AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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 Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject: Bullying column by Jeffrey Deutsch is lousy. |
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And I think we need to discuss this openly and publicly. If this guy is going to be a regular columnist, he needs to get some honest feedback.
He says we as people on the Asperger's-Autism Spectrum often bring on bullying ourselves, gives an example from the movie My Bodyguard, and then gives an example from his own life of when he was in junior high and would tease and call this other kid "Ravioli" as a play on his name, and that pretty much is the whole column. Wow.
We can do a so much better job of discussing the issue of bullying. |
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asplint
Blue Jay
Joined: Oct 18, 2009
Posts: 77
Location: Washington, DC metro area
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Hello AardvarkGoodSwimmer,
You certainly have a good point about my column leaving out some things. I for one would love to delve in depth as to just how bullying can be provoked (not justified, but provoked). Thing is, my column in that case would have been much longer, and many people only like reading short pieces.
Your response appears long on criticism and short on substance. How do you think the essay could have been better?
Cheers!
_________________
Jeff Deutsch
Speaker & Life Coach
A SPLINT - ASPies LInking with NTs
http://www.asplint.com |
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nat4200
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Redacted
Last edited by nat4200 on Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bcousins
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| asplint wrote: | | Your response appears long on criticism and short on substance. How do you think the essay could have been better? |
How about by starting by making out something other than "we provoke it" which is in most cases, Utter crap.
I said very few things at school, Yet I was sexually assaulted. Hmm, I really bought THAT one on.
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Evinceo
Deinonychus
Joined: Apr 14, 2012
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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The introduction should make it obvious who the intended audience is. I have no idea if this article is for kids or adults, but I'm leaning towards kids, since the paragraphs are extremely short and you took the time to explain that movies have screenwriters that might be trying to say something. Furthermore, the tagline "you have more power than you think" could be finished as "to get yourself punched." I strongly doubt that anyone actually learned anything from it, because the point is so obvious. A better lesson would be "if you win a fight, people will applaud you" or "learn lessons from movies so you don't have to learn them in real life where punches actually hurt and blood isn't fake."
You also left out the most important detail in your personal story, one that the entire narrative hinges on: what happened first: your Ravioli comment, or seeing the movie? Ether you saw the movie/read the book first and missed the advice, and the story is musing about how you might have learned the lesson before causing trouble, or after, and you recognized the value of the advice because you'd learned it first hand already. Without that detail, your reason for including the movie when you have a real-life example is very confusing. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
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Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| asplint wrote: | Hello AardvarkGoodSwimmer,
You certainly have a good point about my column leaving out some things. I for one would love to delve in depth as to just how bullying can be provoked (not justified, but provoked). Thing is, my column in that case would have been much longer, and many people only like reading short pieces.
Your response appears long on criticism and short on substance. How do you think the essay could have been better?
Cheers! |
Well bullying does not exactly strike me as a natural reaction to someone else.......I mean wanting to go out of your way to make someone feel like crap does not seem like something that would be so easy to 'provoke' seems more like an unpleasent behavior on the bullies part not something they can't help. I mean hell apparently even sitting out of everyone's way reading a book 'provokes' bullying otherwise why else did I get bullied when I was just minding my own business trying to stay out of everyones way.
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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| bcousins wrote: | | asplint wrote: | | Your response appears long on criticism and short on substance. How do you think the essay could have been better? |
How about by starting by making out something other than "we provoke it" which is in most cases, Utter crap.
I said very few things at school, Yet I was sexually assaulted. Hmm, I really bought THAT one on. |
bcousins, you're a good person and I'm sorry this happened to you. And even if you're not a quote perfect 'good' person but just a down-the-middle regular person, with flaws and problems, just like all the rest of us, I am still sorry this happened to you.
And thank you for being brave and sharing. |
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nat4200
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Redacted
Last edited by nat4200 on Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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League_Girl
Proud mamma
Joined: Feb 05, 2010
Posts: 13675
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Bullying column by Jeffrey Deutsch is lousy. |
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| AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote: | And I think we need to discuss this openly and publicly. If this guy is going to be a regular columnist, he needs to get some honest feedback.
He says we as people on the Asperger's-Autism Spectrum often bring on bullying ourselves, gives an example from the movie My Bodyguard, and then gives an example from his own life of when he was in junior high and would tease and call this other kid "Ravioli" as a play on his name, and that pretty much is the whole column. Wow.
We can do a so much better job of discussing the issue of bullying. |
I didn't see the article but I do agree to an extent. Looking back in my childhood, I can easily see why I deserved to be bullied, I was bossy didn't respect people, I teased others, treated other people bad because that was how I was treated and how are other kids supposed to know I was innocent and I just didn't really understand other kids? Same as me having a hard time being flexible and how I lacked theory of mind. Plus who likes bullies? Bullies deserve no respect and I acted like a bully so I was one. I teased and teasing is bullying and I liked provoking people, that deserves some bullying and that was me.
Edit: Just read it and I still stand by what I said. |
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bcousins
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Joined: May 02, 2011
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Location: On a failed Tangara set at Blacktown
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote: | | bcousins wrote: | | asplint wrote: | | Your response appears long on criticism and short on substance. How do you think the essay could have been better? |
How about by starting by making out something other than "we provoke it" which is in most cases, Utter crap.
I said very few things at school, Yet I was sexually assaulted. Hmm, I really bought THAT one on. |
bcousins, you're a good person and I'm sorry this happened to you. And even if you're not a quote perfect 'good' person but just a down-the-middle regular person, with flaws and problems, just like all the rest of us, I am still sorry this happened to you.
And thank you for being brave and sharing. |
Yeah, Well, What can you do?
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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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Continue to be a coach and builder for others, according to your own best lights, and when it feels right?
(And oh, I think we can do so much better a job than the decrepit field of psychology where "professionals" seem to believe they need to remain stone-faced and "neutral") |
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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| asplint wrote: | | . . . I for one would love to delve in depth as to just how bullying can be provoked (not justified, but provoked). Thing is, my column in that case would have been much longer, . . |
But that still would be the only sub-category we would be talking about. |
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cubedemon6073
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:20 am Post subject: |
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asplint, this is what would help me out. Here is the thing. I'm the "why is the sky blue" type of aspie. It seems like your message is to completely comform unless I am misunderstanding. The thing is I see inconsistencies in their social rules. I may have a theory. For instance, we're always told to be ourselves. What exactly is meant by this and why aren't aspies allowed to be themselves? Would we not be deceiving others if we followed some of your suggestions? America promotes honesty as a standard does it not? Are we not going against the very thing Americans, especially conservatives, claim as traditional values? If I am wrong why am I wrong?
I have another question which I believe merits an answer. I assume you know about neurodiversity and the autism rights movement. What exactly is the difference the civil rights movement of the 60's and today's autism rights movement?
Here is another question. Society is made up of a collection of people who share beliefs and values. Am I correct? Why aren't these beliefs and values ever open to any level of discussion, challenge, or debate? Why do most people in America seem to reject any level of discussion, challenge, or debate?
You say life is not fair. I have hear this from others as well. Why do most people accept this lock, stock and barrel again without any challenge to this mantra at all? In the 60's people fought against injustice did they not? I don't think they quite accepted this phrase back then. By this standard would segregation still not exist? If blacks of those days complained people by today's standards would state this very phrase. Am I correct? Why is seeking justice and fairness ignoble in America today?
Why is greyscale thinking always better than black and white thinking? Are there times it is not and what those times? Why?
Why is rigidity always a vice yet flexibility a virtue? Are there times one should be rigid and what are those times? Why?
Is there a greater morality than our American Society's morality and standards? What if by comforming one thinks it conflicts with this greater morality and it conflicts with their own fundamental beliefs and values? What if by comforming it goes against the very nature of a person's soul? |
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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: |
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Parent to school official: "Beginning to be a problem . . . "
This is a negotiating tactic, and in many cases it's a blalant lie in that it's been a problem for some time. But it's a way of letting the principal or other school official off the hook and saying, what I really care about is how things go from here on out. And that's what you do most care about.
Helps to have an advocate or "fair witness" present with you.
School officials sometimes say something critical about your child to throw you off or "neutralize" blame, and they're good at this. They have a lot of experience, and you do not. Plus, it's hard not to take it personally. They're saying something critical about your child.
This can be another relative involved in your child's life, a tutor, son's scoutmaster, etc, sitting there with you. And then the school official is likely to be on his or her better behavior. You get some of this advantageous effect with both parents sitting there. ("Fair witness" is a concept I got from a science fiction writer.) You might also get some of this effect having something in writing to hand to the school official (this one a little dicey, as long as it's neutral and understated).
PS I AM NOT A PARENT. But I have lived life on the spectrum, try and be a pretty good guy  , and can remember my mother's battles with the school on behalf of both me and my sister, and occasionally my dad joined in to help. |
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bcousins
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote: | | PS I AM NOT A PARENT. But I have lived life on the spectrum, try and be a pretty good guy , and can remember my mother's battles with the school on behalf of both me and my sister, and occasionally my dad joined in to help. |
Thats better than my mum, Who was told by the principal of my school, That I shouldnt be in a mainstream school, even when there was a kid with Muscular Dystrophy coming in.
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