ASDMommyASDKid
Hobbit
Joined: Oct 28, 2011
Posts: 1066
Location: "It was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort."
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 Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:22 am Post subject: Grandparent Rant - way too long and disjointed |
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Why can't people just love their grand kids for who they are, and not want to remake them into something more like their own image?
OK, that is probably a stupid question. Reproduction is not cloning, and what he thinks his grand kid is going to be a clone. (The less like his grandfather he is, the happier I am, honestly.) Anyway, it pisses me off! Can you tell?
We had yet another social outing with grandpa (my husband's dad) with him carping over how it is bad to be too smart (What The Frack) and yet more emphasis on social crap. We always end up being interrogated about our parenting (mainly me) and told what our son's deficiencies are.
I also have to walk on egg shells somewhat because he has a ton of mental problems (can you tell?), is suicidal, has a host of medical issues, and is a bully (picking on a seven year old, so obvs) and will yell/guilt my husband and make him cry.
I really, really, really want to rip him a new one. I hate not being able to defend my son to the fullest capacity. I did make terse counterpoints, but to no effect. I feel like I am failing my son, and just want to cry. I do not think my son was paying attention/aware, but I can't be sure. After it was about to get really heated, I whisked my son to the playground (we were in a park) but that is not a strategy I can always use.
Grandpa was in an especially foul mood because it was a birthday party (Yes, he did this at my son's birthday party) and no one else was there but us and him. We invited someone else, but he could not come. We have separate parties because my husband's parents are divorced and do not get along. I also have a separate party for my family because they don't really like my husband's family, particularly him, either. My husband's sister was invited to my husband's mother's party (couldn't come anyway-but it would piss him off that she was invited to a different party--She is toxic, too so I would not invite her to both parties, and have to pick one. ) I do the separate party thing every year, so this is not a surprise in any way. He is free to decline the invite, if it is too boring for him or whatever - no guilt, no problem. Of course that would probably insult him more, if we didn't get mad if he did not come.
He kept asking pointed questions about why the parties are separate, and in trying to give answers that didn't sound like "because no one wants to be around you," and him not taking the hint to not ask, it just completely degenerated into a critique of our son, and our parenting. I was trying to be cute to deflect him and said it was easier and made "Mommy happy." He did not get the clue to shut up, so he went into how things shouldn't be done just because some people can't handle stress. I got really mad (I should have a lot of stress just because he wants to socialize at a bigger party?) and so I told him that that my stress was not the reason and that I was just "being fun."
So at that point he was happy because he got me to basically admit that I had a reason, and it just launched into a full on even worse critique from there. That is when I left for the playground. He just kept on with my husband emphasizing that we should be using physical discipline "so he doesn't become rebellious." We don't choose to parent that way, and it gets in his craw. I don't subscribe to his logic about that or really any parenting subject, and IMO I should not always be put on the defensive by him.
As I type, I guess what I am realizing is that not that he needs a reason, because he'll get on this subject at random, when he feels like it, is that he gets more vicious, when he feels hurt. I guess that makes sense, but I don't think a grown man should act this way, We aren't going to follow his parenting advice, we aren't going to combine parties, just because he would prefer to attend a larger one.
It isn't just because of him and we specifically don't combine the grandmothers and leave him out of some wonderful big party or anything. Everyone has the same number of invites sent per party (2) and he needs to get over it. I also think it would be nice if someone who is so touchy would consider others' feelings a little more, and not be such a bully.
Ugh. Sorry about the long rant, if you made it this far. I just get so aggravated. He hardly ever even pays attention to my son, and would rather talk to my husband. He expects my son to just answer questions when asked, and otherwise let him yammer to my husband and,he does not want to indulge any subject my son likes. My son was even trying to talk to him, yesterday, which is a big deal because he usually doesn't, and Grandpa just dismissed him. He clearly disapproves of our son's strengths/weaknesses because they don't align with what he values. They do not share any special interests.
Also to top it off, I get the impression my son has been "outed" by someone at his last school. I have no way to trace it without asking him what he knows, and who told him. He probably wouldn't tell me anyway, because he wouldn't want me to get the person fired.
This is a small town, and there were a lot of aides there, and he might know one, who wouldn't think anything of breaking confidentiality rules. I suspect it based on some of his questions. It seems like he knows more than he should, and that it is school related and not just him guessing what is "wrong" with him.
If this is true, this will get much worse. When I was at the playground he pointedly asked my husband what autism is and then when my husband tried to answer best he could without talking about our son, He then went on a rant about how he doesn't believe in that "or ADD or any of that stuff" and that it is just an excuse for bad behavior (and implied, of course, bad parenting.)
I really don't want to deal with this man anymore. |
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ThinkTrees
Sea Gull
Joined: Apr 06, 2012
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:42 am Post subject: |
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I have strong views about toxic people...when they are allowed too close they can do some serious, long-lasting damage.
Toxic relatives? Nobody owes them anything but the truth.
If you have compassion for them, give them that, they do not learn through subtleties and hints as they go about setting agendas for everyone they think they have the right to control.
Aggression does not listen to gentleness, which doesn't mean the gentler person should harden up...it means they should be realistic and protect themselves (and those in their care, of course)..
Think ahead, prepare for what you know will likely occur, and avoid unnecessary conflict by laying down truth.
E.g. No-one is at the party because he is bad company.
If he's not told, he won't know.
If he does know and changes nothing, further exclusion should get the point across.
I feel for you.
Be strong in your parenting, continue to do what you know is right.
_________________
AS 169/200
NT 23/200
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cathylynn
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Posts: 2044
Location: northeastern US
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:27 am Post subject: |
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you know grandpa is a bit off. if someone were yelling out the window of a mental hospital that you were a terrorist, would you let that get to you? i don't think so. anyone, who, in this day and age when it's been proven that corporal punishment makes kids angry and anxious, believes in spanking or whatever, doesn't deserve the time of day, so far as your emotional investment is concerned.
so far your son doesn't seem to be bothered. if he ever is, limit their contact.
Last edited by cathylynn on Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PTSmorrow
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 14, 2011
Age: 54
Posts: 719
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:36 am Post subject: |
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From experience, some people did (and probably still do) actually believe in misinformation like "ADD/AS and similar things are nothing but bad behavior and must be cured by discipline."
Looks like your father--in--law is one of them. My own father, meanwhile in his 70's, held the same opinion. For guys like him, training and drill are everything. They believe in concepts like breaking one's will by violence and they do their very best to make one's life a boot camp.
This man's utterances are crap and i wish your husband would put his foot down; after all, it's his father. And if i put myself in your place, why bothering with all his mean and wrong statements? Does he give such generous gifts to his grandson that it would be worth the trouble? As a mother you should put your son's interests over all other aspects and confront his grandfather with the results of his bad behavior, that is, not getting invited anymore. |
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momsparky
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 27, 2010
Posts: 2739
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:55 am Post subject: |
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I struggle with this, too - to some degree, from all the grandparents, but particularly my parents who are simultaneously particularly disabled and particularly blind to it. (Could I use that word more? Sigh.)
The problem is that because they've decided to manage their life by turning a blind eye to their disability, which in general means that they project their disability onto everyone else around them - meaning in every conversation DS and I are the "crazy" or "disabled" ones. They alternate between being "patient" with us and "sympathetic" (oog.) to explaining how we need to "apply ourselves" to get over it.
I've reduced our contact to just my son's birthday and the day after Christmas, I don't email, I don't talk on the phone, but that does mean that those two days really, really suck: two birthdays ago, they successfully ruined my son's birthday almost completely because we spent the day managing them and weren't able to do anything my son wanted to do.
The real problem is - and I see you have it, too - I don't want to cause them to feel bad. They're trapped by their poor management of their disabilities, and they can't see what's right in front of their eyes, and they really don't have a way out. It feels unfair to cut them out of our lives completely without an explanation and of course, explanation would be impossible because they refuse to see any of their own behavior. I could just let them assume it's me (cutting my parents out of my life - which I did when I was single - led my mother to label me 'crazy') but the idea of carrying the responsibility for all their crazy just doesn't sit well with me.
So, I suck it up twice a year. Sometimes I come here and rant about it, too. |
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questor
Hermit
Joined: Apr 24, 2011
Posts: 1983
Location: Twilight Zone
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:43 am Post subject: Relative Rant. |
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Why are you spending any time with a toxic person at all?! Every time you expose your son to his toxic grand father you are committing child abuse. Grow a spine and tell hubby that he can go visit Grandpa by himself, if he really enjoys spending time with him, as you and your son will no longer be spending time with this toxic man, or inviting grandpa to any family functions.
I have a personal rule. I don't hang out with nasty people. Sometimes you may have to work with them, unless you change jobs, but on your own time YOU GET TO CHOOSE WHO YOU HANG OUT WITH!!! You need to start making better choices in who you are hanging out with.
Being with nasty people provides no worthwhile benefits, but does provide unhealthy stress levels. As a parent, you have a duty to protect your children from bad people. You should also be setting an example as to how to deal with such situations. The proper way to deal with nasty people in social situations, is to avoid spending time with them. Don't visit them, don't invite them over, and if you happen to attend a function that they are also attending, just say hello and move off to hang out with nicer people there.
If Grandpa wants to know why you are avoiding him, just tell him the truth--he is an unpleasant person to be around, you don't agree with him on parenting issues, and are under no obligation to spend time with nasty people.
Being related to someone, whether by blood or marriage, does not obligate you to be abused by them. Stop hanging out with this guy, and stop exposing your son to his abuse. |
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Kailuamom
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
Posts: 647
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Do you want your son to hate birthdays and parties long into adulthood? In the simplest form, I think that's what you are setting up with the multiple "parties" with a bunch of people who can't grow up and get along.
So there are a couple of ways I would look at this, just like was mentioned previously, if someone was screaming something out of the psych hospital window, you wouldn't likely give it any weight, and you certainly wouldn't carry that as baggage. you wouldn't take it personally, right?
So first, know that he is not right, and drop the drama. It's likely that grandpa has many of the issues your son has, but didn't get support and his issues were "beat" into submission or his version of normalcy. I have lots of sympathy for folks like that, but don't buy into their crap either. Just like I don't take my sons meltdowns personally, I understand this behavior is this persons best way of coping, know its unpleasant and move on from there.
For gods sake, do something fun that your son wants to do for birthdays and invite everyone to come or not. If you don't want to invite them to the "party", it's fine to do something separately, but stop calling every meeting a party, it's kind of off framing of a situation. So going out to lunch to celebrate your birthday would be more appropriate if it's one person, not a party for one. Every time you frame it like a party, make sure it is one. It's focused on your child, and his wants needs and birthday. If that's not what you're doing,that's totally ok, but call it what it is.
Btw - I hate birthdays because there was weird familial crap, family couldn't deal with little kids, so all freind and family celebrations were separate. I still prefer to go out of town for my birthday. It was really great, for my 40th, I threw a party and invited everyone from all camps and family. It was great, I no longer need to do separate stuff. Anyway, enough about me.
Ask your husband how important keeping the relationship with dad is. If its important, i think that's ok, but you really need to develop some coping mechanisms for how do manage him. I think I would....
Plan answers for his yammering in advance.... Thanks for the feedback, we'll give that some thought.....or hey look over there....even, that wasn't very nice....
Plan to get together at places where you are doing something, baseball game, movie, bowling, science museum anything where you just can't really talk. Keep it kid focused.
Have a clear beginning and ending.
If your husband is willing to let the relationship go, husband could try just telling him the truth, like when he talks about corporal punishment, say..... Interesting, do you know how I felt about every time you hit me? I don't want my child to feel that way ever.. It will likely blow up, but he will have said his truth.
My mom was kind of toxic and uninformed but she really did love me. I used a kind of mixed version of the above, and it worked well. Before kids, I found my best way to keep her in my life was on my lunch break at work, it had a finite beginning and end. I did tell her the truth though. Maybe not about how other people felt about her, I don't think that's my business, but I did tell her how I felt, and I did tell her about how her parenting choices impacted me and how I would NEVER raise my kids the way she raised me.
My mom died of cancer at 51 years old. When she was on her deathbed, something shifted in my consciousness and I really understood that with all her failings, she was just a fallible human doing what she thought was right in the world. She had never meant me harm. She was just doing what she thought would be e best. She was often wrong, but not with the intention of hurting me.
I really grieved at all of the wasted years of being so mad at her. I was really glad that I had learned ways to cope and keep her in my life. I wasn't always as patient or kind as I would like to see myself, but I did find ways to keep her around while keeping myself protected. My kids have no grandparents anymore. I'm glad I sucked it up and figured out some solutions, so that they had her when she was alive.
Sorry my reply was so long, but this is near my heart. |
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DW_a_mom
Ignoring the To-Do List
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 9301
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Reminds me of trying to deal with my sister-in-law ...
Sigh.
Sometimes the best thing to do is exactly what you have done, gently balance it out to the best of your abilities, and then rant about it to third parties later.
Hopefully just writing it all down helped 
I would consider being more blunt with him about the autism diagnosis, however, and to hell with his opinions on it. You stomp it all out by saying something along the lines of, "this is our child and our responsibility, and we are confident in our decisions. You need to respect that."
My family was very skeptical of my son's diagnosis, albeit not to the extent of your FIL. They were trying hard to be respectful, but I knew they felt I just wasn't being strict enough. But over time they saw what happened in enough situations to realize that what I had been telling them was accurate, and now they rave about my parenting of my son (how I deal with my NT daughter they still have issues with, but life goes on). Sometimes if people have the information it gives them something to start from, things to pay attention to.
But you know this man and I don't, so it is of course your call. Hard for anyone of us to know the best way to deal with it from a computer screen. Obviously.
I do wish family relations could be easier, especially once there are children. But they get more difficult, not an ounce easier, once children arrive, and that is the way of the world, it seems. Just remember that they mean well, but YOU know your child.
_________________
Mom to an amazing AS boy (plus a non-AS daughter). Have at least a few AS genes myself, although probably more NT than AS.
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Think of the greening of my name as an emeritus thing; I used to be a moderator but am retired and have no authority to act |
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Mummy_of_Peanut
Countess de Noir
Joined: Feb 21, 2011
Age: 40
Posts: 3478
Location: Bonnie Scotland
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
I don't want to give any advice on the matter as you have to make your own decisions. But, I just wanted to tell a bit about my story here. I had a huge argument with my mother-in-law a year and a half ago. This was after 20 years of knowing she didn't like me, but having no clue as to what I had done to upset her. During the argument, she didn't hold back any. Most of what she had to say was absolute nonsense.
A good example was that she was upset that my Mum had called over my cousin, to be in a close family photo, at my wedding (17 years ago). To let you understand, my cousin was just 16 and had been orphaned 2 years prior to that. My parents took him in and treated him like a son (and still do today). My husband's brother and his wife were in the photo, my cousin deserved to be in it too. I couldn't believe that a grown woman would find this 'intrusion' to be so upsetting.
After she left that evening, I told my husband that I never wanted to see her again and that she would not be welcome in our home. He agreed and we've never argued about the subject. I told him that I didn't have a problem with him seeing her or taking our daughter to visit, but I wanted no more to do with her. He visited her twice and, on each occasion, she only spoke about how awful my family and I are and brought up more ridiculous events, like the one with the photo. He hasn't contacted her in over a year.
She was toxic, caused me a great deal of anxiety and I'm a better person with her gone from my life.
_________________
"We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all we need to make us really happy is something to be enthusiatic about." Charles Kingsley |
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ASDMommyASDKid
Hobbit
Joined: Oct 28, 2011
Posts: 1066
Location: "It was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort."
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:25 am Post subject: |
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Thank you, everybody for your responses.
I (in theory) have the same opinion as a lot of you on toxic people. However, in reality, it isn't that simple because they are my husband's family, and if we cut out all the toxic people 100%, he'd basically be an orphan with no siblings. They are his family, he is emotionally attached to them, and they are masters of simultaneously bullying and guilting. They did a good job of raising him to be conflict averse and asking him to do battle with them is not realistic. It causes him severe emotional damage, and it isn't as simple as telling him to buck up. My family is easier to deal with because they tend to mind their own business, and if I had to be firm about something, I could do it without starting WWIII. The unfairness of that is a problem in and of itself, even though it probably should not be.
I, on the other hand, am not emotionally invested in my husband's clan because they are not my family. That said, they tend to get me very angry and upset because of how they treat me and my family, and I have to make sure I pick my battles wisely because my husband has to deal with the crazy consequences. Also, again, they are his family and he loves them, and he does not want estrangement. Even though I know they are unbalanced, and I know it should not bother me, I do not think anyone likes to be second-guessed and criticized at every turn. It bothers me more that I have to be so careful in my response, though than hurting my feelings. When it comes to our son I do challenge them, but I have to be careful how, and it often ends up better to just bail on the stupidity (Playground Ho!) after dealing with the crazy lack of logic for too long.
I don't actually call these things parties to the people involved (other than my son) because otherwise my mother-in-law thinks she can invite other people because my husband's family is very loose about invitations to things, especially parties. I have them in the park, because it is the best way to escape. I just take my son to the playground area, and we don't have to deal with the offender, anymore. In the past, my son, has done that himself because of disinterest in the conversations. Not that it matters but I think NT kids would do that, too.
It is actually better than a ballgame or a movie, because my son has no interest in those things, and it is his "non-party." Also, we would be captive, and they yammer over games and stuff. Right now, my son likes having the month full of "non-parties" because of the cupcakes and the park. Obviously, we would revisit this if he didn't.
We already limit contact, and that is part of the conflict. They come from a culture where you have a ton of relatives and everyone is up in everyone's business. They have big potluck functions and invite everyone, and do not RSVP. They invite themselves over, sometimes even with less than 10 minutes notice, or being literally around the corner from our house. I do not allow this, and tell them they cannot come. It freaks me out. This offends them, greatly, and they have no clue about why this might be unsettling.
My family is more formal, have smaller, and fewer functions, and this suits my Aspie style much better, even if my in-laws were not so difficult. I am supposed to do as the Romans do and adapt, and I don't. I do put my foot down about things. I do take my son away from anything that might be hurtful. At this point, their voices are mainly white noise to my son, but I do not rely on that. because you never know what he is absorbing.
The point of the parties or non-parties is it counts as contact, and since we host it in the park, we have more control. We can pack up when we are done, and they will leave when we leave because they aren't going to just stay in the park by themselves. If we had them over, and I had to kick them out of our house......oh boy. It isn't about the presents. They often don't bring one, depending on whatever the current financial situation is. We don't care about that, as we get him things. My son is used to this, and is pleasantly surprised when they give him something. He is not very materialistic anyway, because of the nature of his special interests. It is about trying to balance contact in a way that makes it easier to avoid problems.
I hope I addressed most of the ambiguities. I think it is a great idea to have stock replies to certain predictably repeated statements. I really don't know yet what overall strategy we will pursue. I think our inertia driven current strategies have almost run their course.
I was joking with my husband that since his dad is so against multiple parties that we should combine his dad's "non-party" with his mom's and see how much he likes it. Let's see whose stress level would be the problem there. I don't think it would be mine. The separate functions help them as much as it helps me avoid stress.
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