zombiegirl2010
Toucan
Joined: Apr 21, 2012
Age: 34
Posts: 273
Location: edge of sanity and bliss
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deathsign
Blue Jay
Joined: Nov 22, 2011
Age: 17
Posts: 84
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 Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:22 am Post subject: |
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aspergers syndrome != bad social skills
its much much more severe and complex than that... really.
trust me... I live with aspergers... and really suffer from it. It's more than just bad social skills.
just google it.
_________________
Your Aspie score: 128 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 69 of 200
AQ = 33
Diagnosed AS. Hates having it.
I'm also very paranoid.
My AS is getting worse... |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14794
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| gaffa91 wrote: | | Ellingtonia wrote: | | Asperger's syndrome, as defined by any diagnostic criteria, is really a collection of behavioural symptoms. There are undeniably many people who have these symptoms, and so Aspergers undeniably exists. |
So it's like "you act like this way, so we decide you are not normal and we give you this kind of syndrome". BUT any diagnosis should be based on scientific facts, not just the way they seem to act.
Well its how we act due to how we function, its not like we choose to act like we have aspergers and then it gets diagnosed.....there are obvious differences in functioning between those on the autism spectrum and neurotypicals.
And there is probably financial interest about labeling people sick as well. The more diseases and syndromes etc. we get, there is more medicine about to cure or treat it. So more "sick" people -> more money. Do you really think that medicine business is based only on real proven diseases etc. , not financial interests? Because there really are people who are taking mecidine to treat their traits. |
I think they manipulate people with real diseases/disorders.........but I don't think the majority of disorders are made up and fake.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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gaffa91
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Mar 21, 2011
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Thank you, but is it just because of possible asperger's? There can be other factors too which influences the scores as well (like sample size).
But gotta go to the grocery store, bye >>> |
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ToughDiamond
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2008
Age: 60
Posts: 4751
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Ellingtonia wrote: | Asperger's syndrome, as defined by any diagnostic criteria, is really a collection of behavioural symptoms. There are undeniably many people who have these symptoms, and so Aspergers undeniably exists.
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It would be a lot more certain if we did something like this:
Take half of the supposedly diagnostic traits of AS (funny eye contact, special interests, or whatever) and find as many people as you can who seem to have all those traits. Now see whether those same people tend to have the other half of the traits. If they do, to a statistically significant level compared with the general population, then that would be some measure of the "realness" of AS. Rather like the way we know that blonde hair and blue eyes tend to occur in the same people, so we could probably demonstrate that the blonde-haired-blue-eyed "syndrome" was real, i.e. there was a distinct population satisfying both diagnostic criteria and another different, distinct population satisfying neither, with not as much in between as would be the case if the two traits were not really associated together.
Is that logical and factually about right?
Last edited by ToughDiamond on Fri May 11, 2012 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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edgewaters
hibernating
Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 2426
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Is aspergers existence proven scientifically? |
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| gaffa91 wrote: | | Like brain scan, EEG or whatsoever. Why this information is not public? Otherwise there is absolutely no sense diagnosing aspergers if there is no 100% prove about it. |
You don't seem to really comprehend what science is or what scientific proof consists of. You seem to have a very "mystical" (for lack of a better word) view of it, where a magical man uses ritual objects to divine things and make them "real". That's not science. That's about as far as you can possibly get from science. That is the sort of juju/hocus-pocus image of science perpetuated by the media, for consumption by people who can't really grasp much more than that.
Last edited by edgewaters on Fri May 11, 2012 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ellingtonia
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Oct 10, 2011
Age: 21
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| gaffa91 wrote: | | So it's like "you act like this way, so we decide you are not normal and we give you this kind of syndrome". BUT any diagnosis should be based on scientific facts, not just the way they seem to act. |
The way it SHOULD work is "Doctor, I have a problem with X behaviour and Y behaviour" - "Hmm, do you also sometimes do Z behaviour" - "Actually yes, all the time!" - "well it sounds like you might have aspergers, lets discuss some therapies that many have found useful"
This is of course a huge simplification, but the point is that these behaviours cause problems which require help. It's not that doctors go door to door labelling people as abnormal.
One of the DSM criteria, and in my opinion on of the more important ones, is "The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning." or in simpler terms 'The symptoms are a significant problem for the patient'. This means that even if you have ALL of the behavioural symptoms, if you are functioning fine and these symptoms don't give you any problems (kind of hard to imagine) you SHOULD NOT be diagnosed. |
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zombiegirl2010
Toucan
Joined: Apr 21, 2012
Age: 34
Posts: 273
Location: edge of sanity and bliss
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ToughDiamond
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2008
Age: 60
Posts: 4751
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| Delphiki wrote: | | ToughDiamond wrote: | | Given that nobody seems yet able to prove AS using brain scans, is there any good statistical evidence for the existence of AS? It seems to be that, if AS is real, then the traits would "cluster" in individuals. Should be a walk in the park for a good scientist. I can't believe it's not been tried. |
A walk in the park? how would you know?
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I don't, to be honest. I'm just trying to get those good scientists off their butts. But really, the stats can't be all that hard, can they? |
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bnky
Velociraptor
Joined: Nov 20, 2011
Posts: 479
Location: Kent, England
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| OP, your profile says you have been diagnosed with asperger's. I'm somewhat surprised that anyone would diagnose without also giving you some information about what aspergers is? |
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Ellingtonia
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Oct 10, 2011
Age: 21
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| ToughDiamond wrote: | | Ellingtonia wrote: | Asperger's syndrome, as defined by any diagnostic criteria, is really a collection of behavioural symptoms. There are undeniably many people who have these symptoms, and so Aspergers undeniably exists.
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It would be a lot more certain if we did something like this:
Take half of the supposedly diagnostic traits of AS (funny eye contact, special interests, or whatever) and find as many people as you can who seem to have all those traits. Now see whether those same people tend to have the other half of the traits. If they do, to a statistically significant level compared with the general population, then that would be some measure of the "realness" of AS. Rather like the way we know that blonde hair and blue eyes tend to occur in the same people, so we could probably demonstrate that the blonde-haired-blue-eyed "syndrome" was real, i.e. there was a distinct population satisfying both diagnostic criteria and another different, distinct population satisfying neither, with not as much in between as would be the case if the two traits were not really associated together.
Is that logical and factually about right? |
I saw a video talking about a study similar to what you describe a few months ago. I'll scour the web to find it again tomorrow morning after I get some sleep (its nearly 2am here in Oz)
Basically though, they split aspergers up into three areas of dysfunction, found that a certain proportion of the general population, let's say 1/10, suffered in each individual category. Using basic statistics, if there was zero correlation between the three areas, then the proportion of people that suffer in all three should be 1/1000 (1/10 x 1/10 x 1/10 = 1/1000). The actual proportion of people suffering in all three (and thus having aspergers) was much higher, like 1/100. Not quite as simple as the blond-hair blue-eyed example, but good enough for me.
To be clear though, I've made up those figures to illustrate their method. I'll try to find the real figures and the video in the morning. |
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ToughDiamond
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2008
Age: 60
Posts: 4751
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Ellingtonia wrote: |
I saw a video talking about a study similar to what you describe a few months ago. I'll scour the web to find it again tomorrow morning after I get some sleep (its nearly 2am here in Oz)
Basically though, they split aspergers up into three areas of dysfunction, found that a certain proportion of the general population, let's say 1/10, suffered in each individual category. Using basic statistics, if there was zero correlation between the three areas, then the proportion of people that suffer in all three should be 1/1000 (1/10 x 1/10 x 1/10 = 1/1000). The actual proportion of people suffering in all three (and thus having aspergers) was much higher, like 1/100. Not quite as simple as the blond-hair blue-eyed example, but good enough for me.
To be clear though, I've made up those figures to illustrate their method. I'll try to find the real figures and the video in the morning. |
I knew there was something like that for reality-checking. Hope you find the video  |
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gaffa91
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Mar 21, 2011
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| bnky wrote: | | OP, your profile says you have been diagnosed with asperger's. I'm somewhat surprised that anyone would diagnose without also giving you some information about what aspergers is? |
I was 8yrs old when I was dx'ed so I can't remember what he/she have said about it. |
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pokerface
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
Age: 46
Posts: 585
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Is aspergers existence proven scientifically? |
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| gaffa91 wrote: | Like brain scan, EEG or whatsoever. Why this information is not public? Otherwise there is absolutely no sense diagnosing aspergers if there is no 100% prove about it.
Even so, why it is diagnosed if the diagnosis doesn't help directly? I mean people can have bad social skills WITHOUT having aspergers, so it cannot be a syndrome for a "bad social skills". And also people CAN be interested about introverted things WITHOUT having aspergers.
And why bad math skills are not diagnosed but bad social skills are? (special interest are cause of bad social skills after all).
Why people always god damn believe without a doubt on authorities like doctors, polices etc. |
The existence of aspergers has been proven by scans. Certain parts of the brain of people with aspergers are a bit different.
Last edited by pokerface on Fri May 11, 2012 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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gaffa91
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Mar 21, 2011
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Is aspergers existence proven scientifically? |
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| pokerface wrote: |
The existance of aspergers has been proven by scans. Certain parts of the brain of people with aspergers are a bit different. |
More information about these scans, please. Do you have any link about those studies? |
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