This folks are enemies of the State and have no rights than the Israeli government is bound to recognize.
ruveyn
Spoken like a true "libertarian", eh?
When the thugs come with the bombs and the rockets force has been initiated. Libertarians are NOT pacifists.
ruveyn
The Israelis initiated this conflict, when they begged for the west to give them land that isn't there's. The Israelis are the ones with no legal rights.
They didn't initiate the conflict, they inherited the land, a gift from God! _________________ *some atheist walks outside and picks up stick*
Joined: Sep 22, 2008 Age: 76 Posts: 29332 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:48 am Post subject:
abacacus wrote:
The Israelis initiated this conflict, when they begged for the west to give them land that isn't there's. The Israelis are the ones with no legal rights.
The ancestors of the arabic speaking people of the area took the area by force (in the past). The area was governed by the Turkish Ottoman empire (by force) prior to the Great War. Everyone who lives in that area either occupies it by force or has an ancestor who occupied it by force.
Land belongs to those who possess it and can maintain the possession against all adverse claims and efforts, by force if necessary.
You can say the same thing about the people of the United States who are not descendants of aboriginals who came to an unoccupied continent over the land bridge from Asia.
The Palestinians actually have a birthrate higher than the Israelis and their numbers continue to increase. Some genocide.
That's not even what I was saying. I was saying that just because something was done in the past doesn't make it right to continue doing in the future. _________________ *some atheist walks outside and picks up stick*
Here is my opinion on the subject: When two Palestinian mothers talk about their sons, I could imagine that at some point, one says to the other "they blow up so quickly, don't they?"
Other than that, I don't really care. I won't take a side in a complex and multifaceted conflict that doesn't really concern me.
Here is my opinion on the subject: When two Palestinian mothers talk about their sons, I could imagine that at some point, one says to the other "they blow up so quickly, don't they?"
And American mothers can do the same over their sons & daughters in Iraq. We HONOR our fighters who died in Middle East wars; shouldn't they? War is war. The U.S. & Israel are not morally superior to the Palestinians, who have a legitimate right to resist occupation. Besides, this isn't exactly a fair fight. We deliver our explosives (through our Israeli proxies) to the Palestinian Arabs with bomber jets & guided missiles. They deliver theirs through suicide bombers & homemade rockets. Always there are many times more casualties on their side than ours. To lift a phrase from Donald Rumsfeld, "you fight with the army you have, not the one you wish you had".
I am always an advocate for peace & understanding. But to end this conflict, it has to be a just peace, not domination of one side over the other.
Joined: Jan 07, 2011 Age: 23 Posts: 14828 Location: Somewhere in Colorado
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:11 am Post subject:
Billybones wrote:
CrazyCatLord wrote:
Here is my opinion on the subject: When two Palestinian mothers talk about their sons, I could imagine that at some point, one says to the other "they blow up so quickly, don't they?"
And American mothers can do the same over their sons & daughters in Iraq. We HONOR our fighters who died in Middle East wars; shouldn't they? War is war. The U.S. & Israel are not morally superior to the Palestinians, who have a legitimate right to resist occupation. Besides, this isn't exactly a fair fight. We deliver our explosives (through our Israeli proxies) to the Palestinian Arabs with bomber jets & guided missiles. They deliver theirs through suicide bombers & homemade rockets. Always there are many times more casualties on their side than ours. To lift a phrase from Donald Rumsfeld, "you fight with the army you have, not the one you wish you had".
I am always an advocate for peace & understanding. But to end this conflict, it has to be a just peace, not domination of one side over the other.
Agreed, except that sure we might honor our fighters who died....but what about the ones who return alive. From my understanding the government gives the impression that they really don't give a crap. At least that is how a lot of people who return feel. _________________ It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream.
Joined: Jul 11, 2008 Age: 33 Posts: 2926 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:33 am Post subject:
Billybones wrote:
CrazyCatLord wrote:
Here is my opinion on the subject: When two Palestinian mothers talk about their sons, I could imagine that at some point, one says to the other "they blow up so quickly, don't they?"
And American mothers can do the same over their sons & daughters in Iraq. We HONOR our fighters who died in Middle East wars; shouldn't they? War is war. The U.S. & Israel are not morally superior to the Palestinians, who have a legitimate right to resist occupation. Besides, this isn't exactly a fair fight. We deliver our explosives (through our Israeli proxies) to the Palestinian Arabs with bomber jets & guided missiles. They deliver theirs through suicide bombers & homemade rockets. Always there are many times more casualties on their side than ours. To lift a phrase from Donald Rumsfeld, "you fight with the army you have, not the one you wish you had".
I am always an advocate for peace & understanding. But to end this conflict, it has to be a just peace, not domination of one side over the other.
Suicide bombers that that target Israeli civilians and rockets that target civilian areas. As long as they target Israeli civilians, Israel has a right to defend itself. As far as the occupation goes, maybe if they stop attacking Israelis, then they'll stop losing land. Israel does attack them for no reason, it's usually in reaction to rocket fire in civilian areas or suicide bombers. They got control of the occupied territories during the 1967 after several Arab states attacked them first.
Joined: Jan 07, 2011 Age: 23 Posts: 14828 Location: Somewhere in Colorado
Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:51 pm Post subject:
Jono wrote:
Billybones wrote:
CrazyCatLord wrote:
Here is my opinion on the subject: When two Palestinian mothers talk about their sons, I could imagine that at some point, one says to the other "they blow up so quickly, don't they?"
And American mothers can do the same over their sons & daughters in Iraq. We HONOR our fighters who died in Middle East wars; shouldn't they? War is war. The U.S. & Israel are not morally superior to the Palestinians, who have a legitimate right to resist occupation. Besides, this isn't exactly a fair fight. We deliver our explosives (through our Israeli proxies) to the Palestinian Arabs with bomber jets & guided missiles. They deliver theirs through suicide bombers & homemade rockets. Always there are many times more casualties on their side than ours. To lift a phrase from Donald Rumsfeld, "you fight with the army you have, not the one you wish you had".
I am always an advocate for peace & understanding. But to end this conflict, it has to be a just peace, not domination of one side over the other.
Suicide bombers that that target Israeli civilians and rockets that target civilian areas. As long as they target Israeli civilians, Israel has a right to defend itself.
A right to defend itself or shoot rockets at civilian areas? regardless of how many civilians are in the area?
As far as the occupation goes, maybe if they stop attacking Israelis, then they'll stop losing land. Israel does attack them for no reason, it's usually in reaction to rocket fire in civilian areas or suicide bombers. They got control of the occupied territories during the 1967 after several Arab states attacked them first.
Also maybe if Isreal would quit taking land by force the palastinians might not be so pissed off about that and feel the need to resort to extremes like terrorism. Israel is not justified in everything it does anymore than the Palestinian terrorists are. _________________ It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream.
Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 26054 Location: Lancashire, UK
Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Also maybe if Isreal would quit taking land by force the palastinians might not be so pissed off about that and feel the need to resort to extremes like terrorism.
The extremists don't want peace. They want hate and violence and fear and terror and to keep the conflict going. The Israelis would be happy to give the Palestinians their own state but they have refused peace numerous times.
And I hope you're not trying to excuse Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians - i.e. normal people here?
How would you like it if someone claimed that murdering people in support of a right-wing political cause like anti-abortionism was justified?
Joined: Jan 07, 2011 Age: 23 Posts: 14828 Location: Somewhere in Colorado
Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:06 pm Post subject:
Tequila wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Also maybe if Isreal would quit taking land by force the palastinians might not be so pissed off about that and feel the need to resort to extremes like terrorism.
The extremists don't want peace. They want hate and violence and fear and terror and to keep the conflict going. The Israelis would be happy to give the Palestinians their own state but they have refused peace numerous times.
And I hope you're not trying to excuse Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians - i.e. normal people here?
How would you like it if someone claimed that murdering people in support of a right-wing political cause like anti-abortionism was justified?
Well clearly Israel doesn't want peace either. also where did I claim it's ok to murder anyone? _________________ It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream.
Joined: Oct 17, 2009 Age: 45 Posts: 5754 Location: Vancouver, BC
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject:
I would argue that Israel wants peace--but she only wants a durable, sustainable peace.
It is pointless to buy off the Palestinians with land and cash only to have the Palestinians descend into a frenzy of internecine fighting that will necessarily spill over into Israel.
Israel's interest lie in a stable, democratic Palestine with a government that has sufficient popular support and credibility to police her own people. And only the most blinkered observer would suggest that we are anywhere close to that, today. _________________ --James
