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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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 Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Got a problem with God Fire away |
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| HerrGrimm wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | Yes indeed it does the bible has a lot of hidden meanings behind each story. |
Not if you take it literally. |
Yes not if you take it literally of course but you can peel back certin things then it makes more since once you decode it. |
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soutthpaw
Snowy Owl
Joined: May 01, 2012
Age: 42
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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I am Atheist but do not have a problem with any god/s specifically as any god by themselves has no impact or control on my life. What I have a problem with is Organized Religion and/or Theists who via politics, intimidation, terrorism, manipulation etc. impose their religious doctrine upon the world I live in and thwart the truth to manipulate government and people. I also see that what people call extremists tend to actually be those who are more closely trying to follow the religious doctrines they claim are devine teachings. you could replace extremist with orthodox and it would not change the true intent of those believers.
Both the Bible and Koran demand that non-believers or Infidels be converted or the latte,r Killed if that cannot be accomplished.
Don't tell me who I can love or who can or cannot have an abortion, don't limit scientific research such as stem cell research. Don't kill people in the name of your god or because they someone chooses to worship differently or a different god or none at all.
I am good and do good kind things just because its human nature and its the right thing to do . I don't need a threat of eternal damnation or eternal salvation to do what is right.
I actually am quite fascinated with faith and mythology. What I am never able to grasp is how so many humans throughout time are able to believe fantasy and fiction to be truth. The only difference between religion and mythology is time. because during mythology was religion during the time the followers of those beliefs existed. in a few thousand years, if humans still exist, they will probably read stories of christian, muslim , jewish mythology etc.
Let me remind you the proof for the existence of God rests with the believers not with the skeptics. If the ability to prove or disprove something is equal then it becomes useless to even argue it.
Thus the Flying Spagetti Monster or the Invisible Pink Unicorn or the Dragon that lives in my garage (Richard Dawkins) all have equal probability of being or not being true.
Faith.. on which all religion is based is defined as believing to be true that which cannot be proven or disproven buy current observable or scientific abilities of humans...
Look at other Religions such as Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism even Hinduism. How many of these do you see declaring war or trying to convert others that do not believe the same way they do??? Prolethetlize (sp) various 2nd and 3 world countries to increase their control and power et. Some religions are actually about living in peace and harmony with nature, humanity and spirituality... Others are about theopolitical power, control and manipulation of humanity. While I may not believe in their gods, I can respect and believe in many of their teachings because they have a strong humanistic focus. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| soutthpaw wrote: |
Look at other Religions such as Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism even Hinduism. How many of these do you see declaring war or trying to convert others that do not believe the same way they do??? Prolethetlize (sp) various 2nd and 3 world countries to increase their control and power et. Some religions are actually about living in peace and harmony with nature, humanity and spirituality... Others are about theopolitical power, control and manipulation of humanity. While I may not believe in their gods, I can respect and believe in many of their teachings because they have a strong humanistic focus. |
Very true both in China and in Japan Asia based religion plays a huge role in politics like Confucianism and Shinto. Not just the Jewish Muslim or Christian religion. |
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lilbetta
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Age: 22
Posts: 153
Location: my own lil world
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Got a problem with God Fire away |
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| HerrGrimm wrote: | | lilbetta wrote: | okay that is it 1st question please  |
OK, I have one:
What is so special about the Burning Bush "miracle"? Bushes burn all the time. And I am willing to bet I can get a tree to talk to me more sensibly and coherently than "I am who am". How this was the only burning bush that could do this? Did God just realize this was not really a miracle that bushes could burn and gave it up? Does anyone ever stop to put out a burning bush and realize God might be talking to them right now? I don't think so. If I saw a burning bush, I would have put it out and all the Jews would be doomed. I am not a very good leader in real life anyway. |
the thing is according to the bible the fire was not consuming the bush ( a thorn bush to be specific) and what set this bush apart is that it was only one bush kust a random bush... God could have chosen mor magnificent ways to enter the "scene" but that is NOT his style... and when Moses approached the Bush it spoke to him... even if he had the intention of puttng it out, the fact that it was not consuming itself can lead us to assume it could not be put out anyway by Moses... Even assuming he could put it out he did not get close enough before it spoke out to him... all i know is if a bush spoke to me i would either stop dead in my tracks or turn tail and run... |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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If a burning bush starting talking to me I would at least hear would it has to say befor I ran away from it  |
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edgewaters
hibernating
Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 2426
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | If a burning bush starting talking to me I would at least hear would it has to say befor I ran away from it |
Of course, so that it could be dutifully reported to one's psychiatrist. |
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Vigilans
Orgasm Donor
Joined: Jun 20, 2008
Age: 24
Posts: 12088
Location: La belle province
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | If a burning bush starting talking to me I would at least hear would it has to say befor I ran away from it |
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| edgewaters wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | If a burning bush starting talking to me I would at least hear would it has to say befor I ran away from it |
Of course, so that it could be dutifully reported to one's psychiatrist. |
I don't have a psychiatrist I'm Irish they don't work on people like me. |
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soutthpaw
Snowy Owl
Joined: May 01, 2012
Age: 42
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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To the OP, you do realize you opened Pandora's Box, right?
Oh what about all the Native American religions that christanity tried to crush and destroy in their continued quest for land, power and control? how does your God justify that?
Maybe as AS people we are the next stage of evolution. more likely to believe science over religion, decreased desire to congrgrate into groups and large masses (religion) and less likely to want to control and kill other populations... We exist now to cast enough doubt to stop warring religions from wiping out the race over theoretical differences.. because now is the first time in human history we have developed the technology to do what orthodox religion has commanded for thousands of years... eliminate the competition (infidels and non-believers) |
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lilbetta
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Age: 22
Posts: 153
Location: my own lil world
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| soutthpaw wrote: | I am Atheist but do not have a problem with any god/s specifically as any god by themselves has no impact or control on my life. What I have a problem with is Organized Religion and/or Theists who via politics, intimidation, terrorism, manipulation etc. impose their religious doctrine upon the world I live in and thwart the truth to manipulate government and people. I also see that what people call extremists tend to actually be those who are more closely trying to follow the religious doctrines they claim are devine teachings. you could replace extremist with orthodox and it would not change the true intent of those believers.
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agreed with this part |
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blauSamstag
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 06, 2011
Posts: 1880
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | edgewaters wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | If a burning bush starting talking to me I would at least hear would it has to say befor I ran away from it |
Of course, so that it could be dutifully reported to one's psychiatrist. |
I don't have a psychiatrist I'm Irish they don't work on people like me. |
Is that what the drinking is about?
(I kid, i kid . . . ) |
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HerrGrimm
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 19, 2011
Posts: 963
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | HerrGrimm wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | Yes indeed it does the bible has a lot of hidden meanings behind each story. |
Not if you take it literally. |
Yes not if you take it literally of course but you can peel back certin things then it makes more since once you decode it. |
I think you missed the hidden meaning of what I said.
| Joker wrote: | | If a burning bush starting talking to me I would at least hear would it has to say befor I ran away from it |
And if it said an illogical sentence like "I am who am", what would you do? Not as a Christian, they didn't exist back then. As a typical human being.
This whole Bible is illogical. Think about it:
Jesus is standing before trial. He told everyone to keep quiet, he said Lazarus and Jairus's daughter were just sleeping, and if he said to me "I am who you say I am" to the King of the Jews question, I would have no reason to believe he is if I was Roman, nor would I believe he is the Son of God if he did not do any miracles by his own word. I would think he is just some random guy off the street being scapegoated and let him go. How he died is amazingly redonkulous. It is like he did not want to do it. If I was going to kill myself I at least would do something to get there. This book is silly...
Even though I have to say, he might be the Son of God, because he might have used homeopathy to ultra-dilute the fish and loaves into enough to feed that many people. THAT would be a miracle.
Sorry, tangent...
Next question:
Why did God make the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? Who was supposed to eat from it, and if no one was supposed to eat from it, why did he make it to have edible food on it? If other animals ate the fruit, I hope the fruit did not have seeds, because you could have had that farmer-and-the-seed parable be real life. For all I know the world would be covered with Trees of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
And why are Christians not nudists, if clothing yourself was so bad?
_________________
"You just like to go around rebuking people with your ravenous wolf face and snarling commentary." - Ragtime
Last edited by HerrGrimm on Wed May 02, 2012 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lilbetta
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Age: 22
Posts: 153
Location: my own lil world
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| soutthpaw wrote: | To the OP, you do realize you opened Pandora's Box, right?
Oh what about all the Native American religions that christanity tried to crush and destroy in their continued quest for land, power and control? how does your God justify that?
Maybe as AS people we are the next stage of evolution. more likely to believe science over religion, decreased desire to congrgrate into groups and large masses (religion) and less likely to want to control and kill other populations... We exist now to cast enough doubt to stop warring religions from wiping out the race over theoretical differences.. because now is the first time in human history we have developed the technology to do what orthodox religion has commanded for thousands of years... eliminate the competition (infidels and non-believers) |
I AM SOOOO GLAD u mentioned this! (btw i said i knew what i was doing by opening this topic)
I LOVE the native american topic and i get a LOT of crap from fellow christians from this but my "momabear" who also happens to be a pastor has talked about me with this and we have come to an agreement that has a lot of christians kinda irked...
i originally started studying this by asking the questin what happens to people like the mentally insane or people who are not exposed to christ... this topic got boradened to the question about who will be i heaven and such...
When it comes to the Native Americans sure some of them were exposed to the concept of christianity but as christians i beleive just telling them about it is not enough.. The Native American people are a VERY spiritual people and they were not informed enough about christ to make a decision for themselves and in mayny cases the only way they were exposed to christianity was through conquest and bloodshed.. But like i said these people were Very spiritual people and very in touch with the earth and the creatures upon it... My beleif is that YES these people will actually go to heaven because they beleived in a God and were very in touch with thier spiritual side... it is not thier fault that they were not properly introduced to the idea of Jesus, and so therefore they should not be held to that same standard... Basically what i am saying here goes agaisnt the one main creed of christianity which is you HAVE to accept christ in your heart as lord and savior BUT if someone does not have enough information about christ to make a decision on their won how can they be held responsible to the same standards... as long as they live good life and practice basic morality and beleive in a divine being out there somewhere i beleive they have the right to be in heaven just a much as anybody else... Jesus taught to love one another (no athiest can dispute that). i beleive when people get to heaven especially these so called devout christians they are gonna be shocke by who is up there with them... |
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HerrGrimm
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 19, 2011
Posts: 963
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| lilbetta wrote: | | ...i beleive when people get to heaven especially these so called devout christians they are gonna be shocke by who is up there with them... |
I was thinking about that as well...
What is your definition of sin? Because if it involves a willing and knowledgeable act against God, wouldn't it be better for people to NOT know God so they can get into heaven for not sinning? According to that logic, only Christians would be in Hell because they are the only ones capable of sin. If you say people are getting in without being Christian, your definition of sin is very important.
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"You just like to go around rebuking people with your ravenous wolf face and snarling commentary." - Ragtime |
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snapcap
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 13, 2011
Age: 31
Posts: 2328
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Does datura grow in that part of the world? Maybe it was a burning datura plant.
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*some atheist walks outside and picks up stick*
some atheist to stick: "You're like me!" |
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