Inyanook
Sea Gull
Joined: Apr 14, 2012
Age: 19
Posts: 204
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 Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Kurgan wrote: | | It's still wrong and anyone who finds pleassure in torturing birds has a sick mind. |
I'm not arguing with you. It is very wrong, no matter which species of animal is victimised.
From a psychological perspective, however, the distinction is important because clearly Shadewraith drew a line between the category of "birds, insects and reptiles" and the category of "mammals". This indicates that he felt more for mammals (which we are more like) than other creatures — and this is something which should be made clear to his doctors in order that they have an understanding of his childhood experiences.
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Callista
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Age: 30
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Location: Central USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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The distinction is whether the animal is capable of suffering. An insect is probably not. A fish, possibly. A bird or a mammal, definitely. I don't know if you've ever studied the ethics of animal research, but that's how researchers determine which animals to use and how to prevent suffering. A researcher using worms doesn't have to supply anesthesia; a researcher using mice does. And if work done on mice can be done on worms, then he isn't allowed to use mice. Etc.
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Shadewraith
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Joined: Nov 20, 2011
Age: 27
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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The reason I asked was that I always thought that when I was asked, they meant house pets. I've shot birds out of trees, ripped one or two legs off of a spider to watch it prance in circles, ripped wings off of butterflies, drowned wasps and bees, set fire to ant piles, and let my dogs take either end of a snake and rip it in half, all as a kid. I always thought that was normal. I've even thrown a large rock at a dog I owned one time, just to see what would happen. But I do love cats and even a lot of dogs now. I think I won't hurt cats and dogs is because they've shown be love that most humans haven't.
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Orr
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Joined: Jun 12, 2011
Posts: 564
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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It does seem unusual to consider animals apart from house pets to not be animals.
If you were shooting birds on a large scale for fun, it might be important to mention.
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Matt62
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Joined: Jan 05, 2012
Age: 51
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Are you a teen-ager? I had thoughts like that at adolesence, but they went away. My take was just a reflexx because of teasing & bullying that was constant in my early life.
Mine usually involved violence of a somewhat unrealistic sort though, like invasions of aliens destroying my school(s). Or of world domination..
Obviously, I never tried to act out any fantasy, other than some dark themed drawings & poems. A horror story or two (short fiction) also in the mix. I eventually outgrew this time of my life. Art appears to have been an outlet. I never would have considerd doing a Columbine School shooting or anything of the sort!
Sincerely,
Matthew |
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Max000
Toucan
Joined: Apr 07, 2012
Age: 52
Posts: 272
Location: My world
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Callista wrote: | | The distinction is whether the animal is capable of suffering. An insect is probably not. A fish, possibly. A bird or a mammal, definitely. |
Actually I'm pretty sure all those living things are capable of suffering. Try setting an insect on fire, and its reaction is almost exactly same as how a human being, or any other animal would react to the pain.
I find it interesting though, how people distinguish between different classes of life forms. Personally I would never harm a bird or a reptile. However when it comes to insects, I just feel a great deal of satisfaction, even pleasure in killing or maiming as many of them as possible.
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Shadewraith
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Joined: Nov 20, 2011
Age: 27
Posts: 223
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Matt62 wrote: | | Are you a teen-ager? |
I'm an adult.
| Max000 wrote: | | Actually I'm pretty sure all those living things are capable of suffering. Try setting an insect on fire, and its reaction is almost exactly same as how a human being, or any other animal would react to the pain. |
I actually enjoy doing this to insects. I also enjoy watching videos of people being burned alive.
| Max000 wrote: | | I find it interesting though, how people distinguish between different classes of life forms. Personally I would never harm a bird or a reptile. However when it comes to insects, I just feel a great deal of satisfaction, even pleasure in killing or maiming as many of them as possible. |
I make the distinctions between people too. The people I care about are what most people would consider a human. Everyone else is either a servant, (someone who serves a purpose) like a cashier or my doctors, or they're on a level similar to an insect, serving no purpose. I suppose the biggest reason I don't act on my thoughts is because I would end up in jail and that wouldn't be pleasant.
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Inyanook
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Joined: Apr 14, 2012
Age: 19
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Max000 wrote: | | Callista wrote: | | The distinction is whether the animal is capable of suffering. An insect is probably not. A fish, possibly. A bird or a mammal, definitely. |
Actually I'm pretty sure all those living things are capable of suffering. Try setting an insect on fire, and its reaction is almost exactly same as how a human being, or any other animal would react to the pain. |
Yeah, I have trouble seeing the difference, there, too. An insect must have the sensation of pain, otherwise they would have no reason to avoid it. You only have to look at someone born with the inability to feel pain to see the damage that can do.
But I think the point is that feeling pain (the physical sensation) is different from feeling suffering (the emotions that arise from it). Is this a sensation/perception thing? I've no idea. Regardless, I'd never want to needlessly cause any creature pain. Emotionally, I believe all creatures are capable of suffering. I am pretty much incapable of killing insects, even if they happen to have bitten me or scared me to death (and I live in rural Australia, so this happens frequently  ). The exception is instinctively swatting a mosquito.
| Max000 wrote: | | I find it interesting though, how people distinguish between different classes of life forms. Personally I would never harm a bird or a reptile. However when it comes to insects, I just feel a great deal of satisfaction, even pleasure in killing or maiming as many of them as possible |
It seems to be a matter of how similar to us they are. You can't get much less like us than an insect, and birds and reptiles are pretty dissimilar as well. Plenty of people have pulled the wings off flies as children, but would always consider the injuring of a dog, cat or ape absolutely disgusting. You see a similar thing happening when people are willing to fish, but not to hunt.
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Inyanook
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Joined: Apr 14, 2012
Age: 19
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Shadewraith wrote: | | I make the distinctions between people too. The people I care about are what most people would consider a human. Everyone else is either a servant, (someone who serves a purpose) like a cashier or my doctors, or they're on a level similar to an insect, serving no purpose. I suppose the biggest reason I don't act on my thoughts is because I would end up in jail and that wouldn't be pleasant. |
That's interesting, and also clarifying. Your doctors should definitely be listening to you when you ask them for help, especially if you tell them something like this.
Would you consider the people close to you as being more on your level (more like you), while those others are lower and less like you?
At what point does an acquaintance become someone you would actually care about? What has to happen there?
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Max000
Toucan
Joined: Apr 07, 2012
Age: 52
Posts: 272
Location: My world
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Inyanook wrote: | | Max000 wrote: | | I find it interesting though, how people distinguish between different classes of life forms. Personally I would never harm a bird or a reptile. However when it comes to insects, I just feel a great deal of satisfaction, even pleasure in killing or maiming as many of them as possible |
It seems to be a matter of how similar to us they are. You can't get much less like us than an insect, and birds and reptiles are pretty dissimilar as well. |
Um, IDK. I'm not so sure about that either. I think humans are more similar to insects, then to other animals. Probably ants and humans are the most similar. Maybe not in size or appearance, but most other ways. The way both destroy nature to build cities and communities. No other animals that I can think of do that.
But I do see your point, based on appearance. I think maybe size has to do with it more then anything else.
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Shadewraith
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Joined: Nov 20, 2011
Age: 27
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Inyanook wrote: | That's interesting, and also clarifying. Your doctors should definitely be listening to you when you ask them for help, especially if you tell them something like this.
Would you consider the people close to you as being more on your level (more like you), while those others are lower and less like you? |
I would consider my fiancee a bit below my level in terms of intelligence. She's not the brightest light bulb, but I still love her. My best friend is on par with me and my intelligence. She doesn't judge me either, so we have a great relationship. My parents are on the servant level and my relationship with them is completely parasitic. People like my doctor are also on that servant level, but I do respect him and consider him on my level because of his intellect.
| Inyanook wrote: | | At what point does an acquaintance become someone you would actually care about? What has to happen there? |
I usually start to care about someone when they show me some sort of vulnerability. It lets me know that I can trust them. I start caring about them when they need me or I can count on them when I need them. I don't trust anyone at all, so it takes a lot of work on their part to gain that trust.
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Inyanook
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Age: 19
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Max000 wrote: |
Um, IDK. I'm not so sure about that either. I think humans are more similar to insects, then to other animals. Probably ants and humans are the most similar. Maybe not in size or appearance, but most other ways. The way both destroy nature to build cities and communities. No other animals that I can think of do that.
But I do see your point, based on appearance. I think maybe size has to do with it more then anything else. |
Giant insects would be scary as s***, so I disagree there.
It's on an emotive level, I think. It's easier to anthropomorphize a dog, cat or ape than it is a reptile or insect.
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Inyanook
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Age: 19
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Shadewraith wrote: |
I would consider my fiancee a bit below my level in terms of intelligence. She's not the brightest light bulb, but I still love her. My best friend is on par with me and my intelligence. She doesn't judge me either, so we have a great relationship. My parents are on the servant level and my relationship with them is completely parasitic. People like my doctor are also on that servant level, but I do respect him and consider him on my level because of his intellect. |
Would you hurt your doctor, or is he the kind of person you would not consider injuring?
| Shadewraith wrote: | | I usually start to care about someone when they show me some sort of vulnerability. It lets me know that I can trust them. I start caring about them when they need me or I can count on them when I need them. I don't trust anyone at all, so it takes a lot of work on their part to gain that trust. |
Sorry? You trust no-one, but they have to show that you can trust them? I am somewhat confused.
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Shadewraith
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Age: 27
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Inyanook wrote: | | Would you hurt your doctor, or is he the kind of person you would not consider injuring? |
I've had fantasies involving him but only because he doesn't listen to me sometimes.
| Inyanook wrote: | | Sorry? You trust no-one, but they have to show that you can trust them? I am somewhat confused. |
I worded that wrong. What I meant is that I don't trust anyone outside of my circle. It takes a tremendous amount of effort for me to trust an outsider.
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Inyanook
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Age: 19
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, okay. Sorry, I should have realised that was what you meant.
Out of curiosity, is your fiancee aware of these fantasies that you have?
It could be that I'm asking too many questions, now. Please let me know if I'm being too nosy; I'm just interested.
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