shrox
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 12, 2011
Posts: 3254
Location: OK let's go.
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 Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Kraichgauer wrote: | | ruveyn wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: |
I'm pretty certain Christ the man existed. My faith tells me he was also God.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
When Christ, the man, took a dump, did he produce Holy Sh*t?
ruveyn |
He was human, so he defecated as his body required.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Yes, but it wasn't "holy". He had the same intestinal bacteria we all have. |
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12748
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| shrox wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | | ruveyn wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: |
I'm pretty certain Christ the man existed. My faith tells me he was also God.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
When Christ, the man, took a dump, did he produce Holy Sh*t?
ruveyn |
He was human, so he defecated as his body required.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Yes, but it wasn't "holy". He had the same intestinal bacteria we all have. |
Absolutely.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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slave
Always stuck between 13-38Hz and tired of it.
Joined: Feb 29, 2012
Age: 100
Posts: 1320
Location: Dystopia Planetia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| CrazyCatLord wrote: | Interesting  Although I think in case of Muhammad, it makes little difference if he existed or not. We know that someone in the Arab world had a look at Judeo-Christian religious texts, liked what he saw, and wrote his own, somewhat plagiaristic book that came to be known as the Quran. That could have been Muhammad or somebody who made up Muhammad as a story character. In the end, it doesn't really matter.
I think the questionable historicity of Jesus is different insofar that Jesus was supposed to be the superpowered son of god who returned from the dead. That makes his existence a lot less believable than that of any mortal person mentioned in the Bible, the Tanakh or the Quran. There is little reason to doubt that the existence of Abraham or Saul/Paul of Tarsus, for example. Whereas Jesus' believability is more akin to that of the Greek demigods Heracles and Perseus. |
_________________
Since the birth of civilization, masters have controlled the masses.Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them.They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. Any who resist will be destroyed.I will not resist. |
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slave
Always stuck between 13-38Hz and tired of it.
Joined: Feb 29, 2012
Age: 100
Posts: 1320
Location: Dystopia Planetia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: Yes he existed. |
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| mikecartwright wrote: | | Yes he existed. |
Proof of same is required.
_________________
Since the birth of civilization, masters have controlled the masses.Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them.They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. Any who resist will be destroyed.I will not resist. |
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AspieOtaku
Leader of the Otaku Legion
Joined: Feb 18, 2012
Age: 30
Posts: 5885
Location: Mountain View, California, United States
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: |
I'm pretty certain Christ the man existed. My faith tells me he was also God.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
When Christ, the man, took a dump, did he produce Holy Sh*t?
ruveyn |
 that brings the phrase a whole new meaning.
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? http://www.anime44.com/anime-list |
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clthomps
Blue Jay
Joined: Jan 23, 2012
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ....and a new record! It only took 2 minutes for this thread to turn to sh**... |
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CrazyCatLord
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 25, 2011
Posts: 2177
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| Kraichgauer wrote: | | CrazyCatLord wrote: | Interesting Although I think in case of Muhammad, it makes little difference if he existed or not. We know that someone in the Arab world had a look at Judeo-Christian religious texts, liked what he saw, and wrote his own, somewhat plagiaristic book that came to be known as the Quran. That could have been Muhammad or somebody who made up Muhammad as a story character. In the end, it doesn't really matter.
I think the questionable historicity of Jesus is different insofar that Jesus was supposed to be the superpowered son of god who returned from the dead. That makes his existence a lot less believable than that of any mortal person mentioned in the Bible, the Tanakh or the Quran. There is little reason to doubt that the existence of Abraham or Saul/Paul of Tarsus, for example. Whereas Jesus' believability is more akin to that of the Greek demigods Heracles and Perseus. |
Like Islam, Christianity just couldn't have appeared out of nowhere without a founder, even if you believe Christ was only a man.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
True. Both Jesus and Muhammad could have been real persons or story characters made up by the true founder of the respective religion, but since there had to be a founder in either case, we might as well asssume that both persons existed. The difference is that the Islam requires people to believe in a human founder who had some revelation of divine knowledge, similar to Abraham or Moses, whereas Christianity requires the belief that Jesus was the son of god or an incarnation of god and had superhuman abilities.
Of course the Quran also makes utterly unbelievable, supernatural claims about Muhammad. For example, he supposedly rode to heaven on a flying horse and had a chat with god. But the life of many historical figures has been embellished with mystical or magical elements. Such as Achilles, who was likely a real person who participated in the Trojan war, even though he wasn't the son of a nymph or raised by a centaur as the stories say. It's much easier to believe in a historical Achilles than in a historical Heracles, whose life story requires the belief that he was the superpowered son of Zeus. |
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naturalplastic
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 27, 2010
Posts: 4597
Location: mid atlantic coast usa
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting article.
I knew that the first hand access to the life of Christ was pretty mirage-y.
But apparently with both Christ, and Mohammed, there is an "event horizon" at about a centurey after the guy's death beyond which you cant find records.
However the arab armies seemed to have been a very unified force only decades after mohammed's death and they burst out of Arabia and proceded to conquer a large chunk of the world very rapidly which implies they must have had a leader to creat that war machine.
If mohammed didnt exist someone alot like him must have existed in the Mecca/Medina area at about the time he is supposed to have existed.
One of this new books supposed pieces of evidence FOR mohammed's NONexistence- I think is the opposite- that being one of the two earliest biographies of mohammed the book mentions.
One of the two early arab biographers actually admitted to editing out some of mohammed's life 'because its too disturbing".
The fact that a biographer admits to unflattering flaws in his idol's life is pretty strong evidence that the idol is not just a mythical fantasy but an all too real person. |
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shrox
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 12, 2011
Posts: 3254
Location: OK let's go.
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shrox
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 12, 2011
Posts: 3254
Location: OK let's go.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Yes he existed. |
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| slave wrote: | | mikecartwright wrote: | | Yes he existed. |
Proof of same is required. |
Why do we have to go round and round on this question? Anyone that is out of your living ancestors' memory simply cannot be "proven" to have existed. Computer graphics further compound the problem, since absolutely correct images and video of a person, real or not can be generated. If asked to prove George Washington existed, you would probably cite writing attributed to him, or second accounts of witnesses that saw they saw him. But even those witnesses are dead, and all their combined writings were never kept in hermetically sealed containers just to prove Mr. Washington's existence to you, yet you believe George Washington existed. Even DNA from a cup he used can't be matched to a body, you have to trust that body is Mr. Washington, and has not been disturbed there on Mt. Vernon during the Civil War by uncouth rebels.
You could point to a country he "founded", here's his picture right on the money. That picture is an artist's portrait, and recent research indicates artists actually view the world in a spatially different fashion. That painting might be as different from Mr. Washington's actual appearance as if it had been done by Picasso in his abstraction phase. So for 230 some years, we've been following Mr. Washington. For 2000 years people have been following Jesus.
You can toss a coin on this one, or make a circumstantial decision. |
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