Dox47
Consigliere
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 5344
Location: Seattle Area
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 Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: The other side of the Trayvon Martin story... |
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| AspieRogue wrote: | Internet = SRS BZNS!  |
Serious enough to you to troll Browning about apparently. I'll take your (non)response as ceding the point.
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The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. - H L Mencken |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29709
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: The other side of the Trayvon Martin story... |
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| AspieRogue wrote: |
Zimmerman is not exactly white, ruveyn...... |
But he is overweight and not overly black. By comparison he is a honkey cracker.
ruveyn |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 34
Posts: 9770
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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I guess you can't defend yourself in this country anymore. The Black Panthers openly called for bloodshed, but of course no action is taken. Figures.
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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Ragtime wrote: | | I guess you can't defend yourself in this country anymore. The Black Panthers openly called for bloodshed, but of course no action is taken. Figures. |
If you faced four hundered years of oppression in America you would call for the same thing. |
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simon_says
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 21, 2011
Posts: 2443
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like they may argue that it was Martin crying, not Zimmerman. We'll see what evidence they have. They also mentioned the girlfriend, who has a different story than Zimmerman's version. If a jury believes Zimmerman lied, well... he's in trouble.
Assuming it makes it to trial. |
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aghogday
KATiE MiA
Joined: Nov 26, 2010
Posts: 4813
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: The other side of the Trayvon Martin story... |
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| Dox47 wrote: | | AspieRogue wrote: | | Do you REALLY think Zimmerman is not guilty of 2nd degree murder? |
It doesn't matter if I think he's guilty or not, what matters is that to you rape is apparently an acceptable punishment for someone you think is guilty, and to me it's never acceptable, period. Don't get me wrong, I'll make rape jokes all day long, but this unfortunately prevalent "rape is never ok, unless it's gay prison rape in which case it's hilarious" thing bugs the sh*t out of me. |
I would agree that rape is never acceptable, and would hope that society never considers rape jokes as a mainstream acceptable form of humor. The jokes do seem to be more prevalent now, with the anonymity that the internet provides. The novelty of the humiliation of the prison joke, wore off decades ago.
There is another "aspie friendly" site, where some people left with no moderation, believe that pictures of mutilated animals are humurous.
A recent longitudinal study suggested that self-reports of empathy among college age students has dropped dramatically in the last 30 years. Particularly in the last decade. It is becoming more obvious as time goes by, reflected in media content.
Anyway, here's a view from an individual that believes that rape jokes are not an innocuous form of humor, that provides supporting evidence for the opinion.
http://www.care2.com/causes/rape-jokes-are-no-laughing-matter.html
| Quote: | To all those men who don’t think the rape jokes are a problem:
I get it—you’re a decent guy. I can even believe it. You’ve never raped anybody. You would NEVER rape anybody. You’re upset that all these feminists are trying to accuse you of doing something, or connect you to doing something, that, as far as you’re concerned, you’ve never done and would never condone.
And they’ve told you about triggers, and PTSD, and how one in six women is a survivor, and you get it. You do. But you can’t let every time someone gets all upset get in the way of you having a good time, right? Especially when it doesn’t mean anything. Rape jokes have never made YOU go out and rape someone. They never would; they never could. You just don’t see how it matters.
I’m going to tell you how it does matter. And I tell you this because I genuinely believe you mean it when you say you don’t want to hurt anybody, and that it’s important to you to do your best to be a decent and good person, and that you don’t see the harm. And I genuinely believe you when you say you would never associate with a rapist and you think rape really is a very bad thing.
Here is why I refuse to take rape jokes sitting down…
Because 6% of college-aged men, slightly over 1 in 20, will admit to raping someone in anonymous surveys, as long as the word “rape” isn’t used in the description of the act—and that’s the conservative estimate. Other sources double that number (pdf).
A lot of people accuse feminists of thinking that all men are rapists. That’s not true. But do you know who think all men are rapists?
Rapists do.
They really do. In psychological study, the profiling, the studies, it comes out again and again.
Virtually all rapists genuinely believe that all men rape, and other men just keep it hushed up better. And more, these people who really are rapists are constantly reaffirmed in their belief about the rest of mankind being rapists like them by things like rape jokes, that dismiss and normalize the idea of rape.
If one in twenty guys (or more) is a real and true rapist, and you have any amount of social activity with other guys like yourself, then it is almost a statistical certainty that one time hanging out with friends and their friends, playing Halo with a bunch of guys online, in a WoW guild, in a pick-up game of basketball, at a bar, or elsewhere, you were talking to a rapist. Not your fault. You can’t tell a rapist apart any better than anyone else can. It’s not like they announce themselves.
But, here’s the thing. It’s very likely that in some of these interactions with these guys, at some point or another, someone told a rape joke. You, decent guy that you are, understood that they didn’t mean it, and it was just a joke. And so you laughed.
Or maybe you didn’t laugh. Maybe it just wasn’t a very funny joke. So maybe you just didn’t say anything at all.
And, decent guy who would never condone rape, who would step in and stop rape if he saw it, who understands that rape is awful and wrong and bad, when you laughed? When you were silent?
That rapist who was in the group with you, that rapist thought that you were on his side. That rapist knew that you were a rapist like him. And he felt validated, and he felt he was among his comrades.
You. The rapist’s comrade.
And if that doesn’t make you feel sick to your stomach, if that doesn’t make you want to throw up, if that doesn’t disturb you or bother you or make you feel like maybe you should at least consider not participating in that kind of humor anymore, not abiding it in your presence, not greeting it with silence…
Well, maybe you aren’t as opposed to rapists as you claim. |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 34
Posts: 9770
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | Ragtime wrote: | | I guess you can't defend yourself in this country anymore. The Black Panthers openly called for bloodshed, but of course no action is taken. Figures. |
If you faced four hundered years of oppression in America you would call for the same thing. |
I would be calling for mass racial slaughter of innocents in the streets? I don't think so. My people have experienced 430 years slavery in Egypt, many were killed in the Crusades, they were targeted and killed in pogroms in Russia, and then one-third of the world's population of my people were tortured and killed in the Holocaust just last century in the "civilized world". Doesn't mean I'm ready to explode and kill someone -- particularly someone who didn't have anything to do with it.
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Tadzio
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 03, 2009
Age: 60
Posts: 877
Location: Banned-4-Epilepsy, USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:12 am Post subject: Re: So Triggered, Stand Your Ground Silky Wipes Fail Backers |
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| Tadzio wrote: | | Dox47 wrote: | | AspieRogue wrote: | COOL STORY, BRO!
How does it feel that your beloved folk hero just got busted? Zimmerman was lying through his teeth to the media about what REALLY happened. Funny how pictures of him afterwards show no sign of head injuries or any sort of physical trauma consistent with the assault he claims was inflicted upon him by Trayvon. As much as I believe in self-defense and SYG, this chump was doing neither of the sort. Also, you really don't seem to know much about this guy do you? He already has a criminal record and a history of getting physically out of control. Call it character assassination, but the truth about this man and who he really is has finally come out. He's far from the upstanding citizen that american conservatives have tried so hard to make him out to be. You can hope that he gets off, but that is highly unlikely. Man, I'm sure that his butt cheeks are clenched real tight now considering all the brothas in there who are itching for his behind.  |
How does it feel to be a guy that gets all gleeful about the sexual assault of an as yet unproven guilty person? Or even of a proven guilty person, for that matter. |
Hi Dox47,
You previously answered your own questions:
| Tadzio wrote: | | Dox47 wrote: | Here you go Tadzio, since your selective understanding of idioms seems to still be troubling you so much, go ahead and fill this out and submit it:
Picture resized
I'm sure people will take your claims far more seriously if put into this form. |
Hi Dox47,
Sorry to hear about your very frequent need to utilize your official bu******forms. I am very glad not to be your proctologist.
Your being so sure with your proffered advice has no foundation, as your astronomical submissions of your form hasn't seem to have had sufficient beneficial results for you to be noticeable of experiencing any benefit, other than more possible irritation for the attempted seemingly failing macho effect.
Your occult pain may be the top factor of irritability with you preferring SYG over sitting.
At least you should be well protected from any challenge to your record book standing of filing your SPUBBA complaints & remedial ointment volume discount forms.
Your SYG support will continue to fail after careful and rational review.
Tadzio |
which followed:
SUBJECT: Prevarications Through Slick Wording Used By SYG Backers
| Tadzio wrote: | | ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote: | | I agree with Stand Your Ground laws. It's about time somebody recognized that people should not be punished for defending themselves and fighting back. If someone comes up to you and wants to beat the crap out of you, you can fight back and not have to go to jail. Sounds like an awesome law to me. It protects the vulnerable and maybe bullies will think twice about coming up with their fists if they know such a law exists and they can get seriously injured or killed and the person defending themself will not face any penalties. It should be like that in schools, too. The person who tries to avoid the fight at all costs should never face punishment for simply standing their ground when under a threat. |
Hi ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo,
Under the law before the new 2005 "Stand Your Ground" Law, any "person who tries to avoid the fight at all costs" would have already been protected from facing punishment. The 2005 "Stand Your Ground Law" removed ANY AND ALL duty to "try to avoid the fight". For instance, in the 2011 SAAVEDRA case, the judge noted (page 8 ): "Under current Florida law, the Defendant had no duty to retreat, but, even so, the evidence clearly shows that the Defendant did, in fact, retreat in several ways and was legally entitled to meet force with force, even deadly force."
http://media.naplesnews.com/media/static/20111230150108.pdf
Individuals with autism are 50 times more likely to be shot by a private citizen than shot by a police officer.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/deaths_2009_release.pdf
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_15.html
Calling such homicides by private citizens as "Stand Your Ground" Self-Defense shootings with complete Immunity is outrageous.
When a "legal gun carrier" uses the gun in the commission of a crime, the "gun carrier" has just lost the rubric of "legal gun carrier", so a deceptive polemic is stating that no "legal gun carrier" has committed any criminal gun act.
Some "pseudo" would-be SYG'ers go as far as to make claims like:
"I can change reality with my words; it's called persuasion, lobbying and activism",
as during when they try every tool of verbal prevarication they think will might work in twisting the truth to fit to their point of view. When I noted in one response that the manipulation of words had tended to result in incorrect facts, to absurdities, I received the response:
"As a rule I don't like to club baby seals, it's unseemly and tiring on the wrists, but if you insist on nipping at my heels all the time I might just indulge you,"
Mod. edit to correct misquote and restore omitted text: "In plain English: Keep insulting me personally and I will return the favor."
and, a majority of people at a local university I asked about the intensity of the remark, took it as a threat of deadly violence.
No SYG from wrists concerns then, but any SYG with free speech & right to political opinions, etc., leads to third-party involvement desired suddenly by the bully with the tendency to indulge in clubbing baby seals.
Tadzio |
The "rule" that everybody forgets everything in 48 hours is not a "correct" rule. Something to do with such as Galatians 6:7, isn't it??? Like maybe including "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." Then, I'm the one receiving demands to write a new bible, after the Aeneid and the Satyricon!!!! (No Ayn Rand).
Of The Holy Iurodivyi,
Tadzio |
Hello mod edit:
The whole quoted paragraph included the sentence "Yes, we’re beating the Trayvon story to death worse than Rodney King in a baby seal costume." You must have assumed the quoted sentence duplicated in another post on WrongPlanet was "unique" to WrongPlanet. While most objectionable remarks are quickly redacted, or totally removed, on the other websites, the "club baby seals" part was quickly removed, leaving the "baby seal costume" part on some very "objectionable & racist" websites (the web address is such also on ones remaining in search results, excluding older ones, not currently involved, with remaining offensive statements such as "Love that vivid imagery of clubbing baby seals and Rodney King."(2005)).
Sometimes there are bizarre coincidences that aren't extremely highly unlikely, and other times, there are identicals that are so unlikely as not to be not much possible coincidentals.
Research on WrongPlanet of my Posts were claimed to have been performed, but the citations included unique wordings from websites involving epilepsy.
Now weighting both prejudicial, old and new, hostilities, together:
| Dox47 wrote: | | Hanlon's Razor states : Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity, but when faced with a guy who's main argumentative tool is Google who only seems to misunderstand idioms when he thinks he can turn them against someone, I'm going to go with malice. I believe you know exactly what I mean by butthurt, Tadzio (Google knows), as you're making an excellent display of it right now, just as I'm sure you understood my previous idiom for counter-insulting, especially as I explained that one in plain text, which you always conveniently leave out when (mis)quoting me. Now I'm not particularly concerned about poorly constructed insults being attempted at my expense, but following someone around a forum perpetuating a vendetta is sorta frowned upon around here, so you might want to just stick to the subject matter in the future. |
| Dox47 wrote: | | Tadzio wrote: | | Dox47 wrote: | | simon_says wrote: | | The NRA is behind a lot these pushes. They arent shy about it. Maybe you feel that if you line up enough words you can change reality. Good luck with that. |
Did I say the NRA was not behind anything? What I said was "what does it matter?". See, I tend to evaluate ideas independently of their source and partisan alignment; I don't care who came up with the idea, only whether or not it's a good one. You on the other hand, seem to think that the mere presence of the NRA somehow "taints" the idea, though the exact mechanism you seem to be imagining is illusive to me.
Also, I can change reality with my words; it's called persuasion, lobbying and activism. Here though, I'm just having fun.
| simon_says wrote: | | For reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum on this forum. You choose to ignore it. Again, good luck. |
Can you not tell the difference between ignoring something and disputing it? For a guy who keeps insisting that none of this means anything, you're sure being stubborn about playing out your (willful?) misunderstanding of self defense law (see my handy posts explaining it all in both TM threads).
| simon_says wrote: | | Gun users and self-defense invokers should not get special rights. |
Who said anything about "special rights"? I asked you if you thought that people wrongfully prosecuted over self defense incidents should have to pay their own legal fees or be reimbursed by the state, and you said yes. I asked if you really meant that using plainer language, and you deflect with this "special rights" distraction. SYG and other self defense shield laws are universally applicable, no one is getting anything anyone else isn't and that kind of kills your idea of "special" right there.
Hmm, "special rights" that apply to everyone? Sounds an awful lot like the conservative objection to gay marriage, doesn't it?
| simon_says wrote: | | Again we come back to the different views of justice. And the NRA was behind this law. That's just a fact. I'm sorry if you find it upsetting in some way. |
Indeed, and apparently yours really does include a rush to satisfy emotions before the facts are in, as I've given you multiple chances to clarify and all. And (yet) again, I've never disputed that the NRA has been involved in pushing for liberalized gun laws and self defense related legislation, it's sorta what they do. The point is that I. Don't. Care. CATO could propose some stupid idea tomorrow and it would still be a stupid idea even though it came from people I tend to like and agree with, while the KKK could come up with a great idea that wouldn't be made any less great by it's odious originator. Maybe in your world an idea's merit is partially derived from who came up with it, but it isn't in mine.
| simon_says wrote: | | What are you doing with your guns if not playing with them? You are a hobbyist mate, not Paul Revere . Have fun. I just don't see why you need special rights to use them on others and get away with it. |
*sighs* Where to start... Now if I said I was "playing with my guns" I'd have people down my throat about how I'm not treating deadly weapons seriously, but when I take them seriously I get the likes of you telling me I've got some sort of Rambo complex. Maybe you should accept that you clearly know nothing about guns and that you know less than nothing about me personally and what I happen to do with them.
I'm a gunsmith, friendo, Colorado School of Trades class of 2004, which makes me a professional when it comes to firearms and their handling, and much of what I do with them is fix and tune them, in addition to my own sport shooting and habitual carry.
I don't harbor any ideas about the British monarchy getting in my face, but I do take responsibility for my own security and that of my family, a responsibility I take very seriously. I don't roam the neighborhood looking for trouble, I don't try and put myself in dangerous situations, but I do know that if one of those situations should find me that I'm equipped and prepared to give myself the best chance of coming out OK.
I think I adequately addressed your "special rights" red herring above, but feel free to peruse the excellent David Kopel piece I'm posting to this and the other thread, *just for you*.
| simon_says wrote: | | What possible research could I do that would convince you of anything? Zimmermans' lawyer is planning on using SYG. Said so in an interview. The state attorney has said that SYG is a problem and may be a bar to prosecution. Maybe they are both crazy. Maybe youve successfully typed enough words on your keyboard and a genie came out and changed all that. Alakazam! |
Evidently *you* aren't likely to do any productive research period, so I guess I should just lower my expectations when "debating" with you and think of it more as a Larry King softball questions sort of experience.
As to the rest, you seem to be missing the entire "is there actually something to prosecute here?" boat. If there is something to prosecute, the law will not get in the way (read that David Kopel), and if there's nothing there, then I'm glad they can't try to slap a charge on someone just to please the media and the horde.
Also, if you're going to employ the "why are you typing so much/it won't change anything" tactic, you need to shut up yourself or it doesn't have the same impact. Don't worry, we've got the thread covered without your... contributions. |
Hi Dox47,
Your mumbo jumbo of:
"See, I tend to evaluate ideas independently of their source and partisan alignment; I don't care who came up with the idea, only whether or not it's a good one," sounds like you might trust fortune cookies more than your doctor
And your criticizing solid referencing, followed by repeated mumbo jumbo of:
"Evidently *you* aren't likely to do any productive research period, so I guess I should just lower my expectations when "debating" with you and think of it more as a Larry King softball questions sort of experience," coupled with your not caring for sources of research, sounds like......
With the other blather, makes for sources of arrogance like you got yourself covered in something not of skills & knowledge, while you are self-contradicting your own legend in your own mind of harboring fleeting ideas worthy of repeated expressions. You don't care were an idea originated from, with the implied foundation of related knowledge in any non-fiction??? You certainly make Joyce's "Finnegans Wake" sound like a work of non-fiction compared to your proclamations about your words & ideas here. You are presently sober (March 28, 2012, 2:15 AM PDT, USA)???
Your contention of "SYG and other self defense shield laws are universally applicable", indicates you are mis-perceiving much.
The bad weather interrupting continuous internet connection, so sorry for poor editing
Tadzio |
You know what? "Mumbo Jumbo" coming from you is like getting fact checked by Stephen Glass, if Stephen Glass were also slightly dyslexic. If what you do write is intelligible, it's larded up with lame attacks ("Dangerous Gun Usage", how long did that one take you to think up?), misconstrued, irrelevant or inaccurate facts, dripping in condescension and conveys nothing useful among the many abstractions. I think you're projecting quite a bit here, as there is someone in this thread who overvalues their own intellect and opinions while simultaneously repeatedly contradicting them self, and it's not me. I don't show up with some google links and some inscrutable references and call it genius, that's your gig. I'm a credentialed expert in my field; as far as I can tell you're a google lawyer who's been suing the state of California over a $20,000 a year job for the last 10 years who now has a lot of time on their hands.
I can't even speak for your reading comprehension as you seem to be confusing the terms "facts" and "ideas" with each other. I'll trust my doctor on the facts about my health, but I won't rule out a good idea because of it's source, even a fortune cookie. Simon_Says seemingly would base his opinion on whether it was an NRA fortune cookie or a CAP fortune cookie, while you seem to go whichever way lets you be the most insulting to whoever has got your dander up at the moment. Consistently inconstant, except for the unpleasant personality and unearned superiority of course.
I did actually look up your claimed disorder you know, Geschwind syndrome. It explains the rambling and some of the personality flaws, especially cirumstantiality and hyper-religiosity/hyper-morality, but the rest is all you. As a rule I don't like to club baby seals, it's unseemly and tiring on the wrists, but if you insist on nipping at my heels all the time I might just indulge you. In plain English: Keep insulting me personally and I will return the favor. |
The extremely racist and prejudicial sentence "Love that vivid imagery of clubbing baby seals and Rodney King."(2005), is very relevant to the inherent nature of this thread of "The other side of the Trayvon Martin story...". Little did I realize that "The yurodivy is a kind of 'holy fool' - the person who sees what's really going on in society and has the audacity to say it, but only in a kind of code. If there's a ..." would so quickly impact the seeming racist focal point right on the head of the internet masquerading KKK members.
As to TLE & sexuality and myself having been raped, I find, and I believe I hold, rape "jokes", whether "Scared Straight" based or not, much as a hypothetical mix of philosophies of Susan Brownmiller & Erica Jong would. Exploiting the notion of any "Darkling "Plain English" for a shield to excuse deplorable prejudice is very questionable. http://www.sourcetext.com/grammarian/less-than-words-can-say/12.htm
| Dox47 wrote: | | AspieRogue wrote: | | Do you REALLY think Zimmerman is not guilty of 2nd degree murder? |
It doesn't matter if I think he's guilty or not, what matters is that to you rape is apparently an acceptable punishment for someone you think is guilty, and to me it's never acceptable, period. Don't get me wrong, I'll make rape jokes all day long, but this unfortunately prevalent "rape is never ok, unless it's gay prison rape in which case it's hilarious" thing bugs the sh*t out of me. |
Tadzio
P.S.: edit 11:07 PM PDT, I've already read "Oldest Living Confederate Widow Tells All", years ago.
Last edited by Tadzio on Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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blauSamstag
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 06, 2011
Posts: 1880
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| I don't think there is much danger of zimmerman being raped in prison. Some guy will kill him long before that might happen. In general population anyway. |
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Dox47
Consigliere
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 5344
Location: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:55 am Post subject: |
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Is someone insinuating that I'm a racist? Oh please, please continue down that path...
_________________
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. - H L Mencken |
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MarketAndChurch
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 04, 2011
Age: 26
Posts: 1826
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Portland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:46 am Post subject: |
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We don't know much about the case. the man may or may not be a racist, despite having black friends and being half hispanic. What is troubling is that the Left was crying foul way before anyone knew anything. They did so with the Jena 6 incident where a bunch of black kids killed a white guy and claimed that it was because he had drawn a noose, only to discover all of it was BS. They cried racism when those duke lacrosse players were charged with rape, only to discover that the stripper was full of * ... Treyvon Martin will never die. There will always be another Treyvon to take his place after this incident, wherein the Left can charge this country with it truly thinks of it, a racist country where racism is systemic and rampant.
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"Thou art weighed in the balances, and found wanting" - God |
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