Joker
Sinn Fein
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Age: 24
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Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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 Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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I do find t interesting that the non theists want theists to hold God morally accountable that the non thiests have no belief in 
The reason we don't is because he is God it's that simple. |
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Lord_Gareth
Velociraptor
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
Posts: 440
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | I do find t interesting that the non theists want theists to hold God morally accountable that the non thiests have no belief in
The reason we don't is because he is God it's that simple. |
More than a thousand years poured into the refinement of theological thought have clearly been wasted. The great Christian thinkers of the Catholic Church and the Protestant Reformation must be turning in their graves.
Like I said before, I'm here (in this thread) trying to understand how the faithful think. It's a fair question. I'm just kinda depressed that most folks answer, "Well, because he's God," since that response indicates a complete and total failure to think whatsoever.
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Joker
Sinn Fein
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Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Lord_Gareth wrote: | | Joker wrote: | I do find t interesting that the non theists want theists to hold God morally accountable that the non thiests have no belief in
The reason we don't is because he is God it's that simple. |
More than a thousand years poured into the refinement of theological thought have clearly been wasted. The great Christian thinkers of the Catholic Church and the Protestant Reformation must be turning in their graves.
Like I said before, I'm here (in this thread) trying to understand how the faithful think. It's a fair question. I'm just kinda depressed that most folks answer, "Well, because he's God," since that response indicates a complete and total failure to think whatsoever. |
I can put it this way the faithful views God as loving and vengful he does things that not even those who whorship him will understand.
I can understand why the non religious would be curious and the theists are just as curisous as to why they don't believe in God.
To me God is absolute authority I follow his laws because I both love and fear him.
And your right about the great christian thinkers of the Catholic Church and the Protestant Refomration would be turning in their graves because their was much more understanding and at that time the religious kept their faith to themselfs as a community. |
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shrox
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 12, 2011
Posts: 3254
Location: OK let's go.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Lord_Gareth wrote: |
More than a thousand years poured into the refinement of theological thought have clearly been wasted. The great Christian thinkers of the Catholic Church and the Protestant Reformation must be turning in their graves... |
I wonder if that spinning could be harnessed as a potential energy source. |
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Lord_Gareth
Velociraptor
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
Posts: 440
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| shrox wrote: | | Lord_Gareth wrote: |
More than a thousand years poured into the refinement of theological thought have clearly been wasted. The great Christian thinkers of the Catholic Church and the Protestant Reformation must be turning in their graves... |
I wonder if that spinning could be harnessed as a potential energy source. |
I love you for that reference. Take me in a manly fashion.
(Not trying to rush your thought processes or anything, just wondering if you'd thought more about my earlier points that you'd said you were considering.)
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abacacus
Rock 'N Roll Outlaw
Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Age: 21
Posts: 3315
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | e's God," since that response indicates a complete and total failure to think whatsoever. |
I can put it this way the faithful views God as loving and vengful he does things that not even those who whorship him will understand.
I can understand why the non religious would be curious and the theists are just as curisous as to why they don't believe in God.
To me God is absolute authority I follow his laws because I both love and fear him.
And your right about the great christian thinkers of the Catholic Church and the Protestant Refomration would be turning in their graves because their was much more understanding and at that time the religious kept their faith to themselfs as a community.[/quote]
Which is exactly why we're curious. You make it sound like if the bible said "on the third day of your 84'th year of life, you must rip out your heart with a rusty metal spoon" you would do so, with no second thoughts about it. You aren't any better than a suicide cultist, but you try and say god is loving... despite how you "fear" him for his frequent homicidal rages.
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| abacacus wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | e's God," since that response indicates a complete and total failure to think whatsoever. |
I can put it this way the faithful views God as loving and vengful he does things that not even those who whorship him will understand.
I can understand why the non religious would be curious and the theists are just as curisous as to why they don't believe in God.
To me God is absolute authority I follow his laws because I both love and fear him.
And your right about the great christian thinkers of the Catholic Church and the Protestant Refomration would be turning in their graves because their was much more understanding and at that time the religious kept their faith to themselfs as a community. |
Which is exactly why we're curious. You make it sound like if the bible said "on the third day of your 84'th year of life, you must rip out your heart with a rusty metal spoon" you would do so, with no second thoughts about it. You aren't any better than a suicide cultist, but you try and say god is loving... despite how you "fear" him for his frequent homicidal rages.[/quote]
Since no passage in the bible says to do that your arguement has no value hence makes no since  |
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abacacus
Rock 'N Roll Outlaw
Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Age: 21
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: |
Since no passage in the bible says to do that your arguement has no value hence makes no since |
O_o
Obviously you don't grasp the concept of a hypothetical situation then.
All right, here's a question, if you fear your god so much why do you ignore a rather impressive chunk of what he tells you to do?
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| abacacus wrote: | | Joker wrote: |
Since no passage in the bible says to do that your arguement has no value hence makes no since |
O_o
Obviously you don't grasp the concept of a hypothetical situation then.
All right, here's a question, if you fear your god so much why do you ignore a rather impressive chunk of what he tells you to do? |
I don't ignore anything he tells me to do not dong the things he said in the old testement will not make me a non believer that question. Has very little relevance I am a proestant we view the laws in the bible diffrently from Catholics who follow the whole book. And those laws btw that your speaking of where in effect befor the birth of Christ they where relevant because it was the only way to be forgiven of sins.
And I am a proestant we went through reformation to be more civil and less barbaric meaning those laws started playing less of a role in teh proestant church. And Catholics view you and me the same so not even my own ikind get along. |
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abacacus
Rock 'N Roll Outlaw
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Show me where it says you don't have to follow the old testament. I can show you where the new testament says you must follow them:
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:17-19 (King James)
Last I checked, the Earth is still here. That's Jesus talking, by the way. He's straight up telling you NOT to do what you're doing and ignore the OT, until heaven and earth are gone.
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We'll not rest until the purge is complete
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shrox
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 12, 2011
Posts: 3254
Location: OK let's go.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| abacacus wrote: | Show me where it says you don't have to follow the old testament. I can show you where the new testament says you must follow them:
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:17-19 (King James)
Last I checked, the Earth is still here. That's Jesus talking, by the way. He's straight up telling you NOT to do what you're doing and ignore the OT, until heaven and earth are gone. |
I think the idea of old vs. new is more about acknowledging the spirit of the law rather than the word. It's easy to follow the law to the letter, yet that often catches people in very minor and "pretend" offenses, but it is also wrong to fit the law to an individual circumstance. When the woman caught in adultery was brought before Jesus, he did not weight her guilt, or consider just what degree of guilt she had, he simply acknowledged the sin, and told to do it no more. Even then his coming death was used to free her from any punishment she might be due under the law.
How? He had never done wrong. This was probably through a series of conscious moves on his part, truly avoiding "sin". He did not deserve to be killed, yet he was. His innocent death replaces the death required from her guilt under the law. During his time even, if you could find someone to take your punishment, that's OK under the Roman law and Jewish custom. People even made money serving time for minor offenses for the rich. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| shrox wrote: | | abacacus wrote: | Show me where it says you don't have to follow the old testament. I can show you where the new testament says you must follow them:
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:17-19 (King James)
Last I checked, the Earth is still here. That's Jesus talking, by the way. He's straight up telling you NOT to do what you're doing and ignore the OT, until heaven and earth are gone. |
I think the idea of old vs. new is more about acknowledging the spirit of the law rather than the word. It's easy to follow the law to the letter, yet that often catches people in very minor and "pretend" offenses, but it is also wrong to fit the law to an individual circumstance. When the woman caught in adultery was brought before Jesus, he did not weight her guilt, or consider just what degree of guilt she had, he simply acknowledged the sin, and told to do it no more. Even then his coming death was used to free her from any punishment she might be due under the law.
How? He had never done wrong. This was probably through a series of conscious moves on his part, truly avoiding "sin". He did not deserve to be killed, yet he was. His innocent death replaces the death required from her guilt under the law. During his time even, if you could find someone to take your punishment, that's OK under the Roman law and Jewish custom. People even made money serving time for minor offenses for the rich. |
Pretty much what Shrox said I agree with but to be honest a atheist telling me how to follow my religion which they don't believe in the first place is a fallacy. |
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abacacus
Rock 'N Roll Outlaw
Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Age: 21
Posts: 3315
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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No more of a fallacy than saying god is all knowing and such (which christians do all the time) and then saying "but I know better!", which they also do. All the time.
Personally, I find it quite funny.
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A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown. |
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shrox
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 12, 2011
Posts: 3254
Location: OK let's go.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| abacacus wrote: | No more of a fallacy than saying god is all knowing and such (which christians do all the time) and then saying "but I know better!", which they also do. All the time.
Personally, I find it quite funny. |
Why can't God be all knowing? Yes, I realize this requires a supposition that he exists. So grant that, then answer. |
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abacacus
Rock 'N Roll Outlaw
Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Age: 21
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| shrox wrote: | | abacacus wrote: | No more of a fallacy than saying god is all knowing and such (which christians do all the time) and then saying "but I know better!", which they also do. All the time.
Personally, I find it quite funny. |
Why can't God be all knowing? Yes, I realize this requires a supposition that he exists. So grant that, then answer. |
The all knowing bit isn't what I find funny (granting god exists, him being omnipotent is kind of part of the job description). What I find funny, is the people who believe in him constantly trying to squirm out of many of his commands by essentially saying "no he didn't actually mean that, he can't of" which is *heavily* implying "it doesn't matter what he actually said, because I know better than what he said so I know what he really meant."
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We'll not rest until the purge is complete
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