|
munch15a
Snowy Owl
Joined: Nov 17, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 153
|
 Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:10 am Post subject: Just joined the autism speaks hate group |
 |
|
So the other day me and a few friends where having a discussion about abortion and its morality now please feel free not to have that discussion here
I am against it as a general rule but during the debate we talked about wheater it is ok if you discover your child has a horrible debilitating disease and someone who does not know I’m on the spectrum asked if you were going to have a child with autism would not abort
This is why I don’t like them because they give off the impression that being on the spectrum is a horrible debilitating disorder when it is often not
Sorry if this sounds ranty I may come bac k and re word all of this later |
|
| Back to top |
|
bnky
Velociraptor
Joined: Nov 20, 2011
Posts: 479
Location: Kent, England
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| "If you knew your unborn baby would grow up to be a narrow-minded bigot, would you abort it" - would be an appropriate response. |
|
| Back to top |
|
NarcissusSavage
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 03, 2009
Age: 31
Posts: 656
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bnky wrote: | | "If you knew your unborn baby would grow up to be a narrow-minded bigot, would you abort it" - would be an appropriate response. |
+1!
On a personal level I, kinda selfishly, want kids on the spectrum... as many challenges and difficulties autism might bring, it brings some very unique gifts as well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 30
Posts: 9818
Location: Central USA
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
What about special-needs adoption? I'm sure there are autistic kids out there floating around in foster care, needing parents of their own. I can see that it might feel a little troubling to you to bring an autistic child into a world which still has so much anti-autism prejudice; I don't see it as being wrong to do so, but since there are kids to adopt, that would be a great alternative.
OP... beware of joining groups that are based around hating some other group. Polarization of opinions and general increase in hostility is not really a good thing. Better to join a group that's pro-autism-rights, rather than joining one that's anti-Autism-Speaks.
_________________
Engineering & Psychology student. Gamer. Christian. Asexual. Information Addict. Deal with it!
Reports from a Resident Alien:
http://chaoticidealism.livejournal.com
Last edited by Callista on Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
TheSunAlsoRises
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 02, 2011
Posts: 1039
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Just joined the autism speaks hate group |
|
|
| munch15a wrote: | So the other day me and a few friends where having a discussion about abortion and its morality now please feel free not to have that discussion here
I am against it as a general rule but during the debate we talked about wheater it is ok if you discover your child has a horrible debilitating disease and someone who does not know I’m on the spectrum asked if you were going to have a child with autism would not abort
This is why I don’t like them because they give off the impression that being on the spectrum is a horrible debilitating disorder when it is often not
Sorry if this sounds ranty I may come bac k and re word all of this later |
I want you to read the article below and then read the comment section.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303816504577307491933671470.html
TheSunAlsoRises |
|
| Back to top |
|
hartzofspace
Red Dragon
Joined: Apr 15, 2005
Posts: 7577
Location: On the Road Less Traveled
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Just joined the autism speaks hate group |
|
|
| TheSunAlsoRises wrote: | | munch15a wrote: | So the other day me and a few friends where having a discussion about abortion and its morality now please feel free not to have that discussion here
I am against it as a general rule but during the debate we talked about wheater it is ok if you discover your child has a horrible debilitating disease and someone who does not know I’m on the spectrum asked if you were going to have a child with autism would not abort
This is why I don’t like them because they give off the impression that being on the spectrum is a horrible debilitating disorder when it is often not
Sorry if this sounds ranty I may come bac k and re word all of this later |
I want you to read the article below and then read the comment section.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303816504577307491933671470.html
TheSunAlsoRises |
That article was wonderful! And the responses just go to show how closed minded some people can be. The idea that their "horribly challenged" child can be viewed in a different albeit positive way is scary and upsetting to them. They have already bought into the concept of "suffering" and "disability" so deeply that they aren't even interested in seeing a ray of hope.
_________________
Dreams are renewable. No matter what our age or condition, there are still untapped possibilities within us and new beauty waiting to be born.
-- Dr. Dale Turner |
|
| Back to top |
|
questor
Hermit
Joined: Apr 24, 2011
Posts: 1983
Location: Twilight Zone
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:35 pm Post subject: Would you abort a disabled child? |
|
|
No, I would not abort a disabled child. There are plenty of methods of helping the disabled all ready available now, and more are coming. Helen Keller went deaf, and I think blind also, as a very young child due to an illness. This happened just as she was starting to learn to talk, so for years she was mute as well, until a new tutor managed to make a break through with her using sign language. Helen Keller turned out to be a very intelligent person. You can't tell right at birth just what potential anyone--healthy or not--may have. There is too much potential in any new born, even a disabled one, to take a chance on wasting that potential.
As for how other people perceive spectrum disorders, and react to us, for now I prefer to limit who knows that I am on the spectrum. I already have problems with people because of my differences, I am not about to give them more ammo. |
|
| Back to top |
|
MrXxx
Moderator/Enigmatus Paradoxius
Joined: May 12, 2010
Posts: 5678
Location: New England
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have some problems with the way Autism Speaks portrays Autism. I also have a problem with hate of any kind.
I may hate some of the things they do, but I do not hate the people involved with Autism Speaks.
Hate has never brought about positive change. Ever.
_________________
MrXxx is taking a long sabbatical, and no longer moderating. |
|
| Back to top |
|
TheSunAlsoRises
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 02, 2011
Posts: 1039
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Just joined the autism speaks hate group |
|
|
| hartzofspace wrote: | | TheSunAlsoRises wrote: | | munch15a wrote: | So the other day me and a few friends where having a discussion about abortion and its morality now please feel free not to have that discussion here
I am against it as a general rule but during the debate we talked about wheater it is ok if you discover your child has a horrible debilitating disease and someone who does not know I’m on the spectrum asked if you were going to have a child with autism would not abort
This is why I don’t like them because they give off the impression that being on the spectrum is a horrible debilitating disorder when it is often not
Sorry if this sounds ranty I may come bac k and re word all of this later |
I want you to read the article below and then read the comment section.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303816504577307491933671470.html
TheSunAlsoRises |
That article was wonderful! And the responses just go to show how closed minded some people can be. The idea that their "horribly challenged" child can be viewed in a different albeit positive way is scary and upsetting to them. They have already bought into the concept of "suffering" and "disability" so deeply that they aren't even interested in seeing a ray of hope. |
Well, I think it was a wonderful article too BUT it does NOT reflect everyones reality. People who can NOT identify with what is being said in the article are going to speak out....sometimes quite angrily. A parent whose Autistic child is on the severe end of the spectrum probably want be able to identify(as much) with a parent whose child is on the mild end. As a result, we have a multitude of different perspectives which is understandable as well as expected.
TheSunAlsoRises |
|
| Back to top |
|
hartzofspace
Red Dragon
Joined: Apr 15, 2005
Posts: 7577
Location: On the Road Less Traveled
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Just joined the autism speaks hate group |
|
|
| TheSunAlsoRises wrote: | | hartzofspace wrote: | | TheSunAlsoRises wrote: | | munch15a wrote: | So the other day me and a few friends where having a discussion about abortion and its morality now please feel free not to have that discussion here
I am against it as a general rule but during the debate we talked about wheater it is ok if you discover your child has a horrible debilitating disease and someone who does not know I’m on the spectrum asked if you were going to have a child with autism would not abort
This is why I don’t like them because they give off the impression that being on the spectrum is a horrible debilitating disorder when it is often not
Sorry if this sounds ranty I may come bac k and re word all of this later |
I want you to read the article below and then read the comment section.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303816504577307491933671470.html
TheSunAlsoRises |
That article was wonderful! And the responses just go to show how closed minded some people can be. The idea that their "horribly challenged" child can be viewed in a different albeit positive way is scary and upsetting to them. They have already bought into the concept of "suffering" and "disability" so deeply that they aren't even interested in seeing a ray of hope. |
Well, I think it was a wonderful article too BUT it does NOT reflect everyones reality. People who can NOT identify with what is being said in the article are going to speak out....sometimes quite angrily. A parent whose Autistic child is on the severe end of the spectrum probably want be able to identify(as much) with a parent whose child is on the mild end. As a result, we have a multitude of different perspectives which is understandable as well as expected.
TheSunAlsoRises |
True. I guess they felt the same way that I would, if I said that I was suicidal and someone suggested that all I needed was fresh air and sunshine.
_________________
Dreams are renewable. No matter what our age or condition, there are still untapped possibilities within us and new beauty waiting to be born.
-- Dr. Dale Turner |
|
| Back to top |
|
Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 30
Posts: 9818
Location: Central USA
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Just joined the autism speaks hate group |
|
|
| hartzofspace wrote: | | True. I guess they felt the same way that I would, if I said that I was suicidal and someone suggested that all I needed was fresh air and sunshine. |
Granted, but if you had seasonal affective disorder, "fresh air and sunshine" might be quite an appropriate treatment. That's why they sell light boxes and tell you to sit near the window in the morning.
Even for normal depression it can't hurt--though when it's not SAD you do need more than just that. Even SAD may be intractable to just phototherapy and you might need to add counseling and/or medication.
It feels like trivializing depression when they say "fresh air and sunshine". It shouldn't. Sunshine is actually a rather powerful treatment, since your eyes connect to your brain pretty directly. Sunlight is a zeitgeber that keeps your circadian rhythm... uh, rhythmic, I guess.
So yeah, just because a treatment is simple doesn't mean it's useless. Going outside on a regular basis is one of the things I do to help prevent more depressive episodes. It couldn't do anything on its own, not for my particular case, but it does help other things stay more effective. I'm pretty sure I get more benefit from antidepressants when I go outside and exercise for an hour a day.
_________________
Engineering & Psychology student. Gamer. Christian. Asexual. Information Addict. Deal with it!
Reports from a Resident Alien:
http://chaoticidealism.livejournal.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
hartzofspace
Red Dragon
Joined: Apr 15, 2005
Posts: 7577
Location: On the Road Less Traveled
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: Just joined the autism speaks hate group |
|
|
| Callista wrote: | | hartzofspace wrote: | | True. I guess they felt the same way that I would, if I said that I was suicidal and someone suggested that all I needed was fresh air and sunshine. |
Granted, but if you had seasonal affective disorder, "fresh air and sunshine" might be quite an appropriate treatment. That's why they sell light boxes and tell you to sit near the window in the morning. |
What I meant was that if I was truly depressed and suicidal, I wouldn't be in a head space to consider the benefits of so simple sounding a solution. I would think that the person suggesting it was minimizing my pain. I used that for an example of how the parents of the severely autistic kids may have been responding to the article. You and I know that these simple remedies may really work, but there are those who don't/won't get it.
_________________
Dreams are renewable. No matter what our age or condition, there are still untapped possibilities within us and new beauty waiting to be born.
-- Dr. Dale Turner |
|
| Back to top |
|
CockneyRebel
Mick Avory, Sensitive brown-eyed Sweet Pea
Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Age: 38
Posts: 87181
Location: In a quiet and peaceful garden, where gentle Mick Avory-like Sweet Peas grow.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Mercurial
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 12, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 537
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
/groan
I abhor Autism Speaks, but I'm no fan of reactionary types either--especially anti-choice autistics who screech irrationally about how abortion perpetuates fear of autism. I had an abortion, so I know why women get abortions. I had my abortion years before I was dx'd with Aspergers. But after my dx, I quickly found out there's this insane, irrational and detached-from-reality segment of autistics who freak out and talk nonsense about how people would abort if they found out their future child might have autism because autism so horrific to them. Anyone who has had that kind of conversation about abortion, regardless of what you think about abortion, is not living in the real world.
NO ONE--and I mean absolutely NO ONE--takes that kind of kneejerk attitude towards having an abortion. For starters, the simple event of getting pregnant puts you in a pretty serious, reality-based state of mind. Everything about you, your body and your life will never be the same. So from that point on, any choices you make about that pregnancy will have that same level of gravitas. Since few things in life have the same level of gravitas that getting pregnant does, it's understandable that people who haven't been pregnant, let alone consider an abortion, don't get it. Yet for some reason, that ignorance doesn't seem to stop them from moralizing on it, does it?
I had my abortion almost 20 years ago and since then I've talked with many women and heard many stories from women like me. NONE ever approached abortion so casually. Yet I have see repeatedly how people who have no effing idea what it is like to find yourself having to consider abortion talking as if it's a light-weight choice, like the kind of car you'll buy or what kind of curtain you want in your living room. Women who consider abortion are weighing far heavier choices than anything like that. It may be a choice between having another baby when you already have 2, 3 or 4 kids. It may be a choice about whether you can raise child on your own. It may be a choice of having a baby versus leaving an abusive partner. It could be a choice between a difficult,,even potentially life-threatening pregnancy or sparing your body, your fertility and your life. And it could be in cases where disability is an issue, a matter of what quality of life you can give your future child, and whether you can provide that quality of life for that child for her or his entire life if they would not be able to be self-supporting.
Do you have any real concept of what it is like to raise a disabled child? Do you have any idea what such parents face? Quality of life includes not just the time, money and effort it would take to care for a disabled child, plus medical care, support services, and providing a proper education. It also includes how you would protect that child from scorn, isolation, prejudice, even abuse and neglect at the hands of people you would have to trust to care for that child. And if it's a disabled child who could potentially out live you, how would you be sure that child continued to get the quality of care that you want for them?
Some potential parents know they would do anything to make sure their disabled child would get the best life possible. Other may not be so sure they could provide the quality of life they would want for their child. Others yet know they simply could not provide for a disabled child, for whatever reasons. What those reason may be, however, isn't really for you to judge. Everyone's circumstances are different. And reality is, some people really cannot provide for a disabled child or genuinely do not think their child would have the quality of life they believe a child should have. And if these people were to opt for abortion, it would be out of their own conscience--a conscience they have EVERY right to follow. These ideas that people abort out of fear of disabled children isn't a reality--it's paranoid theoretical gobbledygook that people who have had no life experience regarding abortion throw around in casual conversations like the one you had. That's a luxury you get to have, so enjoy it, but for those of us who had to face these choices, we have no choice but to live in the real world where there's no easy, pretty options to serious problems like how to provide quality of life to a disabled child in the society we live in.
Now, you didn't want to talk about abortion, although you did just that. You were just looking of an excuse to justify your childish stance on abortion and so you saw it in your friend's equally childish response. This then let you fallaciously link abortion to a fear of autism, and thus by juxtaposing abortion with fear of autism, you've implied that abortion allows people an easy way out. Except that's not reality, as I've outlined for you. Choosing to have an abortion is not easy for anyone. So it's a very warped notion of abortion you are pushing to even suggest it could be, ever, for anyone, and it's demeaning, callous and bigoted towards women and parents who have to face these extraordinarily difficult circumstances. |
|
| Back to top |
|
hartzofspace
Red Dragon
Joined: Apr 15, 2005
Posts: 7577
Location: On the Road Less Traveled
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mercurial wrote: | /groan
I abhor Autism Speaks, but I'm no fan of reactionary types either--especially anti-choice autistics who screech irrationally about how abortion perpetuates fear of autism. I had an abortion, so I know why women get abortions. I had my abortion years before I was dx'd with Aspergers. But after my dx, I quickly found out there's this insane, irrational and detached-from-reality segment of autistics who freak out and talk nonsense about how people would abort if they found out their future child might have autism because autism so horrific to them. Anyone who has had that kind of conversation about abortion, regardless of what you think about abortion, is not living in the real world.
NO ONE--and I mean absolutely NO ONE--takes that kind of kneejerk attitude towards having an abortion. For starters, the simple event of getting pregnant puts you in a pretty serious, reality-based state of mind. Everything about you, your body and your life will never be the same. So from that point on, any choices you make about that pregnancy will have that same level of gravitas. Since few things in life have the same level of gravitas that getting pregnant does, it's understandable that people who haven't been pregnant, let alone consider an abortion, don't get it. Yet for some reason, that ignorance doesn't seem to stop them from moralizing on it, does it?
I had my abortion almost 20 years ago and since then I've talked with many women and heard many stories from women like me. NONE ever approached abortion so casually. Yet I have see repeatedly how people who have no effing idea what it is like to find yourself having to consider abortion talking as if it's a light-weight choice, like the kind of car you'll buy or what kind of curtain you want in your living room. Women who consider abortion are weighing far heavier choices than anything like that. It may be a choice between having another baby when you already have 2, 3 or 4 kids. It may be a choice about whether you can raise child on your own. It may be a choice of having a baby versus leaving an abusive partner. It could be a choice between a difficult,,even potentially life-threatening pregnancy or sparing your body, your fertility and your life. And it could be in cases where disability is an issue, a matter of what quality of life you can give your future child, and whether you can provide that quality of life for that child for her or his entire life if they would not be able to be self-supporting.
Do you have any real concept of what it is like to raise a disabled child? Do you have any idea what such parents face? Quality of life includes not just the time, money and effort it would take to care for a disabled child, plus medical care, support services, and providing a proper education. It also includes how you would protect that child from scorn, isolation, prejudice, even abuse and neglect at the hands of people you would have to trust to care for that child. And if it's a disabled child who could potentially out live you, how would you be sure that child continued to get the quality of care that you want for them?
Some potential parents know they would do anything to make sure their disabled child would get the best life possible. Other may not be so sure they could provide the quality of life they would want for their child. Others yet know they simply could not provide for a disabled child, for whatever reasons. What those reason may be, however, isn't really for you to judge. Everyone's circumstances are different. And reality is, some people really cannot provide for a disabled child or genuinely do not think their child would have the quality of life they believe a child should have. And if these people were to opt for abortion, it would be out of their own conscience--a conscience they have EVERY right to follow. These ideas that people abort out of fear of disabled children isn't a reality--it's paranoid theoretical gobbledygook that people who have had no life experience regarding abortion throw around in casual conversations like the one you had. That's a luxury you get to have, so enjoy it, but for those of us who had to face these choices, we have no choice but to live in the real world where there's no easy, pretty options to serious problems like how to provide quality of life to a disabled child in the society we live in.
Now, you didn't want to talk about abortion, although you did just that. You were just looking of an excuse to justify your childish stance on abortion and so you saw it in your friend's equally childish response. This then let you fallaciously link abortion to a fear of autism, and thus by juxtaposing abortion with fear of autism, you've implied that abortion allows people an easy way out. Except that's not reality, as I've outlined for you. Choosing to have an abortion is not easy for anyone. So it's a very warped notion of abortion you are pushing to even suggest it could be, ever, for anyone, and it's demeaning, callous and bigoted towards women and parents who have to face these extraordinarily difficult circumstances. |
_________________
Dreams are renewable. No matter what our age or condition, there are still untapped possibilities within us and new beauty waiting to be born.
-- Dr. Dale Turner |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
