Obres
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Posts: 1431
Location: NYC
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 Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:16 am Post subject: |
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Zimmerman followed Martin with a gun, and shot him. In what f***ing universe is that self-defense? Let me break this down:
1) Zimmerman saw Martin and watched him for some time before contact was initiated. This is not in dispute.
2) Zimmerman had a gun. This is not in dispute.
3) Martin was shot by Zimmerman. This is not in dispute.
Even *if*, and that's a big IF, if Martin did assault Zimmerman, *THAT* was the self-defense. I mean, a guy follows you around with a gun when you're walking home? f***ing HELLO!? Of these two guys, Zimmerman could not have possibly acted in self-defense, in ANY scenario. He was the one watching, and he had a gun. At that point, he was in complete *COMPLETE*
KOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM-
PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET
control of the situation. Then a kid got shot. By him. So yeah, self-defense is a pretty sorry-ass excuse for this. |
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MarketAndChurch
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 04, 2011
Age: 26
Posts: 1826
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Portland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| Obres wrote: | Zimmerman followed Martin with a gun, and shot him. In what f***ing universe is that self-defense? Let me break this down:
1) Zimmerman saw Martin and watched him for some time before contact was initiated. This is not in dispute.
2) Zimmerman had a gun. This is not in dispute.
3) Martin was shot by Zimmerman. This is not in dispute.
Even *if*, and that's a big IF, if Martin did assault Zimmerman, *THAT* was the self-defense. I mean, a guy follows you around with a gun when you're walking home? f***ing HELLO!? Of these two guys, Zimmerman could not have possibly acted in self-defense, in ANY scenario. He was the one watching, and he had a gun. At that point, he was in complete *COMPLETE*
KOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM-
PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET
control of the situation. Then a kid got shot. By him. So yeah, self-defense is a pretty sorry-ass excuse for this. |
That may be true, but what sparked everything that followed was the Left calling this racism, and then urging everyone to then stand up to this because of that. There may or may not be racism involved, but if there isn't, why has one white guy unjustly killing one black kid captivated the left-leaning media and the left as a whole? It is injustice, but of all the homicides that take place in this country, black on white, white on white, asian on black, white on hispanic, hispanic on white, hispanic on black, this one gets national and international coverage. It seems that like the lefts reaction to israelis killing a palestinian, the life of a black killed by a white is more heavily weighted then the life of a white that is taken by a black, or the life of a hispanic that is taken by a black. And the life of a white woman taken by a black is also heavily weighted as well.
It's the disgusting preferences of the left-leaning media based on they think will draw more ratings, and what the left thinks of this country, that it is inherently racist.
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"Thou art weighed in the balances, and found wanting" - God |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29275
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| Obres wrote: | Zimmerman followed Martin with a gun, and shot him. In what f***ing universe is that self-defense? Let me break this down:
1) Zimmerman saw Martin and watched him for some time before contact was initiated. This is not in dispute.
2) Zimmerman had a gun. This is not in dispute.
3) Martin was shot by Zimmerman. This is not in dispute.
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The big question is this: Did Martin engage Zimmerman in a fist fight, after which Zimmerman shot Martin. If Martin engaged Zimmerman physically then Zimmerman has a claim under SYG that he fired the gun in self defense. This is precisely what has to be determined in court.
Stand by and wait for properly vetted testimony in a court of law.
Steaming off about how dreadfully racist Zimmerman was or was not is no substitute for evidence. That is why we have courts and not lynchings.
ruveyn |
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Tadzio
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 03, 2009
Age: 60
Posts: 877
Location: Banned-4-Epilepsy, USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:06 am Post subject: "No Rationality Allowed" with "Stand Your Gro |
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| Obres wrote: | Zimmerman followed Martin with a gun, and shot him. In what f***ing universe is that self-defense? Let me break this down:
1) Zimmerman saw Martin and watched him for some time before contact was initiated. This is not in dispute.
2) Zimmerman had a gun. This is not in dispute.
3) Martin was shot by Zimmerman. This is not in dispute.
Even *if*, and that's a big IF, if Martin did assault Zimmerman, *THAT* was the self-defense. I mean, a guy follows you around with a gun when you're walking home? f***ing HELLO!? Of these two guys, Zimmerman could not have possibly acted in self-defense, in ANY scenario. He was the one watching, and he had a gun. At that point, he was in complete *COMPLETE*
KOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM-
PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET
control of the situation. Then a kid got shot. By him. So yeah, self-defense is a pretty sorry-ass excuse for this. |
Hi Obres,
Florida's "Stand Your Ground" Laws, and much the same laws backed by the National Rifle Ass. and A.L.E.C. in many other States of the USA also, created that bizarre of a legal & deadly universe.
The next very bizarre legal move under the NRA & A.L.E.C. created self-contradicting & bizarre "f***ing universe" named as "that self-defense" may well be the killer's citing the usage granting immunity of "King's X" for killing any victim who happens to put up any physical defense to, or physical attempt to escape from, being killed by the killer.
The self-contradiction is in the contradiction of the granting of the right to "Stand Your Ground" in defense, but the subsection, now being frequently called the "King's X" provision for legal killing, of no allowed "Stand Your Ground" for the victim being killed when the killer encounters any challenge to a successful completion of the killing. The cases the "Stand Your Ground" laws have been applied have a significant statistical characterization of a very strong influence of a revealing American Caste System, of which the citizens of the USA are in constant denial of, as recognizing hard facts squashing the fluff of ideals would wreck all the American Dreams into wakeful sobriety of why the American fasces includes many a deadly axis.
I tried to explain more parts of the absurdities in the SYG laws with (I don't know if the links to searches isolating the particular content work outside the USA (or my State for that matter):
Next most hypothecated is the legal section of the "Stand Your Ground Law" newly weighted with modifications resulting in the common label of "King's x" for first aggressors:
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
With 776.041(2)(b) being wholly "King's x" in Florida's Homicide Law Law Land. So if the killer calls "King's x" before killing, all of the soon to be dead victim's defenses must cease, or the killer is then "Stand Your Ground" protected in continuing to immediately actualize the killing (which is a very absurd law in with the "Stand Your Ground" slogan).
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html
http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=king%27s+X%2CKing%27s+X&year_start=1850&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=3
Besides "King's X" in Webster's American Dictionary, and common American phraseologies, there's the American Religions' Versions:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=%22Chapter+3%22+%22Mrs.+White+has+important+implications.+Since+Satan+%22
Tadzio |
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Dox47
Consigliere
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 5177
Location: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| AspieRogue wrote: | | Please fill this out and submit it to PPR. Your cooperation is appreciated! (And FYI: dont dish out what you cant take back) |
Hmm, brittle, unimaginative and ignorant of context, let alone what actual butthurt looks like. You must think you're pretty clever too, joining Tadzio in his butthurt over the butthurt report form I gave him due to his own ongoing and pervasive butthurt...
Save it for the playground, you're just digging yourself in deeper at this point.
After all, I'm just the guy that called you on your seeming eagerness for someone to get raped; you're the one continuing to make an issue out of it. You can admit that you misspoke, or you can double down on your comments and attitude about prison rape; trying to deflect things back onto me isn't going to make your initial blunder go away and just further confirms my initial assessment. I stand by all my comments, and the weak attempts at distraction and deflection being tossed my way are not only not distressing in the least, but rather excellent testimonies to my accuracy.
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Unconditional allegiance is the surest way to render one’s beliefs and agenda irrelevant
Any power that government has to do something you like will invariably be used for something you abhor
Murum aries attigit |
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ArrantPariah
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 31, 2012
Posts: 4796
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:11 am Post subject: |
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^^ Florida is AWESOME!!!!
So all I have to do is yell "Stand your Ground", and I can kill someone if he so much as twitches! Yay! Hooray for guns!. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| AspieRogue wrote: | Antics aside, I'm happy to see that Zimmerman has been brought to justice.
This is certainly going to induce epic butthurt among america's hillbillies who were delighted to see what they think of as a "white" guy killing a black kid in "self-defense" and getting away with it. Carry on! |
yes it is a good thing that he was brought to justice I agree. |
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Tadzio
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 03, 2009
Age: 60
Posts: 877
Location: Banned-4-Epilepsy, USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| AspieRogue wrote: | Antics aside, I'm happy to see that Zimmerman has been brought to justice.
This is certainly going to induce epic butthurt among america's hillbillies who were delighted to see what they think of as a "white" guy killing a black kid in "self-defense" and getting away with it. Carry on! |
Hi AspieRogue,
What happened to your posting of the "Drama Queen" sign , a posting that was just a moment ago above ArrantPariah's???
This involves this thread because of relevancy of expression of different viewpoints on such a volatile matter.
Tadzio |
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Cornflake
Rattles when shaken
Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 30178
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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^^ I removed it.
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Giraffe: a ruminant with a view. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Cornflake wrote: | | ^^ I removed it. |
Thank you for that Cornflake so far I like you and hyperlexian the most as moderators  |
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marshall
Under the whirlwind
Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Posts: 9156
Location: Western Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Obres wrote: | Zimmerman followed Martin with a gun, and shot him. In what f***ing universe is that self-defense? Let me break this down:
1) Zimmerman saw Martin and watched him for some time before contact was initiated. This is not in dispute.
2) Zimmerman had a gun. This is not in dispute.
3) Martin was shot by Zimmerman. This is not in dispute.
. |
The big question is this: Did Martin engage Zimmerman in a fist fight, after which Zimmerman shot Martin. If Martin engaged Zimmerman physically then Zimmerman has a claim under SYG that he fired the gun in self defense. This is precisely what has to be determined in court.
Stand by and wait for properly vetted testimony in a court of law.
Steaming off about how dreadfully racist Zimmerman was or was not is no substitute for evidence. That is why we have courts and not lynchings.
ruveyn |
I don't think an armed person who get's into a fist fight should be given a license to kill with impunity. If Zimmerman was minding his own business and got jumped by Martin out of the blue that would be a completely different story. Something tells me that's not how it actually went down. |
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Tadzio
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 03, 2009
Age: 60
Posts: 877
Location: Banned-4-Epilepsy, USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | Cornflake wrote: | | ^^ I removed it. |
Thank you for that Cornflake so far I like you and hyperlexian the most as moderators |
I'm looking for a Moderator in the USA that might not have a prejudiced view of protected classes of individuals in the USA, under USA laws, as I don't believe the originator of the posting of his complaint form has free and unrestricted license to trample all protected rights of everybody else here. Florida's Laws allowing the forceful silencing of any contrary views of laws following the Civil Rights Act is more than bad enough already.
Tadzio |
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Cornflake
Rattles when shaken
Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 30178
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Tadzio if you have any issues with the moderation of WP you are always free to contact Alex about it.
Alternatively you could simply answer my PM on this matter - or have I hit the nail on the head with your particular hobby-horse here?
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Giraffe: a ruminant with a view. |
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