Verdandi
Miss Kitty Fantastico
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Posts: 10172
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
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 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| CrazyCatLord wrote: | Someone got empathy confused with sympathy. Most people make that mistake. In this case, it is probably a translation error, seeing that this article is based on Swiss research. If aspies had too much empathy, we'd be better at reading facial expressions and body language than neurotypical people. Is that true? No. Of course not. Aspies may feel a lot of sympathy for others, but that is not quite the same.
Sympathy is the ability to feel compassion for other people, whereas empathy is the ability to read nonverbal cues such as facial expression. If you're not particularly good at the latter, you lack empathy, even if you're a very sympathetic person who feels very strongly for others if their life situation is communicated to you via language or a movie plot. Conversely, there are narcissists who are very good at reading their fellow people, which means they're highly empathetic, but they don't feel a shred of sympathy for others. |
Empathy is two things:
One is cognitive empathy, which is what you're talking about. This is impaired in the autism spectrum.
The other is affective empathy, which is the ability to sense/perceive another's emotional state. This is typically (but not always) about the same in autistic people as it is in NTs. It sounds like you're getting some of sympathy mixed up with affective empathy. |
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TechnoDog
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 17, 2012
Posts: 869
Location: Thornaby, UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:15 am Post subject: |
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I think someone been smoking something, wrong.....
I score 115 on impulse control test. Yet by this it says I should be off the charts. Only problem is, I am a shy introvert.
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Strong impulse control or will power protects against ADHD, CD, ODD, addiction and antisocial personality disorder. These are all genetic disorders caused in part by poor impulse control.
What Is Impulse Control?
Impulse Control means controlling our reactions to the impulses that come from our basic drives and emotions. Impulse control is about choosing instead of reacting. A person with a lot of impulse control or will power can resist his drives and control his actions. Impulse control leads to popularity, economic success and life success! Impulse control is a talent that often determines a person's social status. |
Sound like RDOS test?
http://parentingtheatriskchild.com/impulse%20control.html
_________________
INTJ, Type5 Observer, Ecologists,
“When you make a mistake, don't look back at it long. Take the reason of the thing into your mind and then look forward. Mistakes are lessons of wisdom. The past cannot be changed. The future is yet in your power.”
Last edited by TechnoDog on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dillogic
you know how it goes
Joined: Nov 25, 2011
Posts: 3308
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ... rather, a hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelming fear response. |
That's called sympathy.
Cohen has done physical testing in this area (neuro stuff), and it comes up with impaired empathy just the same as the written tests do. |
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Verdandi
Miss Kitty Fantastico
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Posts: 10172
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| TechnoDog wrote: | I think someone been smoking something, wrong.....
I score 115 on impulse control test. Yet by this it says I should be off the charts. Only problem is, I am a shy introvert.
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What does impulse control have to do with anything? Your replies to this thread seem random and only barely topical. |
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Verdandi
Miss Kitty Fantastico
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Posts: 10172
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Dillogic wrote: | | Quote: | | ... rather, a hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelming fear response. |
That's called sympathy.
Cohen has done physical testing in this area (neuro stuff), and it comes up with impaired empathy just the same as the written tests do. |
Cohen's definitions are poor and his written test doesn't actually seem to test empathy. It seems to be a test with questions about empathy that autistic people tend to score low on. |
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TechnoDog
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 17, 2012
Posts: 869
Location: Thornaby, UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Verdandi wrote: | | TechnoDog wrote: | I think someone been smoking something, wrong.....
I score 115 on impulse control test. Yet by this it says I should be off the charts. Only problem is, I am a shy introvert.
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What does impulse control have to do with anything? Your replies to this thread seem random and only barely topical. |
Well have you read the link I gave or not?
_________________
INTJ, Type5 Observer, Ecologists,
“When you make a mistake, don't look back at it long. Take the reason of the thing into your mind and then look forward. Mistakes are lessons of wisdom. The past cannot be changed. The future is yet in your power.” |
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Verdandi
Miss Kitty Fantastico
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Posts: 10172
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| TechnoDog wrote: | | Verdandi wrote: | | TechnoDog wrote: | I think someone been smoking something, wrong.....
I score 115 on impulse control test. Yet by this it says I should be off the charts. Only problem is, I am a shy introvert.
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What does impulse control have to do with anything? Your replies to this thread seem random and only barely topical. |
Well have you read the link I gave or not? |
It clarifies nothing for me. I'm sorry if I come across as confrontational, as I do not want to. But: What are you saying? |
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fragileclover
Velociraptor
Joined: May 22, 2009
Posts: 496
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Dillogic wrote: | | Quote: | | ... rather, a hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelming fear response. |
That's called sympathy.
Cohen has done physical testing in this area (neuro stuff), and it comes up with impaired empathy just the same as the written tests do. |
No, that is not sympathy. Sympathy has nothing to do with hypersensitivity or strong emotions. Sympathy is feeling pity for another person's situation. Empathy is feeling another person's emotions.
For instance, most doctor's have a strong sense of sympathy, but are either naturally absent of or have to repress/reject any feelings of empathy, or they would not be able to do their job's properly. When a doctor sees someone in pain and wants to do something to alleviate that pain, they are experiencing sympathy. However, if a doctor were overly empathetic, if they saw someone crying in pain, they would be overwhelmed with emotion, and unable to perform their job properly.
Sympathy: understanding one's pain or emotion.
Empathy: feeling one's pain or emotion.
While the two are not mutually exclusive, they can and often do occur in the absence of the other.
I'm a very strong empathizer, but a poor sympathizer. If I see someone else in distress, I will feel distressed. That is, until the reason for their distress is introduced, at which point I'll begin analyzing the causation and determine if it fits the emotion. If the emotional response doesn't make sense to me in terms of what caused it, I will shut down and not be able to console the person.
For instance, several months ago, my boyfriend called me in tears. I was shocked to hear him crying, and immediately felt as if I were going to cry myself. My distress level continued to build, until I finally got him to tell me what was wrong. It turned out, his parents had said something really awful to him, something related to a subject that they know he is quite sensitive about. However, his parents are very mean, and always say cruel things, so I didn't get why he should be so surprised or upset. Once I analyzed the cause, I was unable to sympathize with him, because his response didn't make sense to me.
_________________
Aspie Quiz: AS - 141/200, NT - 77/200 (Very likely an Aspie)
AQ: 34/50 (Aspie range)
EQ: 32 / SQ: 68 (Extreme Systemizing / AS or HFA)
Diagnosed with AS and Anxiety Disorder - NOS on 03/21/2012 |
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XFilesGeek
Pretentiousness personified.
Joined: Jul 25, 2010
Posts: 1791
Location: The Oort Cloud
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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You can be sympathetic towards someone's pain without "understanding" it.
However, it is not possible to "experience" someone else's emotions. If you cry because you see someone else crying, you are experiencing your own emotions, not their's.
I don't "get" why someone would be upset over being dumped by their girlfriend/boyfriend, but I just go along with it and offer "support."
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"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced." |
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Dillogic
you know how it goes
Joined: Nov 25, 2011
Posts: 3308
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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You got sympathy wrong, fragilecover.
Sympathy is feeling something due to actually having firsthand experience with the event/whatever
I.e., I know what it's like for someone to lose a pet they really loved as I have lost one
Empathy is feeling something due to an event that you haven't experienced firsthand
I.e., I don't know what it's like to lose a child as I've never lost one
"Normal" people feel empathy, even though there's no logical reason for them to, i.e., they don't know what it's like to go through it. |
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fragileclover
Velociraptor
Joined: May 22, 2009
Posts: 496
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Dillogic wrote: | You got sympathy wrong, fragilecover.
Sympathy is feeling something due to actually having firsthand experience with the event/whatever
I.e., I know what it's like for someone to lose a pet they really loved as I have lost one
Empathy is feeling something due to an event that you haven't experienced firsthand
I.e., I don't know what it's like to lose a child as I've never lost one
"Normal" people feel empathy, even though there's no logical reason for them to, i.e., they don't know what it's like to go through it. |
I'm sorry to be argumentative, but your above statements are entirely false.
You have the two mixed up. You can easily find definitions of the two words and explanations of their differences with a simple search. I studied the two concepts thoroughly in my course of study.
Empathy literally means 'to feel into' - it's a sharing of another's emotions, not a feeling of pity or condolence.
_________________
Aspie Quiz: AS - 141/200, NT - 77/200 (Very likely an Aspie)
AQ: 34/50 (Aspie range)
EQ: 32 / SQ: 68 (Extreme Systemizing / AS or HFA)
Diagnosed with AS and Anxiety Disorder - NOS on 03/21/2012 |
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Mummy_of_Peanut
Countess de Noir
Joined: Feb 21, 2011
Age: 40
Posts: 3474
Location: Bonnie Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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^ Agreed. And you definitely don't need to have experienced something in order to have sympathy for someone else who is experiencing it (same goes for empathy).
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"We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all we need to make us really happy is something to be enthusiatic about." Charles Kingsley |
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XFilesGeek
Pretentiousness personified.
Joined: Jul 25, 2010
Posts: 1791
Location: The Oort Cloud
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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I would still like an explanation as to how it's possible to experience someone else's emotions......
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fragileclover
Velociraptor
Joined: May 22, 2009
Posts: 496
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| XFilesGeek wrote: | | I would still like an explanation as to how it's possible to experience someone else's emotions...... |
You can experience another's emotions in the sense that the cause of the emotion did not originate in you, but with the other person. It's difficult to describe if you've never experienced it yourself.
I used this example in another thread, but if you've ever felt afraid when the hero or heroine in a horror film is in immediate danger, then you've felt empathy. Most films require at least sympathy on part of their audience to be successful, but horror films require empathy on part of the audience.
When you feel fear in this situation, you are identifying yourself with the hero or heroine, and thus, technically experiencing THEIR fear. After all, YOU are not being chased by the monster...the character is. There is no rational reason to be afraid, but you are, because you are taking on the character's emotions.
If you are unable to connect to a horror film this way, it's either poorly made, or you are unable to properly empathize.
_________________
Aspie Quiz: AS - 141/200, NT - 77/200 (Very likely an Aspie)
AQ: 34/50 (Aspie range)
EQ: 32 / SQ: 68 (Extreme Systemizing / AS or HFA)
Diagnosed with AS and Anxiety Disorder - NOS on 03/21/2012 |
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Mummy_of_Peanut
Countess de Noir
Joined: Feb 21, 2011
Age: 40
Posts: 3474
Location: Bonnie Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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I think it comes from imagining that the same thing has happened to you. For example, my neighbour's 3 yr old son died suddenly. As mother to a little girl, I couldn't help but imagine how she might be feeling. Of course, I was not actually feeling the same emotion as her and my emotions were nowhere near as intense as hers, because it hadn't happened to me, But, I could imagine myself in the shoes of a bereft mother for an instance. How would I feel if it had happened to me instead? You won't know exactly, unless it happens, but you can make a decent a guess at your probable emotional state. Had I not been a mother, I expect it might have been harder to imagine the emotion. I had sympathy for her, which I had to express when I met her, but I also had empathy, which isn't worth expressing, because how can I possibly truly understand. If you have real empathy, you will also be aware of its limits. An expression like 'I know how you feel' is not helpful, unless you have gone through the same thing.
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"We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all we need to make us really happy is something to be enthusiatic about." Charles Kingsley |
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