Joined: Aug 12, 2011 Posts: 3254 Location: OK let's go.
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:38 pm Post subject: What is proof of God?
What if a death experience like this was recorded? What if several experiences like this could be recorded, showing it repeatable? Would that be "proof of God"?
I have anticipated some answers and responses, such as "maybe it's just a common death experience, or the last vestiges of consciousness slipping away". Whether such a recording was (A) truly a conciseness leaving the body to be with God, or (B) merely the process of a shut down of consciousness, you would still have to make a choice. Whether it is A or B (or I just don't care...).
No real proof of God can ever be provided, other that God himself appearing before all. That is coming, but until then, belief of the "reality of God" is a choice. Once proof is shown, then only acceptance or denial are possible.
What would you make of such a recording? It would be proof of something, but what?
I would have some thinking to do after a lot of research. _________________ A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.
Joined: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 14856 Location: A beautiful vector among many
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:55 pm Post subject:
If the same path of inquiry that lead us to reductionist materialism leads us out of it that'll be an irrelevant question. I don't know how much proof there is for anything at all, anywhere, so the question in itself might be half-vacuous. We typically have theories at the end of the food chain and even there its just a statement that many scientists doing the same work come to the same conclusion often enough that its a repeatedly usable bit of information.
Needless to say if the results of studies like AWARE begin to take the mind/body dualistic NDE hypothesis past the line of anecdote we'll essentially have a new mainstream branch of inquiry that will draw the sharpest minds in. The biggest effort at first would be establishing the questions, establishing the tests, and establishing the criteria for where we wanted to test the 'supernatural' outside the scope of human experience and what on earth you'd use to record, take measurements, etc.. If that situation happens - we're in a much different scenario that we've been in for the last couple hundred years.
Joined: Mar 20, 2011 Age: 24 Posts: 7593 Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: What is proof of God?
shrox wrote:
What if a death experience like this was recorded? What if several experiences like this could be recorded, showing it repeatable? Would that be "proof of God"?
I have anticipated some answers and responses, such as "maybe it's just a common death experience, or the last vestiges of consciousness slipping away". Whether such a recording was (A) truly a conciseness leaving the body to be with God, or (B) merely the process of a shut down of consciousness, you would still have to make a choice. Whether it is A or B (or I just don't care...).
No real proof of God can ever be provided, other that God himself appearing before all. That is coming, but until then, belief of the "reality of God" is a choice. Once proof is shown, then only acceptance or denial are possible.
What would you make of such a recording? It would be proof of something, but what?
That is a very good question how would the people of no faith be able to answer such a question.
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: What is proof of God?
shrox wrote:
What if a death experience like this was recorded? What if several experiences like this could be recorded, showing it repeatable? Would that be "proof of God"?
I have anticipated some answers and responses, such as "maybe it's just a common death experience, or the last vestiges of consciousness slipping away". Whether such a recording was (A) truly a conciseness leaving the body to be with God, or (B) merely the process of a shut down of consciousness, you would still have to make a choice. Whether it is A or B (or I just don't care...).
No real proof of God can ever be provided, other that God himself appearing before all. That is coming, but until then, belief of the "reality of God" is a choice. Once proof is shown, then only acceptance or denial are possible.
What would you make of such a recording? It would be proof of something, but what?
No. Proof of your God would be The Second Coming/The Rapture/Armageddon etc. He never said He'll be revealed in near-death experiences, why do people actually think of it as proof?
Joined: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 14856 Location: A beautiful vector among many
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: What is proof of God?
Bun wrote:
No. Proof of your God would be The Second Coming/The Rapture/Armageddon etc. He never said He'll be revealed in near-death experiences, why do people actually think of it as proof?
Heh, we better ask Shrox on this.
Shrox: Are we talking about proof of 'your' God or 'a' God?
Joined: Mar 20, 2011 Age: 24 Posts: 7593 Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: What is proof of God?
Bun wrote:
shrox wrote:
What if a death experience like this was recorded? What if several experiences like this could be recorded, showing it repeatable? Would that be "proof of God"?
I have anticipated some answers and responses, such as "maybe it's just a common death experience, or the last vestiges of consciousness slipping away". Whether such a recording was (A) truly a conciseness leaving the body to be with God, or (B) merely the process of a shut down of consciousness, you would still have to make a choice. Whether it is A or B (or I just don't care...).
No real proof of God can ever be provided, other that God himself appearing before all. That is coming, but until then, belief of the "reality of God" is a choice. Once proof is shown, then only acceptance or denial are possible.
What would you make of such a recording? It would be proof of something, but what?
No. Proof of your God would be The Second Coming/The Rapture/Armageddon etc. He never said He'll be revealed in near-death experiences, why do people actually think of it as proof?
Because their is more ways to see God a near death experience is a good way for some people to find proof.
How do you put it together with what Jesus said about false prophets? He said a lot of prophecies before he returns would be false. So maybe it's just 'fools and children', as the saying goes, who'd believe this sort of proof?
Joined: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 14856 Location: A beautiful vector among many
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:27 pm Post subject:
Bun wrote:
How do you put it together with what Jesus said about false prophets? He said a lot of prophecies before he returns would be false. So maybe it's just 'fools and children', as the saying goes, who'd believe this sort of proof?
Lol, well if you believe in the infallibility of the Holy Bible what other proof do you personally need? This probably wouldn't be your kind of thread with that taken into account.
I just know the texts... But then, he gave the people he was talking to actual proof, didn't he? I'm not struggling with my faith or 'proving' the bible, my argument is that Jesus talked to people who saw him in person, so they weren't, by definition, people who had a metaphysical experience going on absolutely nothing... they can be seeing a daemon, which by definition distract you and deceive you into believing something which isn't true. But maybe I AM over-thinking it biblically.
Did you find anything in the scriptures about God doing things without leaving physical proof of his work?
I think that's my cognitive dissonance, a lot of the biblical miracles had physical consequence (going by the text), as opposed to the much looser way 'miracle' is used today.
Joined: Mar 20, 2011 Age: 24 Posts: 7593 Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject:
Bun wrote:
Did you find anything in the scriptures about God doing things without leaving physical proof of his work?
I think that's my cognitive dissonance, a lot of the biblical miracles had physical consequence (going by the text), as opposed to the much looser way 'miracle' is used today.
Their is proof that a fire did destroy the city Sodom and Gomorrah.
And back on topic, there isn't proof of people seeing God on their deathbed...
I don't see much sense in God being shown to people who lose conciousness for a few seconds, even on an idea level. It's a contradiction, didn't anyone think about the fact that these people did NOT die or pass over? They were still alive.
Joined: Mar 20, 2011 Age: 24 Posts: 7593 Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:04 pm Post subject:
Bun wrote:
And back on topic, there isn't proof of people seeing God on their deathbed...
I don't see much sense in God being shown to people who lose conciousness for a few seconds, even on an idea level. It's a contradiction, didn't anyone think about the fact that these people did NOT die or pass over? They were still alive.
It wouldn't be a near death experience if they died
