Joined: Jul 11, 2008 Age: 33 Posts: 2930 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:50 pm Post subject: The Enemies of Reason
While I'm slightly disappointed that more people didn't participate in my previous thread about a documentary by Richard Dawkins regarding religious fundamentalism (it only went on for 3 pages), I've decided to post this thread about another one of documentaries but this time on a different topic. There is actually one more such thread that I want to post after this one but I'll do it later.
Like the one I posted last time, this documentary also comes in 2 parts. This time, Richard Dawkins examines the world of superstition, new age nonsense and alternative medicine. He basically argues against these things and for people to be skeptics, rather than simply believing everything you're told, read either in books or on the internet or see on television. Since I know that there are in fact some people on WP who believe in such nonsense, (that even includes people who believe conspiracy theories such as the so-called "truthers"), I am hoping this will stimulate debate just like the last time. However, I'm as hopeful as before that they'll participate in this thread, so only hope this will lead to an interesting discussion for those people who do participate.
In the first part of the documentary, entitled "Slaves to Superstition", Dawkins tries to examine why people believe in such things as astrology, dowsing and seances (talking to the dead) but also does little experiments in order to demonstrate that these things in fact do not work. While some superstitions seem pretty harmless, others may not be so harmless. The second part of the documentary, which is also the second video that I'm posting in this thread, is entitled "The Irrational Health Service", where Richard Dawkins examines world of alternative medicine, the distrust people have of mainstream medicine and some of the harm this does to mainstream medicine and public health. For example, he mentions how some children in the UK have gotten mumps and measles after 2 decades of these diseases not being seen because parents refuse have their children vaccinated with MMR vaccines. Of course, we all know why - they believe (incorrectly) that the MMR vaccine causes autism.
Here is part 1 of "Enemies of Reason", entitled "Slaves to Superstition":
Part 2 entitled "The Irrational Health Service" is here:
A quote that is repeated in this documentary:
"It is good to be open-minded, but not so open-minded that your brain falls out" - Carl Sagan
I think that lust for power has no appeal to reason. It is surely the most damaging thing.
Post Modernism has caused much of the present day rush to alternatives. It is the removal of the metanarrative, or story at the heart of our western culture. Not just God is dead, but eveything else along with Him, from History, Math to yes even Philosophy where we have present day philosphers left to talking about other previous philosophers. It has been the breaking down of the foundations of our western society laid by the Renaissance. People no longer have anything much to turn to, so we have a multitude of New Age beliefs flourishing. I might also add it has left room for those with a lust for power. George Bush and our own Tony were surely prime examples.
I love Richard Dawkins documentaries. Sometimes they are so funny. He made me laugh when he asks the woman in the healing centre if she can see his "chakras" under a microscope.
He is the voice of reason and has taken it upon himself to pull us into line. If you ask me we need a man like him to say these things because even though what he says is quite obvious I think modern consumerist society has made us place too much credence in ridiculous ideas.
I sometimes feel angy that at the age of about 7 my mother told me I was Pisces. Then she explained what it meant and I went off and read a book about astrology. At that age I was then conditioned into the notion that my personality was that of what this book stated a Pisces is. I know its crap now, but one issue he didn't touch on in these documentaries is the conditioning we have from childhood about superstition.
The homeopathy is interesting because it seems to work as a placebo. So I don't know if its a bad thing or not. However, I do think we should question science and traditional medicine. I for one am very suspicious of the anti depressants everyone seems to be taking.
BTW if you want to see Richard Dawkins in his element you should watch his Charles Darwin documentary. There are three of them and are all very good where he argues with creationists.
Joined: May 02, 2008 Posts: 2096 Location: Uhhh...Not Remulak
Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:04 am Post subject:
I saw these documentaries earlier. They are well worth watching, and very well done. I discovered Richard Dawkins through a lecture I saw on YouTube by Douglas Adams. Douglas Adams was explaining why he was an atheist, and Richard Dawkins' writings helped Adams to see how a god was not necessary to explain reality. Religion is one more type of superstition, as I now see it. Unlike other superstitions, it is foisted onto young impressionable minds as truth by older and trusted caregivers, who were also similarly indoctrinated. I was raised in a religion called Christian Science which most people would consider weird, and obviously wrong. But it basically took the teachings of the Bible that quoted Jesus (who may himself have been fictional) to their logical extreme. He taught that others could heal as he supposedly did. This upbringing leads to magical thinking, which I have been fighting in myself for quite some time. Reading "The God Delusion" by Dawkins has really helped me. I can recommend it too. One man's cult is another man's religion. I now believe them all to be based on superstition.
Joined: Jul 11, 2008 Age: 33 Posts: 2930 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:03 am Post subject:
Grebels wrote:
I think that lust for power has no appeal to reason. It is surely the most damaging thing.
Post Modernism has caused much of the present day rush to alternatives. It is the removal of the metanarrative, or story at the heart of our western culture. Not just God is dead, but eveything else along with Him, from History, Math to yes even Philosophy where we have present day philosphers left to talking about other previous philosophers. It has been the breaking down of the foundations of our western society laid by the Renaissance. People no longer have anything much to turn to, so we have a multitude of New Age beliefs flourishing. I might also add it has left room for those with a lust for power. George Bush and our own Tony were surely prime examples.
Science and maths are still ongoing but has become more abstract. The New Age stuff actually has its roots in the mid 19th century with the advent of spiritualism etc. I don't think the foundations from from the age of reason has broken down, so much as some people from mid 20th century onwards seem to have started to mistrust scientific thinking.
Joined: Jul 11, 2008 Age: 33 Posts: 2930 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:17 am Post subject:
Robdemanc wrote:
I love Richard Dawkins documentaries. Sometimes they are so funny. He made me laugh when he asks the woman in the healing centre if she can see his "chakras" under a microscope.
He is the voice of reason and has taken it upon himself to pull us into line. If you ask me we need a man like him to say these things because even though what he says is quite obvious I think modern consumerist society has made us place too much credence in ridiculous ideas.
I sometimes feel angy that at the age of about 7 my mother told me I was Pisces. Then she explained what it meant and I went off and read a book about astrology. At that age I was then conditioned into the notion that my personality was that of what this book stated a Pisces is. I know its crap now, but one issue he didn't touch on in these documentaries is the conditioning we have from childhood about superstition.
The homeopathy is interesting because it seems to work as a placebo. So I don't know if its a bad thing or not. However, I do think we should question science and traditional medicine. I for one am very suspicious of the anti depressants everyone seems to be taking.
Yes, I like the documentaries too. I thought it was even more funny when that woman said that the "chakras" were black holes.
In what way are you skeptical of anti-depressants? I think that they do go through clinical trials like most mainstream medicine, although according to the Wikipedia, there does seem to be some controversy over them:
Edit: I've been watching "The Genius of Charles Darwin" on Youtube and I'm liking it. Initially, I was going to post a video of the "Faith School Menace?" documentary for my next thread on the Richard Dawkins documentaries, thinking that the Charles Darwin one probably belongs in the Math, Science and Computers forum. However, since Dawkins debates creationists in it, I think it's also appropriate here.
I think anti depressants are over prescribed and aggessively sold to health professionals by drug companies. And I think the way they work has a strong correlation with the drug MDMA (Ecstasy), it is curious that all modern antidepressants came about after the 1950's when MDMA was first synthesised.
Also there is no proof that depression is caused by a lack of chemicals in the brain, and furthermore the anti depressants do not even increase the chemicals in the brain, they just make them longer acting. I think it is an industry that is chasing big profits rather than helping people.
Joined: May 02, 2008 Posts: 2096 Location: Uhhh...Not Remulak
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:24 pm Post subject:
Grebels wrote:
Could it be that logical thinking in everything gives a sense of security.
I think it does, based on personal experience. I never completely believed in my indoctrination, and that led to being nervous that I was going down the wrong path. The best part is that logical thinking is based on reality. This helps lead to making better decisions than wishful thinking does.
