trieste. *sigh* Yeah, that's all I got. Pleased to meet ya all the same! |
Piacere! ^^
Neanche io riesco a studiare le lingue da sola  Non ti preoccupare
Btw, I know that coordination sucks big time here, but don't let it discourage you. Look at many venues, and try to get in touch with other expats or foreign students, to know whether a course is good or bad. I know that in Trieste and Gorizia there are plenty of foreign students, so there should be a market for language courses. Look for a Tandem buddy ("I teach you my language, you teach me yours, for an hour a week"), if you like, either at the workplace or somewhere else. Sorry I had forgotten to mention it - it helped me a lot both on the language and on the social skills level too (one hour of "forced" small talk and grammar every week = OMG  ).
Sorry for lecturing. Can't help it... I guess that's my "worst" Aspie trait xD
_________________
At age 24, 4 months and 10 days I was officially told: "Congratulations! You are an Aspie".
Now I write about it --> http://happilyclueless.tumblr.com |
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lotuspuppy
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 15, 2008
Age: 24
Posts: 853
Location: On a journey to the center of the mind
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I have always thought it is harder for a native English-speaker to learn another language. Not only is English wide-spread, but it has become a global lingua franca -- two speakers of different languages will use English, even when there's no native English speaker in the room. I have tried speaking German to native speakers, but they are always excited to practice their English with me. Conversing with them in their native language is rather pointless. |
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FireBird
Can't think cows will eat me!
Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Age: 30
Posts: 2297
Location: Cow Town
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I suck at foreign languages because I AM a dummy. Or in German would say, "Ich bin sehr Dumm." I took German in college and was the stupidest dumbest student in the ENTIRE class! I slowed down the class due to the teacher correcting me on everything. My pronunciation was pretty good but I couldn't say things with the true German accent. I couldn't understand the case system in other languages. In fact I couldn't understand any of it or aspects of it just the pronunciation. In fact I am able to read some Russian which I taught myself but that is where it ends. Not understanding any of it or getting past the simple reading portion of it. Just remember my IQ is just 82 so I can't learn as much as others or understand basic concepts. Right now I am having a hard time understanding speech of others in my current language (english) and reading your guys responses and fully grasping the concepts. |
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Pandora_Box
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 13, 2010
Age: 25
Posts: 1273
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I tried taking Spanish in high school. I sucked because the class was to fast for me and it takes me a while to understand the words. I basically dropped out and never looked back. |
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auntblabby
Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
Posts: 18761
Location: the island of loveable toy humans
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| i'm glad to know i'm not the only dim bulb. |
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OJani
a brat
Joined: Feb 24, 2011
Age: 40
Posts: 2322
Location: Budapest, Hungary, Europe
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:35 am Post subject: |
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Learning a foreign language is difficult for me, too. I'm glad that the basic structure of English is one of the simplest, and I have the motivation to learn it as it is widely used (computers and pop music have been my first contacts with it). Now I consider it as a window to the world, at least I will never stuck within the language boundaries of my own which is quite a good thing, imo.
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Another non-English speaking - DX'd at age 38
"Aut viam inveniam aut faciam." (Hannibal) - Latin for "I'll either find a way or make one." |
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