Tyazii
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Dec 29, 2011
Posts: 61
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 Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:44 am Post subject: It's not that we are socially impaired... |
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It's that NTs are simply seeing and imagining things that aren't there. We should diagnose them all with insanity and put them all in Psychiatric hospitals.  |
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TheHouseholdCat
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Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Well, it's more like being unable to conform to norms.
"Socially impaired" is such a nasty term anyway. What's it even supposed to mean? "Oh, look, that person's acting STRANGE". I don't know... It's just convention, nothing more. It's not even a nice convention. It's just "always been that way", my favourite argument.
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Kalinda
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:17 am Post subject: |
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It's hard not to apply culture and society to everything sometimes. There is a definite issue with a person who cannot be aware of reality and accept the world as it is, not that they are in denial, but the illness itself impairs their judgement.
Luckily you can sometimes come back to reality, but it's very difficult to maintain a normal life with a mental disorder. I realize that I do qualify for Aspergers, but my main issue is basically schizoaffective, or paranoid schizophrenia. One of them...though my paranoia isn't that bad, and my moods aren't that bad either, it's that I have it under control that matters. |
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Callista
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| TheHouseholdCat wrote: | Well, it's more like being unable to conform to norms.
"Socially impaired" is such a nasty term anyway. What's it even supposed to mean? "Oh, look, that person's acting STRANGE". I don't know... It's just convention, nothing more. It's not even a nice convention. It's just "always been that way", my favourite argument. |
It means that we can't learn new norms as effectively as NTs can. NTs have hundreds of different cultures, and they fit into them as they grow up. We don't, because we don't naturally pick up on that stuff. That's the difference--not the exact behavior, but the ability to learn new behavior.
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Joe90
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:37 am Post subject: |
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This proves that lack of empathy is not an Autistic trait. I don't know why so many people believe it, and I don't know why so many non-Autistics make out that lack of empathy is an Autistic trait without taking a look at themselves first.
The majority of NTs only tend to feel empathy for someone else if they have had similar experiences themselves. Otherwise, they don't want to know. If universal empathy was a NT trait, then Autistics would be much more socially accepted or understood. NTs who can feel for Autistics are those who perhaps have a close relative with Autism or something. Otherwise, they can't have the empathy. They just look at someone who is Autistic and think, ''oh, they're weird, keep away from them and exclude them from our gang!'' If that is empathy, then what isn't? If NTs were empathetic, they'd look at an Autistic and think, ''I can easily imagine what it must be like to be that person, so maybe I will give them a chance.''
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Kyra71
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Joined: Feb 23, 2012
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Joe90 wrote: | This proves that lack of empathy is not an Autistic trait. I don't know why so many people believe it, and I don't know why so many non-Autistics make out that lack of empathy is an Autistic trait without taking a look at themselves first.
The majority of NTs only tend to feel empathy for someone else if they have had similar experiences themselves. Otherwise, they don't want to know. If universal empathy was a NT trait, then Autistics would be much more socially accepted or understood. NTs who can feel for Autistics are those who perhaps have a close relative with Autism or something. Otherwise, they can't have the empathy. They just look at someone who is Autistic and think, ''oh, they're weird, keep away from them and exclude them from our gang!'' If that is empathy, then what isn't? If NTs were empathetic, they'd look at an Autistic and think, ''I can easily imagine what it must be like to be that person, so maybe I will give them a chance.'' |
That is an amazing point. I personally feel like I have empathy for people who feel sad, or hurt, or helpless... But I have no empathy for bullies, or those who cause pain to others, because I don't know what it's like to be in their shoes. I really think you're onto something there.  |
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EXPECIALLY
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Joe90 wrote: | This proves that lack of empathy is not an Autistic trait. I don't know why so many people believe it, and I don't know why so many non-Autistics make out that lack of empathy is an Autistic trait without taking a look at themselves first.
The majority of NTs only tend to feel empathy for someone else if they have had similar experiences themselves. Otherwise, they don't want to know. If universal empathy was a NT trait, then Autistics would be much more socially accepted or understood. NTs who can feel for Autistics are those who perhaps have a close relative with Autism or something. Otherwise, they can't have the empathy. They just look at someone who is Autistic and think, ''oh, they're weird, keep away from them and exclude them from our gang!'' If that is empathy, then what isn't? If NTs were empathetic, they'd look at an Autistic and think, ''I can easily imagine what it must be like to be that person, so maybe I will give them a chance.'' |
This is exactly what it is. It's projection.
IDGI, thought/emotional projection and empathy are opposite is some ways, aren't they?
NT women are said to be the most empathetic-NT women are known for projecting their own emotional states onto others more so than anyone else. Look it up, even psychs say so.
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arko5
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:16 am Post subject: |
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I think there's two aspects to empathy, you first have to detect an emotion is present in another person and then feel the empathetic response. With autism the ability to detect the emotions (though body language/intonation etc) is impaired thus we may appear to show no empathy, but if the emotion is detected autistic people can be just as caring as any NT (although their responses may not always be 100% appropriate). In contrast a sociopath can typically detect emotions (sometimes better than average) yet either choose to ignore them or even use them to their advantage, that is true lack of empathy.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| arko5 wrote: | | I think there's two aspects to empathy, you first have to detect an emotion is present in another person and then feel the empathetic response. With autism the ability to detect the emotions (though body language/intonation etc) is impaired thus we may appear to show no empathy, but if the emotion is detected autistic people can be just as caring as any NT (although their responses may not always be 100% appropriate). In contrast a sociopath can typically detect emotions (sometimes better than average) yet either choose to ignore them or even use them to their advantage, that is true lack of empathy. |
This is true, alos cognitive V affective empathy. I don't know the strict definitions for either.
I think most NTs are able to detect and impaired in what I consider "real" empathy-actually feeling what other people feel.
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OliveOilMom
Queen of cans and jars
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:56 am Post subject: |
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Socially impaired is like Tom Hanks in "Big" when he went to that party with the girl, before he had sex. It's like Dudly Moore in Arthur in almost the entire movie. It's like Bluto in Animal House. Hell, it's like everybody at the Delta House in Animal House. I don't imagine we are going out doing things to quite that extent.
Although I'd dearly love to go to a party like in Big and see somebody dressed like he was. I'd make a beeline to talk to him!
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Joe90
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| EXPECIALLY wrote: | | Joe90 wrote: | This proves that lack of empathy is not an Autistic trait. I don't know why so many people believe it, and I don't know why so many non-Autistics make out that lack of empathy is an Autistic trait without taking a look at themselves first.
The majority of NTs only tend to feel empathy for someone else if they have had similar experiences themselves. Otherwise, they don't want to know. If universal empathy was a NT trait, then Autistics would be much more socially accepted or understood. NTs who can feel for Autistics are those who perhaps have a close relative with Autism or something. Otherwise, they can't have the empathy. They just look at someone who is Autistic and think, ''oh, they're weird, keep away from them and exclude them from our gang!'' If that is empathy, then what isn't? If NTs were empathetic, they'd look at an Autistic and think, ''I can easily imagine what it must be like to be that person, so maybe I will give them a chance.'' |
This is exactly what it is. It's projection.
IDGI, thought/emotional projection and empathy are opposite is some ways, aren't they?
NT women are said to be the most empathetic-NT women are known for projecting their own emotional states onto others more so than anyone else. Look it up, even psychs say so. |
Women are more empathetic than men. Although women can be judgemental to eachother in a bitchy way, it's not so much to do with empathy. I seem to get more men criticising me over things what most women would understand me over, as though men just haven't got a clue and some are hypocrits.
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Jtuk
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe90 wrote: | This proves that lack of empathy is not an Autistic trait. I don't know why so many people believe it, and I don't know why so many non-Autistics make out that lack of empathy is an Autistic trait without taking a look at themselves first.
The majority of NTs only tend to feel empathy for someone else if they have had similar experiences themselves. Otherwise, they don't want to know. If universal empathy was a NT trait, then Autistics would be much more socially accepted or understood. NTs who can feel for Autistics are those who perhaps have a close relative with Autism or something. Otherwise, they can't have the empathy. They just look at someone who is Autistic and think, ''oh, they're weird, keep away from them and exclude them from our gang!'' If that is empathy, then what isn't? If NTs were empathetic, they'd look at an Autistic and think, ''I can easily imagine what it must be like to be that person, so maybe I will give them a chance.'' |
I kind of agree and disagree with your second point. The typical aspie will flag some subconscious signals that they are not quite right. The difficulty for anyone who picks up on this is that they can't tell exactly what's wrong. The typical aspie then can't also spot that this has happened and provide any re-assurance or compensating words or actions.
This isn't anyones fault, this is the condition.
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EXPECIALLY
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 21, 2011
Age: 29
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe90 wrote: | | EXPECIALLY wrote: | | Joe90 wrote: | This proves that lack of empathy is not an Autistic trait. I don't know why so many people believe it, and I don't know why so many non-Autistics make out that lack of empathy is an Autistic trait without taking a look at themselves first.
The majority of NTs only tend to feel empathy for someone else if they have had similar experiences themselves. Otherwise, they don't want to know. If universal empathy was a NT trait, then Autistics would be much more socially accepted or understood. NTs who can feel for Autistics are those who perhaps have a close relative with Autism or something. Otherwise, they can't have the empathy. They just look at someone who is Autistic and think, ''oh, they're weird, keep away from them and exclude them from our gang!'' If that is empathy, then what isn't? If NTs were empathetic, they'd look at an Autistic and think, ''I can easily imagine what it must be like to be that person, so maybe I will give them a chance.'' |
This is exactly what it is. It's projection.
IDGI, thought/emotional projection and empathy are opposite is some ways, aren't they?
NT women are said to be the most empathetic-NT women are known for projecting their own emotional states onto others more so than anyone else. Look it up, even psychs say so. |
Women are more empathetic than men. Although women can be judgemental to eachother in a bitchy way, it's not so much to do with empathy. I seem to get more men criticising me over things what most women would understand me over, as though men just haven't got a clue and some are hypocrits. |
Honest to God-only people who have actually understand and detected my real feelings have been NT men. Women have always projected their feelings on me, even in every day conversation that has nothing to do with me I see them do it.
It' not necessarily bad but I think it's false to call them the most empathetic sex for this reason. I think NT men might just be more skilled ta this.
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glider18
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Joined: Nov 09, 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject: empathy |
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I have empathy. I feel compassion for when bad things happen to people I know---the problem for me is overcoming the awkwardness of showing the compassion for that person. It's difficult for me to tell people how I feel about them. My therapist suggested I script out things. But then I feel like I am just acting out something, but as he said, I am then acting out what is already inside me---then it's awkward again.
I cannot say however that I truly feel the depth of empathy that the typical NT feels. I do know I was a sobbing mess when my grandparents were killed in a car wreck years ago. It's like I sometimes have too much emotion, and sometimes too little---and getting it just right is difficult.
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Saturn
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Joined: Dec 24, 2011
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: It's not that we are socially impaired... |
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| Tyazii wrote: | | It's that NTs are simply seeing and imagining things that aren't there. We should diagnose them all with insanity and put them all in Psychiatric hospitals. |
Perhaps the things that you imagine 'NTs' to be seeing and imagining that you imagine are not really there, are just as much a reality for those people as your subjective experience is a reality for you. While I can feel that my own subjectivity is denied by some of the things that I encounter in the world, I think that to deny the subjectivity of others by refusing to recognise their outlook as valid, is a step toward denying subjectivity in general and thus also oneself. |
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