MyFutureSelfnMe
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 Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| scubasteve wrote: | | MyFutureSelfnMe wrote: | | The idea of Linux as a widely used consumer desktop OS is dead until further notice that someone got Microsoft Office running reliably on it (by actually finishing Wine and installing Wine by default), and all of the obscure hiccups that force people to search Google for an answer have been resolved by the team of hundreds of full time programmers, designers, etc it would take to do that. |
You're making a very big deal over a $200 program people don't even like the interface of... These days, students are mostly using Google Docs or Open Office. That will filter out as they enter the workforce, and MS Office will soon go the way of Internet Explorer. |
There are versions of Office that sell for way more than $200 (last I checked)  . OpenOffice is completely ridiculous and is only really used by students who can't afford Office (even in a student deal) and either don't know how to or consider it wrong to pirate. Google Docs is cool, but still isn't quite Office, as a student doing word processing I would use Google Docs before I'd use OpenOffice, but there's no way I'd actually use either.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/uloop/google-docs-vs-microsoft-_b_859186.html
Non students (professionals) are exclusively using Office.
The lack of support for native Windows applications has QUITE stunted the growth of Linux, and IS crucial.
Please don't be an open source evangelist before a realist. I agree that cloud software is trending toward stealing market share from native apps, and in fact in my opinion there won't be a difference between a cloud app and a native app in 10 years, but we're not there yet. I started using Outlook Web Access over a decade ago and am actually disappointed it hasn't come farther than it has. |
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scubasteve
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Age: 28
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Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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I am not being evangelistic here. Fact is, every non-geek, Windows-using professional I've spoken to still hates the ribbon interface. When I show them OpenOffice/LibreOffice, their impression is that it reminds them of MS Office 2003, which they liked a lot better. Meanwhile, among students in my classes, Google Docs is far more popular than anything else. And I'm not talking CS students. These are elementary and preschool teachers.
Sooner or later, some of these teachers will become principals, and some of these employees will become bosses. And that will be the end of MS Office dominance in schools and in the workplace. Now, does that mean the average Joe User will start running Linux? Probably not. But I don't think MS Office compatibility is what's holding it back. The bigger issue, IMO, is marketing. |
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MyFutureSelfnMe
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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OpenOffice is so ridiculous, it isn't even worth discussing as a serious productivity package. So I don't want to.
My main point was Windows app (and better yet driver) compatibility would have helped launch Linux into the mainstream. I think that's still going to be the clincher in the near to mid future. |
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Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
Joined: Jan 31, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 5022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| MyFutureSelfnMe wrote: | | scubasteve wrote: | | MyFutureSelfnMe wrote: | | The idea of Linux as a widely used consumer desktop OS is dead until further notice that someone got Microsoft Office running reliably on it (by actually finishing Wine and installing Wine by default), and all of the obscure hiccups that force people to search Google for an answer have been resolved by the team of hundreds of full time programmers, designers, etc it would take to do that. |
You're making a very big deal over a $200 program people don't even like the interface of... These days, students are mostly using Google Docs or Open Office. That will filter out as they enter the workforce, and MS Office will soon go the way of Internet Explorer. |
There are versions of Office that sell for way more than $200 (last I checked) . OpenOffice is completely ridiculous and is only really used by students who can't afford Office (even in a student deal) and either don't know how to or consider it wrong to pirate. Google Docs is cool, but still isn't quite Office, as a student doing word processing I would use Google Docs before I'd use OpenOffice, but there's no way I'd actually use either.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/uloop/google-docs-vs-microsoft-_b_859186.html
Non students (professionals) are exclusively using Office.
The lack of support for native Windows applications has QUITE stunted the growth of Linux, and IS crucial.
Please don't be an open source evangelist before a realist. I agree that cloud software is trending toward stealing market share from native apps, and in fact in my opinion there won't be a difference between a cloud app and a native app in 10 years, but we're not there yet. I started using Outlook Web Access over a decade ago and am actually disappointed it hasn't come farther than it has. |
bull much of the danish government runs on libreoffice(several european countries have had sucess with this aproach, libreoffice even have a department to service their needs), the spiritual succesor to open office after the fall, same goes for school systems and even the owner of timex uses it in some of his companies,.
most formats are interchangable today and there is little reason to pay the extra for microsoft office unless you have a very specific use for it, that said most companies still do but not every office worker and not for every job, the interface also allows for easy pickup by anyone used to office.
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scubasteve
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Age: 28
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Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| MyFutureSelfnMe wrote: | | OpenOffice is so ridiculous, it isn't even worth discussing as a serious productivity package. So I don't want to. |
I find Ooo/LO perfectly adequate for general needs. Please elaborate.
| MyFutureSelfnMe wrote: | | My main point was Windows app (and better yet driver) compatibility would have helped launch Linux into the mainstream. I think that's still going to be the clincher in the near to mid future. |
I agree with this to an extent... Inadequate drivers can cause someone to give up on Linux very quickly, and the lack of PC game support is hurting in the home market... But those driver issues are slowly becoming a thing of the past, or at least relegated to brand new or obscure hardware. And more and more people are playing games on consoles rather than PC... As far as productivity apps? Everything except Flash has a viable alternative. And Flash, too, is losing its dominance. |
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MyFutureSelfnMe
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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I'm confused by people who claim OpenOffice/LibreOffice is a serious office package. It seems to be common on this forum. Have any of you actually used it for real productivity/office work, not just experimented with it briefly? It's practically useless.
Sure, some governments use it. |
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MyFutureSelfnMe
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Joined: Feb 27, 2010
Posts: 1288
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| scubasteve wrote: | | MyFutureSelfnMe wrote: | | OpenOffice is so ridiculous, it isn't even worth discussing as a serious productivity package. So I don't want to. |
I find Ooo/LO perfectly adequate for general needs. Please elaborate.
| MyFutureSelfnMe wrote: | | My main point was Windows app (and better yet driver) compatibility would have helped launch Linux into the mainstream. I think that's still going to be the clincher in the near to mid future. |
I agree with this to an extent... Inadequate drivers can cause someone to give up on Linux very quickly, and the lack of PC game support is hurting in the home market... But those driver issues are slowly becoming a thing of the past, or at least relegated to brand new or obscure hardware. And more and more people are playing games on consoles rather than PC... As far as productivity apps? Everything except Flash has a viable alternative. And Flash, too, is losing its dominance. |
No time right now. I used ooo for a couple periods 2 and 5 years ago respectively and just couldn't. It was pissing me off every 60 seconds. I'll discuss later.
This is a trend with open source apps. Viable is one thing, something people want to use is another, and I think people have spoken. |
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scubasteve
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Age: 28
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Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| MyFutureSelfnMe wrote: | | I'm confused by people who claim OpenOffice/LibreOffice is a serious office package. It seems to be common on this forum. Have any of you actually used it for real productivity/office work, not just experimented with it briefly? It's practically useless. |
I use it for the vast majority of my office and academic work. Writer, Calc and Draw have everything I need, and I much prefer the layout they use over the new MS Office layout. The only part of the package I'm not impressed with is Impress. But I usually need to share presentations with a group anyway, so that's where Google Docs come in.
| MyFutureSelfnMe wrote: | | This is a trend with open source apps. Viable is one thing, something people want to use is another, and I think people have spoken. |
People don't use it because they don't know it exists. Again... Marketing. |
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Cornflake
Rattles when shaken
Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 30270
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| MyFutureSelfnMe wrote: | I'm confused by people who claim OpenOffice/LibreOffice is a serious office package. It seems to be common on this forum. Have any of you actually used it for real productivity/office work, not just experimented with it briefly? It's practically useless.
Sure, some governments use it. |
Which either means they're not using it for any real productivity/office work and must therefore be struggling somewhat, or you're missing something.
"It's practically useless" is pretty sweeping. 
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Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
Joined: Jan 31, 2011
Age: 23
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Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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especially since their feature sets are almost identical down to the shortcuts
again there are companies worth a billion dollars that use them today, many in smaller areas but often with the intent of wider implementation once its tested.
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
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Cornflake
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Location: Hertfordshire, UK
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| MyFutureSelfnMe wrote: | | Viable is one thing, something people want to use is another, and I think people have spoken. |
Most times people in offices are expected to use whatever is dumped in front of them - and lo, a "standard" is born, complete with a canned history: it's what people wanted.
Microsoft is of course fully aware of this.
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MyFutureSelfnMe
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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I only have a few seconds here, I'll go into OO later, there are a lot of documents generated by Office that aren't rendered correctly in OO and while that's due largely to MS keeping details of their supposed 'open' XML based document format under wraps, it's incumbent on OO to adequately reverse engineer it to figure it out. That's the most glaring one. I'll pick through others later. There's the side issue that it's also slow, probably due to Java.
You guys can blame marketing all you want, but these days, monopolistic practices and good marketing are NOT making and breaking products. The products are doing it themselves. It actually kind of makes me shudder that people think Linux didn't nail the mainstream desktop because of monopolistic MS practices. |
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scubasteve
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Age: 28
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Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| MyFutureSelfnMe wrote: | | You guys can blame marketing all you want, but these days, monopolistic practices and good marketing are NOT making and breaking products. The products are doing it themselves. |
Point refuted. |
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MyFutureSelfnMe
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Posts: 1288
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I think you actually just reinforced my point. Apple is riding on iOS now, and iOS gives users what they want. |
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Cornflake
Rattles when shaken
Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 30270
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| MyFutureSelfnMe wrote: | | there are a lot of documents generated by Office that aren't rendered correctly in OO and while that's due largely to MS keeping details of their supposed 'open' XML based document format under wraps, it's incumbent on OO to adequately reverse engineer it to figure it out. |
I've read that multiple times and I still can't quite believe it.
Microsoft publishes a so-called "open" document format - badly, leaving out parts which are essential if others are expected to implement this "open" format - and yet it's up to other people to reverse engineer it to be able to accomplish that?
It looks more like deliberate obfuscation by Microsoft.
| Quote: | | It actually kind of makes me shudder that people think Linux didn't nail the mainstream desktop because of monopolistic MS practices. |
Linux doesn't exist in order to "nail" anything, still less to nail the desktop market. There is no "Linux Inc." with shareholders and a marketing target.
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