Personally, I've always wondered why there is so much anger against God from non-believers in Him, yet they have absolutely zero problem with Satan.
Well, for one, who has said that they don't have any problems with satan?
Lots. I even posted a poll on here several years ago, and more people voted for Satan than for God.
Gravechylde wrote:
Secondly, no one goes around trying to force satan's laws onto people who don't believe in him. No one who has any political/social merits at least.
Hahaha, you'd be surprised how subtle, accepted, and "normal" some of Satan's laws are. Infanticide is one of them, and people willingly practice it in this country by the tens of millions. Child sacrifice was commonly practiced by pagans in the ancient world, and today the gods to which the children are sacrificed are just a bit different: convenience, money, and selfishness. Adultery is another of Satan's laws, and it is comparably popular. Lying is of course ubiquitous. Stealing, murder, you get the idea. And yes, people are coerced into all of these by other people every single day in America alone. _________________ Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.
Joined: May 02, 2008 Posts: 2096 Location: Uhhh...Not Remulak
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:48 pm Post subject:
Ragtime wrote:
Rocky wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Rocky wrote:
If the faithful are the ones who believe that the Bible is literally true, they might not want to risk criticizing the biggest mass murderer in known history.
Criticism might also be mistaken for disbelief, which according to the New Testament, leads to an eternity of torture in Hell. I may have some of the details wrong, since it was quite some time ago that I read that book.
Poor Job attempted to criticize God and he got a tongue lashing.
ruveyn
If the god of the Bible treated a good man like Job the way he did, the faithful have one more reason not to push their luck. I agree.
How utterly unsurprising that you'd both end the story while Job is at his worst condition, rather than alluding to how things turned out:
From Job 42:
Quote:
10 After Job had prayed for his friends, the LORD restored his fortunes and gave him twice as much as he had before.
11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought on him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring.
12 The LORD blessed the latter part of Job’s life more than the former part. He had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand yoke of oxen and a thousand donkeys.
13 And he also had seven sons and three daughters.
14 The first daughter he named Jemimah, the second Keziah and the third Keren-Happuch.
15 Nowhere in all the land were there found women as beautiful as Job’s daughters, and their father granted them an inheritance along with their brothers.
16 After this, Job lived a hundred and forty years; he saw his children and their children to the fourth generation.
17 And so Job died, an old man and full of years.
Wow, God sure is cruel.
I was referring to what he was put through before that. I would say the same about Abraham and Issac. How traumatic would it be to know that your father would be willing to kill you, even after the point that he didn't. If this invisible god changes his mind, Issac would still have been in danger of his life.
Joined: Aug 12, 2011 Posts: 3254 Location: OK let's go.
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject:
As I have said repeatedly, He became human, and was killed in a most gruesome and horrific way. I would say that about covers it.
If someone wants to say, "why isn't God held responsible for the deaths he admits he caused, the people he killed?" Well, would the death penalty satisfy you? That's what he received, and as an innocent man no doubt! Even one of the most despotic rulers of the time found no guilt in him, then sent him on to an even more merciful man to be judged, who could find no fault in him either.
So, I would say that taking the rap for what He did, (destruction of Sodom, Gomorrah, the flood, the plagues on the Egyptians, et al, which He did do,) is exactly what He did in that he was executed!
That's not how most people might spin it, but I will just to satisfy the theologically feeble and morally confused with something to grab on to...
By the way, I have been given the power of live and death over this thread!!! I am the Mighty Thor!!
Well, maybe not the power of live and death, but a member wrote and asked my opinion...
Last edited by shrox on Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:52 pm; edited 3 times in total
Joined: Mar 20, 2011 Age: 24 Posts: 7593 Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject:
Rocky wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Rocky wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Rocky wrote:
If the faithful are the ones who believe that the Bible is literally true, they might not want to risk criticizing the biggest mass murderer in known history.
Criticism might also be mistaken for disbelief, which according to the New Testament, leads to an eternity of torture in Hell. I may have some of the details wrong, since it was quite some time ago that I read that book.
Poor Job attempted to criticize God and he got a tongue lashing.
ruveyn
If the god of the Bible treated a good man like Job the way he did, the faithful have one more reason not to push their luck. I agree.
How utterly unsurprising that you'd both end the story while Job is at his worst condition, rather than alluding to how things turned out:
From Job 42:
Quote:
10 After Job had prayed for his friends, the LORD restored his fortunes and gave him twice as much as he had before.
11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought on him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring.
12 The LORD blessed the latter part of Job’s life more than the former part. He had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand yoke of oxen and a thousand donkeys.
13 And he also had seven sons and three daughters.
14 The first daughter he named Jemimah, the second Keziah and the third Keren-Happuch.
15 Nowhere in all the land were there found women as beautiful as Job’s daughters, and their father granted them an inheritance along with their brothers.
16 After this, Job lived a hundred and forty years; he saw his children and their children to the fourth generation.
17 And so Job died, an old man and full of years.
Wow, God sure is cruel.
I was referring to what he was put through before that. I would say the same about Abraham and Issac. How traumatic would it be to know that your father would be willing to kill you, even after the point that he didn't. If this invisible god changes his mind, Issac would still have been in danger of his life.
The old testement isn't very mainstream for most christians you will find that many of us disagree with things in the bible. We are not all one in the same.
If the faithful are the ones who believe that the Bible is literally true, they might not want to risk criticizing the biggest mass murderer in known history.
Criticism might also be mistaken for disbelief, which according to the New Testament, leads to an eternity of torture in Hell. I may have some of the details wrong, since it was quite some time ago that I read that book.
Poor Job attempted to criticize God and he got a tongue lashing.
ruveyn
If the god of the Bible treated a good man like Job the way he did, the faithful have one more reason not to push their luck. I agree.
How utterly unsurprising that you'd both end the story while Job is at his worst condition, rather than alluding to how things turned out:
From Job 42:
Quote:
10 After Job had prayed for his friends, the LORD restored his fortunes and gave him twice as much as he had before.
11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought on him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring.
12 The LORD blessed the latter part of Job’s life more than the former part. He had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand yoke of oxen and a thousand donkeys.
13 And he also had seven sons and three daughters.
14 The first daughter he named Jemimah, the second Keziah and the third Keren-Happuch.
15 Nowhere in all the land were there found women as beautiful as Job’s daughters, and their father granted them an inheritance along with their brothers.
16 After this, Job lived a hundred and forty years; he saw his children and their children to the fourth generation.
17 And so Job died, an old man and full of years.
Wow, God sure is cruel.
I was referring to what he was put through before that. I would say the same about Abraham and Issac. How traumatic would it be to know that your father would be willing to kill you, even after the point that he didn't. If this invisible god changes his mind, Issac would still have been in danger of his life.
The old testement isn't very mainstream for most christians you will find that many of us disagree with things in the bible. We are not all one in the same.
Sweetleaf says we are. He believes all Christians, no matter how diverse, share the same fundamental flaws in their beliefs. _________________ Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.
Joined: Mar 20, 2011 Age: 24 Posts: 7593 Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:58 pm Post subject:
Ragtime wrote:
Joker wrote:
Rocky wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Rocky wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Rocky wrote:
If the faithful are the ones who believe that the Bible is literally true, they might not want to risk criticizing the biggest mass murderer in known history.
Criticism might also be mistaken for disbelief, which according to the New Testament, leads to an eternity of torture in Hell. I may have some of the details wrong, since it was quite some time ago that I read that book.
Poor Job attempted to criticize God and he got a tongue lashing.
ruveyn
If the god of the Bible treated a good man like Job the way he did, the faithful have one more reason not to push their luck. I agree.
How utterly unsurprising that you'd both end the story while Job is at his worst condition, rather than alluding to how things turned out:
From Job 42:
Quote:
10 After Job had prayed for his friends, the LORD restored his fortunes and gave him twice as much as he had before.
11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought on him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring.
12 The LORD blessed the latter part of Job’s life more than the former part. He had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand yoke of oxen and a thousand donkeys.
13 And he also had seven sons and three daughters.
14 The first daughter he named Jemimah, the second Keziah and the third Keren-Happuch.
15 Nowhere in all the land were there found women as beautiful as Job’s daughters, and their father granted them an inheritance along with their brothers.
16 After this, Job lived a hundred and forty years; he saw his children and their children to the fourth generation.
17 And so Job died, an old man and full of years.
Wow, God sure is cruel.
I was referring to what he was put through before that. I would say the same about Abraham and Issac. How traumatic would it be to know that your father would be willing to kill you, even after the point that he didn't. If this invisible god changes his mind, Issac would still have been in danger of his life.
The old testement isn't very mainstream for most christians you will find that many of us disagree with things in the bible. We are not all one in the same.
Sweetleaf says we are. He believes all Christians, no matter how diverse, share the same fundamental flaws in their beliefs.
And that is a very common belief if indeed it was true you and I would be dressed the same way Jesus and his apostles did this how ever isn't true.
Joined: May 02, 2008 Posts: 2096 Location: Uhhh...Not Remulak
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject:
Joker wrote:
Rocky wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Rocky wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Rocky wrote:
If the faithful are the ones who believe that the Bible is literally true, they might not want to risk criticizing the biggest mass murderer in known history.
Criticism might also be mistaken for disbelief, which according to the New Testament, leads to an eternity of torture in Hell. I may have some of the details wrong, since it was quite some time ago that I read that book.
Poor Job attempted to criticize God and he got a tongue lashing.
ruveyn
If the god of the Bible treated a good man like Job the way he did, the faithful have one more reason not to push their luck. I agree.
How utterly unsurprising that you'd both end the story while Job is at his worst condition, rather than alluding to how things turned out:
From Job 42:
Quote:
10 After Job had prayed for his friends, the LORD restored his fortunes and gave him twice as much as he had before.
11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought on him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring.
12 The LORD blessed the latter part of Job’s life more than the former part. He had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand yoke of oxen and a thousand donkeys.
13 And he also had seven sons and three daughters.
14 The first daughter he named Jemimah, the second Keziah and the third Keren-Happuch.
15 Nowhere in all the land were there found women as beautiful as Job’s daughters, and their father granted them an inheritance along with their brothers.
16 After this, Job lived a hundred and forty years; he saw his children and their children to the fourth generation.
17 And so Job died, an old man and full of years.
Wow, God sure is cruel.
I was referring to what he was put through before that. I would say the same about Abraham and Issac. How traumatic would it be to know that your father would be willing to kill you, even after the point that he didn't. If this invisible god changes his mind, Issac would still have been in danger of his life.
The old testement isn't very mainstream for most christians you will find that many of us disagree with things in the bible. We are not all one in the same.
Doesn't the New Testament teach that if you can't make yourself believe in Jesus' divinity and the god of the Bible that you will be tortured forever in Hell? George Orwell might have been thinking about this situation when he wrote about "Room 101" in his novel "1984."
Joined: Aug 12, 2011 Posts: 3254 Location: OK let's go.
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject:
Ragtime wrote:
Joker wrote:
The old testement isn't very mainstream for most christians you will find that many of us disagree with things in the bible. We are not all one in the same.
Sweetleaf says we are. He believes all Christians, no matter how diverse, share the same fundamental flaws in their beliefs.
Joined: Mar 20, 2011 Age: 24 Posts: 7593 Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject:
Rocky wrote:
Joker wrote:
Rocky wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Rocky wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Rocky wrote:
If the faithful are the ones who believe that the Bible is literally true, they might not want to risk criticizing the biggest mass murderer in known history.
Criticism might also be mistaken for disbelief, which according to the New Testament, leads to an eternity of torture in Hell. I may have some of the details wrong, since it was quite some time ago that I read that book.
Poor Job attempted to criticize God and he got a tongue lashing.
ruveyn
If the god of the Bible treated a good man like Job the way he did, the faithful have one more reason not to push their luck. I agree.
How utterly unsurprising that you'd both end the story while Job is at his worst condition, rather than alluding to how things turned out:
From Job 42:
Quote:
10 After Job had prayed for his friends, the LORD restored his fortunes and gave him twice as much as he had before.
11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the LORD had brought on him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring.
12 The LORD blessed the latter part of Job’s life more than the former part. He had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand yoke of oxen and a thousand donkeys.
13 And he also had seven sons and three daughters.
14 The first daughter he named Jemimah, the second Keziah and the third Keren-Happuch.
15 Nowhere in all the land were there found women as beautiful as Job’s daughters, and their father granted them an inheritance along with their brothers.
16 After this, Job lived a hundred and forty years; he saw his children and their children to the fourth generation.
17 And so Job died, an old man and full of years.
Wow, God sure is cruel.
I was referring to what he was put through before that. I would say the same about Abraham and Issac. How traumatic would it be to know that your father would be willing to kill you, even after the point that he didn't. If this invisible god changes his mind, Issac would still have been in danger of his life.
The old testement isn't very mainstream for most christians you will find that many of us disagree with things in the bible. We are not all one in the same.
Doesn't the New Testament teach that if you can't make yourself believe in Jesus' divinity and the god of the Bible that you will be tortured forever in Hell? George Orwell might have been thinking about this situation when he wrote about "Room 101" in his novel "1984."
While we do believe such things as I have stated we are not all one in the same. For example not all us of agree with the trinity some do I how ever put more importance on the New Testement then I do the Old Testement which I view as historical but I do not follow such laws I am not a fundie either.
Joined: Mar 20, 2011 Age: 24 Posts: 7593 Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject:
shrox wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Joker wrote:
The old testement isn't very mainstream for most christians you will find that many of us disagree with things in the bible. We are not all one in the same.
Sweetleaf says we are. He believes all Christians, no matter how diverse, share the same fundamental flaws in their beliefs.
Joined: Aug 12, 2011 Posts: 3254 Location: OK let's go.
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:04 pm Post subject:
Joker wrote:
shrox wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Joker wrote:
The old testement isn't very mainstream for most christians you will find that many of us disagree with things in the bible. We are not all one in the same.
Sweetleaf says we are. He believes all Christians, no matter how diverse, share the same fundamental flaws in their beliefs.
So, do you have to lump her in with the unworthy?
I didn't lump her at all.
Ragtime. I really say names, but geez man, give the girl some room to think.
Joined: Mar 18, 2012 Age: 25 Posts: 196 Location: Funeralopolis
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:14 pm Post subject:
Ragtime wrote:
Gravechylde wrote:
Well, for one, who has said that they don't have any problems with satan?
Lots. I even posted a poll on here several years ago, and more people voted for Satan than for God.
I guess I can't speak for others, or for an old thread I haven't seen, but almost every time I have seen someone "root for satan" it's generally not meant literally. Even in the Black Metal community, which as far as I know has the most satanic related beliefs. They use the term satan figuratively, not literally.
Ragtime wrote:
Gravechylde wrote:
Secondly, no one goes around trying to force satan's laws onto people who don't believe in him. No one who has any political/social merits at least.
Hahaha, you'd be surprised how subtle, accepted, and "normal" some of Satan's laws are. Infanticide is one of them, and people willingly practice it in this country by the tens of millions. Child sacrifice was commonly practiced by pagans in the ancient world, and today the gods to which the children are sacrificed are just a bit different: convenience, money, and selfishness. Adultery is another of Satan's laws, and it is comparably popular. Lying is of course ubiquitous. Stealing, murder, you get the idea. And yes, people are coerced into all of these by other people every single day in America alone.
I don't know about you, but I've never heard someone with any sort of social/political merit come out and say:
"Infants/people should be killed in the name of satan"
"Go out and cheat on your spouse because satan said so"
"Lie all the time because satan wants you to"
"Stealing is okay because our lord satan allows it"
(and no I am not referring to tribes that worship "false idols")
I also wasn't aware that pagan automatically meant "satan worshipper"
Yes, people do these things, BUT they do not do them in the name of Satan, or in praise of him. Yes, satan may encourage these actions but he is not associated with these actions by any of the criminals that commit them (yes, i know there are exceptions). And even the people who do these crimes (other than sociopaths/psycopaths) knew that they were wrong to commit the crime, but did it anyway. Which I guess you could say is satan's doing, but how could that truly be known unless the criminal says that is why he/she did it? _________________ I speak with a whisper and feel with a shout
