oddness
Blue Jay
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 Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:14 pm Post subject: Interesting article about emotions and opinions of sex |
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Thought this article may be of interest to some people. http://geekfeminism.org/2012/02/09/the-geek-social-fallacies-of-sex/
It was to me . It's written about women who work in science and technology but I think it could also apply to autistic people. I found it interesting as both an aspire and a woman working in science. it's basically about how some people mistakenly view sex and relationships as simple and forget about the strong. Emotions some people feel. My favourite lines from it are : That is an incorrect emotion, please stop experiencing it. And: Pardon me, I’m an emotion, are you okay with experiencing me.
I have definitely wanted to say the first line to quite a few people and I think life would be much better if emotions did announce what they were and whether you wanted them.
Anyone else have any thoughts on this? |
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ValentineWiggin
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:12 am Post subject: |
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My god, this is brilliant...
_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
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mds_02
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:52 am Post subject: |
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Holy crap. A self-described feminist, and I... I... agree with her.
I'm so ashamed. |
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ValentineWiggin
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| mds_02 wrote: | Holy crap. A self-described feminist, and I... I... agree with her.
I'm so ashamed. |
Why?
_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest." |
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mds_02
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| ValentineWiggin wrote: | | mds_02 wrote: | Holy crap. A self-described feminist, and I... I... agree with her.
I'm so ashamed. |
Why? |
not to derail the thread, but I am of the belief that modern feminism has gone beyond it's original intention of promoting equality. It ignores the facts in order to espouse the view that all women are victims, and that all men are oppressors. From what I've seen, nowadays it only serves to divide the genders against each other rather than promote understanding.
I've never oppressed anyone. I believe that women are the equal of men in every way. But I am tired of being treated like the enemy because I was born with a penis. |
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ValentineWiggin
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| mds_02 wrote: | | ValentineWiggin wrote: | | mds_02 wrote: | Holy crap. A self-described feminist, and I... I... agree with her.
I'm so ashamed. |
Why? |
not to derail the thread, but I am of the belief that modern feminism has gone beyond it's original intention of promoting equality. It ignores the facts in order to espouse the view that all women are victims, and that all men are oppressors. From what I've seen, nowadays it only serves to divide the genders against each other rather than promote understanding.
I've never oppressed anyone. I believe that women are the equal of men in every way. But I am tired of being treated like the enemy because I was born with a penis. |
Which feminist organizations/individuals are you referring to, and what words/actions of theirs?
Curious.
_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest." |
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mds_02
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| ValentineWiggin wrote: | | mds_02 wrote: | | ValentineWiggin wrote: | | mds_02 wrote: | Holy crap. A self-described feminist, and I... I... agree with her.
I'm so ashamed. |
Why? |
not to derail the thread, but I am of the belief that modern feminism has gone beyond it's original intention of promoting equality. It ignores the facts in order to espouse the view that all women are victims, and that all men are oppressors. From what I've seen, nowadays it only serves to divide the genders against each other rather than promote understanding.
I've never oppressed anyone. I believe that women are the equal of men in every way. But I am tired of being treated like the enemy because I was born with a penis. |
Which feminist organizations/individuals are you referring to, and what words/actions of theirs?
Curious. |
Feminism, as a whole, is based on the idea that women are disadvantaged and men priveleged. Rather than derail this thread, you can read more of my response here.
Click me! |
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ValentineWiggin
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| mds_02 wrote: | | ValentineWiggin wrote: | | mds_02 wrote: | | ValentineWiggin wrote: | | mds_02 wrote: | Holy crap. A self-described feminist, and I... I... agree with her.
I'm so ashamed. |
Why? |
not to derail the thread, but I am of the belief that modern feminism has gone beyond it's original intention of promoting equality. It ignores the facts in order to espouse the view that all women are victims, and that all men are oppressors. From what I've seen, nowadays it only serves to divide the genders against each other rather than promote understanding.
I've never oppressed anyone. I believe that women are the equal of men in every way. But I am tired of being treated like the enemy because I was born with a penis. |
Which feminist organizations/individuals are you referring to, and what words/actions of theirs?
Curious. |
Feminism, as a whole, is based on the idea that women are disadvantaged and men priveleged. Rather than derail this thread, you can read more of my response here.
Click me! |
Well that's more sociological fact than subjective ideology,
although even the ideology itself isn't contingent on less-than-ideal circumstances,
in the same way a (hypothetical) post-racist society would still oppose racism.
I read that post, and it doesn't address patriarchy whatsoever:
the fact that globally, men own the vast majority of capital, means of production, land, and occupy the vast majority of economic, cultural, and political positions of power. It doesn't address such issues as global sex trade, rape as a weapon of war, women's reproductive freedom, or gendered violence. It never mentions the effects of widespread fundamentalist religious interpretations on women such as honor killings and bride burnings and statutory rape- it seems to be a selective attempt at refuting the need for a couple of first world feminist initiatives- I'm not seeing at all where "all men are oppressors", or any attempt at denying the existence of the practices and norms feminism fights on a global scale...
_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."
Last edited by ValentineWiggin on Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:38 am; edited 2 times in total |
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mds_02
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| There's a difference between feminist ideology and the feminist movement. The ideology itself (which promotes equality) I have no problem with. The movement however, I believe has gone beyond seeking equality toward seeking privilege. |
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ValentineWiggin
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| mds_02 wrote: | | There's a difference between feminist ideology and the feminist movement. The ideology itself (which promotes equality) I have no problem with. The movement however, I believe has gone beyond seeking equality toward seeking privilege. |
Right. I asked for examples?
Which organization or individual do you take issue with, specifically?
_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest." |
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mds_02
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| ValentineWiggin wrote: | | mds_02 wrote: | | There's a difference between feminist ideology and the feminist movement. The ideology itself (which promotes equality) I have no problem with. The movement however, I believe has gone beyond seeking equality toward seeking privilege. |
Right. I asked for examples?
Which organization or individual do you take issue with, specifically? |
Feminism is not defined by the specific beliefs of any single feminist.
I am opposed to any person who believes that men have some inherent privilege in modern society. I am opposed to any person who pushes for the advancement of women (rather than just people in general) in areas where women have already surpassed men. I am opposed to any person who promotes a perception of men as oppressors.
Let's not pretend that these views are not common (didn't say universal) among those who describe themselves as feminist.
I could just as easily ask you to name feminists who don't hold those views.
Edit: going to bed, it's 5 in the damn morning. Don't want you to think I'm ignoring anything you say past this point, this discussion is interesting, I look forward to picking it up again tomorrow. |
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ValentineWiggin
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| mds_02 wrote: | | ValentineWiggin wrote: | | mds_02 wrote: | | There's a difference between feminist ideology and the feminist movement. The ideology itself (which promotes equality) I have no problem with. The movement however, I believe has gone beyond seeking equality toward seeking privilege. |
Right. I asked for examples?
Which organization or individual do you take issue with, specifically? |
Feminism is not defined by the specific beliefs of any single feminist.
I am opposed to any person who believes that men have some inherent privilege in modern society. |
So basically, anyone who has a basic knowledge of reality, sociologically? 
| mds_02 wrote: |
I am opposed to any person who pushes for the advancement of women (rather than just people in general) in areas where women have already surpassed men. I am opposed to any person who promotes a perception of men as oppressors. |
...such as....?
| mds_02 wrote: |
Let's not pretend that these views are not common (didn't say universal) among those who describe themselves as feminist. |
Well, yes...pushing for sex equality is pretty common among feminists, that being the definition.
A bit like opposing anti-racists for being FOR ________ (fill in the blank with oppressed racial group).
| mds_02 wrote: |
I could just as easily ask you to name feminists who don't hold those views. |
Well, not really, since I'm not the one indicting the feminist movement, and then refusing to name anyone specifically who I take issue with. 
_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest." |
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mds_02
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Okay, last post, then I really am going to bed. I gave specific examples, citing outside sources, of how men are not privileged. Look in my earlier post where I tried to direct this conversation to another thread. If you claim that men are privileged, I'll need to see some examples of that based on something other than outdated statistics and people's subjective feelings. |
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ValentineWiggin
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| mds_02 wrote: | | Okay, last post, then I really am going to bed. I gave specific examples, citing outside sources, of how men are not privileged. Look in my earlier post where I tried to direct this conversation to another thread. If you claim that men are privileged, I'll need to see some examples of that based on something other than outdated statistics and people's subjective feelings. |
I did read that post, and said so- it didn't counter in any way the fact that the determiners of political, economic, and cultural reality are almost totally men,
and a huge proportion of violence and oppression is gendered in nature, whether committed by men against women or by men against other men.
What statistics do you want, exactly?
The percentage of male vs. female
CEO's?
Attorneys?
Religious leaders?
Rape victims?
Media corporate heads?
Heads of state?
Judiciaries?
Legislators?
Prostitutes?
Community leaders?
Sex slaves?
Prostitutes?
Military leaders?
Violent criminals?
I'm not sure where you got the idea that patriarchy is an "ideology" as opposed to scientifically-accepted empirical fact- kind of mind-boggling, to be honest. 
I didn't see, either, a link to anyone claiming that all men are oppressors- which makes sense, since feminism indicts not men, but patriarchal institutions which favor men, and also relegate men and women to gender roles based on sex.
_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest." |
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