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myth
Phoenix
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Age: 27
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 Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:45 am Post subject: |
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Awesome, masculism does exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism
I'm definately on board with that as a counter to feminism. There should be more awareness about this, imo. I never heard of this word before I "invented" it myself yesterday.
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HisDivineMajesty
Carolingian Emperor Extraordinaire
Joined: Feb 01, 2012
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Location: Planet Earth
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| I've heard about it before - I've also read up on it intensively, and I agree with it. |
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MissConstrue
~Meow Clawdius~
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Masculinism as opposed instead of equal with feminism...I can already see where this is going...
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myth
Phoenix
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Age: 27
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:17 am Post subject: |
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Should men not have advocates of their rights?
Who said "opposed to" ?
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Last edited by myth on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ArrantPariah
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Posts: 4834
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| myth wrote: | | Should men not have advocates of their rights? |
Of course not. That would be sexist. Akin to having an organization that promoted rights for white people. |
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myth
Phoenix
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Age: 27
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:25 am Post subject: |
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I'm assuming that comment is tongue-in-cheek?
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MissConstrue
~Meow Clawdius~
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| myth wrote: | Should men not have advocates of their rights?
Who said "opposed to" ? |
You said counter to and HisDivineMajesty has made it clear he's against feminism pure and simple. I certainly never said men should not have rights. In fact I made it pretty clear as I said before equal with not counter to.
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myth
Phoenix
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Compare the opening sentences from the two Wikipeda pages:
Feminism
| Quote: | | Feminism is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.[ |
Masculism
| Quote: | | Masculism (or masculinism) may refer to political, cultural, and economic movements aimed at establishing and defending political, economic, and social rights and participation in society for men and boys. |
People on this thread keep saying that feminism is about equality. Yes. Equality for women. If there's going to be one for women, there should be someone keeping an eye on the rights for men too. Counter = equal in this case imo. Like checks and balances.
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MissConstrue
~Meow Clawdius~
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Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| myth wrote: | Compare the opening sentences from the two Wikipeda pages:
Feminism
| Quote: | | Feminism is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.[ |
Masculism
| Quote: | | Masculism (or masculinism) may refer to political, cultural, and economic movements aimed at establishing and defending political, economic, and social rights and participation in society for men and boys. |
People on this thread keep saying that feminism is about equality. Yes. Equality for women. If there's going to be one for women, there should be someone keeping an eye on the rights for men too. Counter = equal in this case imo. Like checks and balances. |
Feminism is about equality with men not against men. It seems to me most people have this attitude that women want power rather than equality or at least as far as rights are concerned. I'm for men's rights in terms of equality but women ruling over men is certainly not in my agenda nor was it when the movement was first established.
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Last edited by MissConstrue on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| myth wrote: | Awesome, masculism does exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism
I'm definately on board with that as a counter to feminism. There should be more awareness about this, imo. I never heard of this word before I "invented" it myself yesterday. |
The problem with feminism is that the word and concepts behind it immediately put men in a negative light. Men are considered guilty, and the rest is details. It's a dumb attitude. How about everyone treating each other fairly, sexual identity neither being a badge of honor nor an implication of guilt? Why pick some classification of people, and then endeavor to promote those people over the other people in various ways? That's just dumb. Do to others as you would have them do to you.
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MissConstrue
~Meow Clawdius~
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Ragtime wrote: | | myth wrote: | Awesome, masculism does exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism
I'm definately on board with that as a counter to feminism. There should be more awareness about this, imo. I never heard of this word before I "invented" it myself yesterday. |
The problem with feminism is that the word and concepts behind it immediately put men in a negative light. Men are considered guilty, and the rest is details. It's a dumb attitude. How about everyone treating each other fairly, sexual identity neither being a badge of honor nor an implication of guilt? Why pick some classification of people, and then endeavor to promote those people over the other people in various ways? That's just dumb. Do to others as you would have them do to you. |
Seems to me in a society that didn't allow women the right to vote where women had to work for this basic right and in society that still has the notion that women who want equality are good for nothing feminazis...are looked at in a bad light. Just sayin. I certainly don't view all men in a bad light and I don't see that all feminists ie women who are for equal rights in societies that are male dominated, as man haters but that is the common stereotype just as many others ie b***h, slut, skank, whore..etc.
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| CrazyCatLord wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | people make a choice - have sex and risk pregnancy, or don't have sex and have no risk at all. i personally don't care if people have sex or not, but if a couple has sex and the birth control accidentally fails, they are both responsible. |
I ultimately agree with that, on the basis that both parents have to take financial responsibility and only the woman can decide if she wants to have the child, since she is the one who is pregnant. But the "have sex and risk pregnancy" argument doesn't really sit well with me.
The same argument is used by conservatives who argue against abortion. They too view pregnancy as a risk of having sex and demand that women take responsibility for their mistake / accident / sin by carrying an unplanned embryo or fetus to term, no matter how inconvenient or medically ill-advised it might be. In this case, it is obvious that the argument is insulting and degrading. Women shouldn't be punished for having sex. But neither should men be punished, imho.
Of course we can't force women to abort because the father of the fetus doesn't want the financial responsibility. The high cost of raising a child is a general problem that also affects low-income families, who would love to have children but can't afford them. The solution is obvious and logically follows from the so-called intergenerational contract.
In times when children were the only form of old-age insurance, it made sense for parents to pay for their own children (who were also used as cheap laborers and farmhands from an early age). Nowadays, we have taken things to a larger scale. Children no longer provide for their parents and grandparents; instead, retirees are provided and cared for by the entire workforce of younger generations. Since we collectively benefit from everybody's offspring, it is only fair that a nation collectively pays for its children.
This would go a long way towards creating more socio-economic equality and equal educational opportunities, as well as more gender equality. Many children are raised by single mothers, and the meager alimony payments of low-income fathers -- which might not always arrive on time or sometimes not at all, or the checks turn out to be bad -- don't even begin to cover the cost of raising a child. So in the end, many mothers pay the lion's share of child support. This shouldn't be the case.
Socialized child care would also provide a great incentive for couples in countries with low birth rates. And it is consistent with the idea that children are persons with human rights, not the property of their parents. Children are essentially citizens who are unable to provide for themselves, and they should be financially supported just like any other member of society who can't earn a living. In my opinion, this makes a lot more sense than tax breaks for married couples who may or may not have children. |
sounds like a great idea. i love it.
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| AspieRogue wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | AspieRogue wrote: | | Do you not realize that if a child is born out of wedlock, family courts give custody of the children to the mother by default UNLESS the father can prove that the mother is unfit to care for the child(ren)? That is a big reason why there are so many single mothers. |
do you have a source for that? |
Here. It states that only 20.3% of fathers awarded custody were unmarried to the child's mother at the time of conception. And in South Carolina, the mom gets custody by default and the father's only recourse to get custody of his kid(s) is to petition a judge. And he better have a good reason why he should get custody and not her. |
your first statistic only told us how many men got custody, not how many men tried for it.
for the second statistic, i don't understand what you are complaining about - it doesn't make sense for *either* parent to have full custody by default. that link you provided said this:
| Quote: | | The mother and father are the joint natural guardians of their minor children and are equally charged with the welfare and education of their minor children and the care and management of the estates of their minor children; and the mother and father have equal power, rights, and duties, and neither parent has any right paramount to the right of the other concerning the custody of the minor or the control of the services or the earnings of the minor or any other matter affecting the minor. Each parent, whether the custodial or noncustodial parent of the child, has equal access and the same right to obtain all educational records and medical records of their minor children and the right to participate in their children’s school activities unless prohibited by order of the court. Neither parent shall forcibly take a child from the guardianship of the parent legally entitled to custody of the child. |
that sounds like equal rights to me so i don't see your issue with that.
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
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Age: 23
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Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| MissConstrue wrote: | | Ragtime wrote: | | myth wrote: | Awesome, masculism does exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism
I'm definately on board with that as a counter to feminism. There should be more awareness about this, imo. I never heard of this word before I "invented" it myself yesterday. |
The problem with feminism is that the word and concepts behind it immediately put men in a negative light. Men are considered guilty, and the rest is details. It's a dumb attitude. How about everyone treating each other fairly, sexual identity neither being a badge of honor nor an implication of guilt? Why pick some classification of people, and then endeavor to promote those people over the other people in various ways? That's just dumb. Do to others as you would have them do to you. |
Seems to me in a society that didn't allow women the right to vote where women had to work for this basic right and in society that still has the notion that women who want equality are good for nothing feminazis...are looked at in a bad light. Just sayin. I certainly don't view all men in a bad light and I don't see that all feminists ie women who are for equal rights in societies that are male dominated, as man haters but that is the common stereotype just as many others ie b***h, slut, skank, whore..etc. |
I don't think anyone here has really used words like that towards feminists, I think people are just trying to explain why they don't like the idea......or maybe even trying to understand it more. That was mostly what I did, only to get ridiculed because apparently all feminsims means is rejecting gender roles which makes no bloody sense to me since from what I've heard it seems a lot more then that. Not to mention one does not have to be a 'feminist' to not believe people should not have to follow social gender roles or whatever.
I don't know trying to force an ideology on someone because maybe they agree with some views some people in that ideology might believe is not a very good way to recruit people for the feminist movement.
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