I'm just going to say, from reading a few posts, I noticed there was mention of poking the eyes, groin shots, and other "Cheap shots" I'll call em, being used in a real street fight. Unless you are 100 percent confident you can beat that person, or run away after hurting them those ways, it's a terrible idea to do something like that. Those are the sort of actions that can turn a typical scrap into a murder scene.
Joined: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 14856 Location: A beautiful vector among many
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:48 am Post subject:
Pondering wrote:
I'm just going to say, from reading a few posts, I noticed there was mention of poking the eyes, groin shots, and other "Cheap shots" I'll call em, being used in a real street fight. Unless you are 100 percent confident you can beat that person, or run away after hurting them those ways, it's a terrible idea to do something like that. Those are the sort of actions that can turn a typical scrap into a murder scene.
Yeah, they're typically things that you'd do if you're trying to go the other route and turn what would have been a murder scene (you) into running away or subduing the person when you can't run. Clearly if someone does do something like that though they really need to keep pounding on the person, not step back and see if it worked or not while the other person regains their focus.
There are some gross misconceptions about those killer shots, dim maks whatever.
The chance of you poking an eye against a reactive oponent is really slim. And even if they weren't, poking an eye is really taking the fight to another level, so be very careful.
Last edited by alex_br on Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:53 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 14856 Location: A beautiful vector among many
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject:
It seems like the progression is getting into someone's guard or attacking their guard, stunning them, stunning them harder and harder, using each reflex reaction to line one shot into the next, and really nothing complex is much an option until they're pretty much gone upstairs but possibly still standing. Also, doing dim mak (ie. strikes to the head, neck, throat etc. supported from the other side) its quite a novel situation, in the worst possible sense, and its *never* something you'd do in anything like a normal circumstance. For it to even make sense they'd not only have to be out to kill you but they'd either have to be of the variety that they'd never stop or, alternately, there are five people trying to kill you and you need to make a blatant example of someone - fast.
One thing I hate to hear about people who practice MMA, or a single martial art is when parents talk about how their little 6-10 year old kid can take out an adult man. That makes me mad to hear. People who say that are 9/10 either liars, have no idea what they are talking about, never fought, and they put too much confidence in their kid's abilities. There are some very rare cases though, but it's very rare and those kids aren't practicing manipulation of the wrists, karate chops, tiger claws or anything of that nature. Some of the Muay Thai fighters in Thailand are only 10 years old and have dangerous striking that could seriously injure a lot of adults in a fight, but most probably not someone who heavily outweighs them, is quite a bit taller, or knows some striking/grappling. Muay Thai is a massive tradition in Thailand though, and you don't see those kind of kids in most other places unfortunately.
Somewhat still on topic, anyone hear about Thailands ban on MMA? The reason they do it from what I gather is because Muay Thai is such a large tradition there, they don't want to risk MMA taking over, like it has taken over a bunch of popularity from Boxing in other parts of the world, probably most notable one being America. It's the reason NYC hasn't legalized MMA there yet, because of oldschool boxing tradition and politicians who get paid to say MMA is more dangeorous than boxing, when boxing has killed people and MMA has not.
Joined: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 14856 Location: A beautiful vector among many
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:59 pm Post subject:
Yeah, that's a bit absurd. I think the only way to even relate the conversation is say - hypothetically - like meets like. 260 pound guys vs. each other with same aptitude, drive, and amount of training but one art vs. the other, two 130 lb young women with same drive, atptitude, etc. but different art.
With kids, and a large extent women as well - its really stun, run, and if you're really cornered find an equalizer and be trained well enough not to have it outright taken away from you.
Yeah, that's a bit absurd. I think the only way to even relate the conversation is say - hypothetically - like meets like. 260 pound guys vs. each other with same aptitude, drive, and amount of training but one art vs. the other, two 130 lb young women with same drive, atptitude, etc. but different art.
With kids, and a large extent women as well - its really stun, run, and if you're really cornered find an equalizer and be trained well enough not to have it outright taken away from you.
That's a good way to put it. Both people would have a decent chance against another, but if you put up two very different types of people like kid vs man, man would win most of the time, even vs two kids.
That's true, in Karate we learned to break the nose with an upward palm strike. It wouldn't take somebody out, but it could if you did it with the right technique, speed, positioning, and power very temporarily disable a larger attacker so you could get away. _________________ "You know, the blues ain't nothing but a worried ole heart disease"-Son House
Joined: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 14856 Location: A beautiful vector among many
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:57 pm Post subject:
Pondering wrote:
That's true, in Karate we learned to break the nose with an upward palm strike. It wouldn't take somebody out, but it could if you did it with the right technique, speed, positioning, and power very temporarily disable a larger attacker so you could get away.
The really sad news for me right now is our instructors really turning into a dick and with every passing belt it seems like he gets weirder and weirder toward higher level students. All the same though what I've loved about the art so far is the ability to 'break the machine' (I think Dox said it well), that there's nothing they can't give you that can't be turned to their detriment - whether its brushing their fists to the point of your elbow, punching the brachial nerve as you pass while clapping from the other side, and the Wing Chun sensitivity and trapping takes a whole other dimension in the sense that there's practically never a time where you're strictly 'blocking', its always simultaneously block-strike, whether two hands or a block actually simultaneously being a strike by the same device; that and, I've never seen previous in martial arts the low to low attacks like kicking/kneeing the knees, destabilizing, even leg to leg compression (leg/ankle sectoring). Yes, the stuff can look crazy cerebral and yes - people can argue that you may never use most of it but, that's not really the point; ideally you'll never have to so much as use your fists in your life anyway from that point forward. The point is - taking the apponents energy, seeing what they've already thrown themselves 2/3 of the way into; either by committing to a strike, reacting to one of your conterstrikes, and from there the seemingly crazy stuff you learned just seems to disappear and people can hardly tell how you dropped them that fast (obviously the more complex the more punch-drunk they need to be), but a lot of the stuff that people just think is unrealistically complicated - its not about setting out to use it in a fight, its knowing how to do it all the way down to the point of recall. The point of repetition of any kind is getting to where you just do it and there's zero 'stop and analyze'.
As of right now I'm really hoping I can find another Kali/FMA school in the area - particularly if things keep flaking out the way they've been at my school. Its not that I'd turn down things that I think could add to it, just that I really want to get some type of Inosanto Kali certification and have the skills to back it up. The trick I guess will just be finding the environment with enough consistency.
That's true, in Karate we learned to break the nose with an upward palm strike. It wouldn't take somebody out, but it could if you did it with the right technique, speed, positioning, and power very temporarily disable a larger attacker so you could get away.
The really sad news for me right now is our instructors really turning into a dick and with every passing belt it seems like he gets weirder and weirder toward higher level students. All the same though what I've loved about the art so far is the ability to 'break the machine' (I think Dox said it well), that there's nothing they can't give you that can't be turned to their detriment - whether its brushing their fists to the point of your elbow, punching the brachial nerve as you pass while clapping from the other side, and the Wing Chun sensitivity and trapping takes a whole other dimension in the sense that there's practically never a time where you're strictly 'blocking', its always simultaneously block-strike, whether two hands or a block actually simultaneously being a strike by the same device; that and, I've never seen previous in martial arts the low to low attacks like kicking/kneeing the knees, destabilizing, even leg to leg compression (leg/ankle sectoring). Yes, the stuff can look crazy cerebral and yes - people can argue that you may never use most of it but, that's not really the point; ideally you'll never have to so much as use your fists in your life anyway from that point forward. The point is - taking the apponents energy, seeing what they've already thrown themselves 2/3 of the way into; either by committing to a strike, reacting to one of your conterstrikes, and from there the seemingly crazy stuff you learned just seems to disappear and people can hardly tell how you dropped them that fast (obviously the more complex the more punch-drunk they need to be), but a lot of the stuff that people just think is unrealistically complicated - its not about setting out to use it in a fight, its knowing how to do it all the way down to the point of recall. The point of repetition of any kind is getting to where you just do it and there's zero 'stop and analyze'.
As of right now I'm really hoping I can find another Kali/FMA school in the area - particularly if things keep flaking out the way they've been at my school. Its not that I'd turn down things that I think could add to it, just that I really want to get some type of Inosanto Kali certification and have the skills to back it up. The trick I guess will just be finding the environment with enough consistency.
That is too bad about your instructor. I wonder why he is like that? I've seen it happen before with a past instructor in a JJ gym, ended up bad for him.
I think I see where you are coming from. People are not actually naturally meant to strike with the knuckles, that's a good way to break them actually. A lot of people don't realize how hard a skull is, it takes practice to hitting the bag and pads to not hurt yourself or not feel pain from hitting something hard with your knuckles. Palm strikes used to be in some MMA orgs, but using the knuckles is just more popular due to current culture. Coincidentally, it's the reason for most hand breaks that occur. I can't comment on Wing chung or anything like that, I don't really know much about it, heard some about it, mostly bad, but I still can't really give a intelligent opinion on it. I prefer more popular types of martial arts, which MMA fighters generally use as their base. Speaking of blocking and striking at once, I was taught early on in boxing training, to throw a jab with your shoulder extended near the jaw, it protects the side of your jaw with the shoulder, while you are also throwing a solid punch. LAter on we learned to throw other punches the same way. Another great thing you can do if you got a hard head like I do, is practice headbutting someone's punches. If you catch them at the right time, before they go all in with the punch, it can catch them off guard and break the wrists. I also learned this in a boxing class. You can see it happen in a lot of pro boxing matches if you watch closely. Practicing until you pretty much don't even have to think, but it becomes instinctual, I think is the goal of all legit Martial Artists. I think about the basics of JJ, I practiced for many months. I could still do it with my eyes closed, say for instance something gets in my eye and I have a person on the bottom. I would know what to do because it has been basically ingrained in my mind, and because I thought about it and did it so often.
What is Kali/FMA? Who knows, if you can't, maybe it would be good to try a new art out? I may get back into JJ, Eddie Bravo one of the top modern JJ instructors is coming to host a seminar here soon, so I'm thinking about going, and if I enjoy myself, I may join his gym. One thing I like about them is they use no gi. It's a little bit different than having one, which I trained with in most of my JJ classes I've taken. I dunno, I feel constricted wearing gi's these days and there are a lot of moves with gi's that won't work with your every day normal person who'd like a scrap. I do most of my training for self defense, in case I ever need to defend myself, so it's good to know a bit of both worlds gi and no gi. _________________ "You know, the blues ain't nothing but a worried ole heart disease"-Son House
Joined: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 14856 Location: A beautiful vector among many
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:22 am Post subject:
Pondering wrote:
What is Kali/FMA?
I think this is a pretty good representation - Dan Inosanto at the Smithsonian demonstrating FMA (Filipino Martial Arts). The only thing you don't really see here is a particularly big amount of empty hands - a lot of it is panantukan (Filipino boxing) but the trapping as I mentioned adds a lot of extra dimension. What I'd add as well - everything they're doing with sticks or knives, all of it can translate quite directly to empty hands with little in the way of overt changes:
One thing I hate to hear about people who practice MMA, or a single martial art is when parents talk about how their little 6-10 year old kid can take out an adult man. That makes me mad to hear. People who say that are 9/10 either liars, have no idea what they are talking about, never fought, and they put too much confidence in their kid's abilities. There are some very rare cases though, but it's very rare and those kids aren't practicing manipulation of the wrists, karate chops, tiger claws or anything of that nature. Some of the Muay Thai fighters in Thailand are only 10 years old and have dangerous striking that could seriously injure a lot of adults in a fight, but most probably not someone who heavily outweighs them, is quite a bit taller, or knows some striking/grappling. Muay Thai is a massive tradition in Thailand though, and you don't see those kind of kids in most other places unfortunately.
Somewhat still on topic, anyone hear about Thailands ban on MMA? The reason they do it from what I gather is because Muay Thai is such a large tradition there, they don't want to risk MMA taking over, like it has taken over a bunch of popularity from Boxing in other parts of the world, probably most notable one being America. It's the reason NYC hasn't legalized MMA there yet, because of oldschool boxing tradition and politicians who get paid to say MMA is more dangeorous than boxing, when boxing has killed people and MMA has not.
trained 6-10 yr old vs. trained man. child dies man doesn't break a sweat. _________________ Since the birth of civilization, masters have controlled the masses.Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them.They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. Any who resist will be destroyed.I will not resist.
MMA is as legitimate a sport as any other and I really enjoy it.
Bring back Pride rules.
Get ref's that are competent. Most ref's are objectively pathetic.
Get judges that know more than boxing.
Harsh passivity penalties are a must. _________________ Since the birth of civilization, masters have controlled the masses.Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them.They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. Any who resist will be destroyed.I will not resist.
Pride rules would be nice except for knees to the head of a grounded opponent, as well as foot stomps. It may result in more action and a better show for the fans, but it's very unsafe for the fighter, and often results in short careers. In this day and age pretty much in all of the very physical sports, there are people trying to make the game safer for its participants. Concussions are a big problem in dangerous sports and people are taking notice lately, knees and foot stomps to the head on a grounded opponent would definitely cause a lot of concussions.
I think all referees should have MMA fights before they can ref a fight and they should also go to an MMA referee school
Not sure I agree with this. Some fighters only get paid hundreds of dollars to fight. If said fighter is stalling many times for long periods and have received multiple warnings, they get 1 point deducted these days. I think that is fair.
Joined: Feb 07, 2005 Posts: 14856 Location: A beautiful vector among many
Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:46 pm Post subject:
There is a new DVD series by one of his students, Dan Sullivan, that's loaded with really good Panantukan called 'Dirty Boxing' that I'll be picking up. I'll be really pushing myself to crisp up my guntings and entries just because the Panantukan is perfect for long to mid range and while I'm reasonably confident in my Kuntao and Muay Thai for mid to close I still don't feel like I've gotten as much long to mid practice as I'd like (the essentials but I'd like to strengthen/elaborate).
