soutthpaw
Snowy Owl
Joined: May 01, 2012
Age: 42
Posts: 151
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 Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:42 am Post subject: |
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I hope the OP is an Atheist. Else they have just totally destroyed their own argument requiring a physical proof or difference for AS to be real. Also besides being pissed at their own AS Diagnosis it seems they are looking for a way to invalidate their own Dx. The OP appears to be in denial. Lastly look at AS people from birth through early childhood and you will find many behaviors that differ from NT population at large and also have commonalities among others with AS... In reading the OP's post it sure seems like he is saying that AS folks are just acting or behaving this way by some weird choice. which my reference to early onset above invalidates because the infant or child is not yet able to consciously choose these behaviors....
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AQ test =36: SQ test = 110: EQ test =8
Aspire quiz: Aspire score = 162; Neurotypical =42
RAADS=173 Total: Language= 10: social relatedness= 92: Sensory/motor= 37: Circumscribed interests=34 |
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TechnoDog
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 17, 2012
Posts: 869
Location: Thornaby, UK
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:53 am Post subject: |
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As is been removed.
http://www.science20.com/science_20/redefining_autism_dsmv-86289
& have they bothered running a Pet scan on the Acetylcholine Pathway.
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INTJ, Type5 Observer, Ecologists,
“When you make a mistake, don't look back at it long. Take the reason of the thing into your mind and then look forward. Mistakes are lessons of wisdom. The past cannot be changed. The future is yet in your power.” |
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NeueZiel
Señorita Gamera
Joined: Apr 29, 2012
Posts: 1246
Location: Kapustin Yar
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:01 am Post subject: |
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Seeing this odd seeing as the doctor I went to (Who was really good and I was 100% honest with) told me I was a text book case, though he did not like to put labels on stuff. I do dislike how AS and autism has become fadish, it actually prevented me from getting a diagnosis for a long time out of fear and guilt and feeling dumb. I think of aspergers is something and if it isn't just relegated to HFA ( I didn't read all of that article) it really varies from person to person. I think with mental conditions and medical stuff in general its very hard to pigeon hole stuff. Like, condition causes me to enjoy some things more and I've been told accept/embrace parts of my personality, even by the doctor, but I really do suffer with meltdowns, my mind getting heavily overloaded to the point I hyperventilate now and other things. Also bad hand to eye coordination eyes, some of these things meds really do help with but I've noticed a group of people who totally refuse treatment in that form and thinks its evil or something.
I'm not one to say "YOU'RE PROBLEM ISN'T REAL", quite the contrary..but I have to wonder just how bad these people and are effected by their problems. Its admirable to want to be strong and not be a thrall to your drugs but there's another point when your condition(s) is clearly interfering with your daily life and then I think there's nothing wrong with medical intervention.
I've totally gone on an off topic tangent, sorry 
tl; dr my own problems linked to AS/HFA are very real and I think they're scientific and at least partially part of some brain imbalance. I don't care anymore if the internet or popular blogs debate this and call me a faker. I know how its limited and disabled me in many ways, I've tried stuff. |
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AspieOtaku
Leader of the Otaku Legion
Joined: Feb 18, 2012
Age: 30
Posts: 5899
Location: Mountain View, California, United States
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ooo
Velociraptor
Joined: Apr 09, 2012
Posts: 494
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ooo
Velociraptor
Joined: Apr 09, 2012
Posts: 494
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:24 am Post subject: Re: Is aspergers existence proven scientifically? |
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| UnLoser wrote: | The cause of a disorder does not need to be known before the disorder can be considered real.
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Finding the cause or underlying cell biology (etc.) of a disorder is vital to being able to better understand and treat it.
Imagine if nothing was known about brain chemistry, depression, and SSRIs.
We would know depression exists, but wouldn't have an understanding of how to treat it (other than therapy, which doesn't help enough for incredibly severe causes. |
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ooo
Velociraptor
Joined: Apr 09, 2012
Posts: 494
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| "Change Your Brain, Change Your Life" by Dr. Amen is an interesting read, showing brain scans in "normal" brains vs. those affected by things such as depression. I'm sure there are countless other books and research on brain scans as well. |
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Verdandi
Miss Kitty Fantastico
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Posts: 10197
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| It should be noted that Dr. Amen is a bit of a quack. |
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TechnoDog
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 17, 2012
Posts: 869
Location: Thornaby, UK
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Ganondox
Visceral Diety
Joined: Oct 08, 2011
Age: 16
Posts: 3599
Location: Indonesia
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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You are wrong off the bat; Bad math skills are diagnosable, it's calked dyscalculia. Also, what do you mean "proven scientifically". The thing is, you don't use science to prove things, you use math, that's why everything in science is a theory, not a theorm.
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Softly Spoken lies
You never know just how you look
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Autism FAQs http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt186115.htm |
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twich
Toucan
Joined: Sep 13, 2011
Age: 28
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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I'm back. I didn't take anything personally, you don't have to take something personally to see someone acting rude or hostile.
I've been reading this thread. I've read your and others responses, and I have a question: So what if it wasn't proven scientifically, you don't need to get told you have asperger's to feel all the things you do. You'd be feeling and acting every way you already do even if they hadn't been able to classify and group all these things into the term Asperger syndrome. The name doesn't cause the disorder, the disorder gets a name. It sounds like you're angry at the "issues" you have and you're trying to find something to blame. A label isn't to blame, genetics and the like are. This is who you are, regardless of the word or diagnosis- Not being told you have asperger's wouldn't change you magically. You got assessed BECAUSE you were different from the norm, you didn't become different from the norm AFTER you were assessed.
SO, take all the links and information people have given you here, but what are you trying to achieve? You're still you in the end, you can either be ok with or not, but it won't change you. |
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Rascal77s
Picnic Basket Thief
Joined: Nov 13, 2011
Posts: 2338
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Verdandi wrote: | | It should be noted that Dr. Amen is a bit of a quack. |
Amen to that. |
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Declension
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 21, 2012
Posts: 1656
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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It's interesting to think carefully about exactly what it would mean for a psychological condition to be "real", and what it would mean for a psychological condition to be "fake". If you think that "real" means "it can be diagnosed simply by looking at your brain" and "fake" means "it cannot be diagnosed simply by looking at your brain", then there are some problems with your view.
Most people accept that your brain is where all of the fundamentally important things about you as a person are physically encoded. So, if you behave differently to an imagined "average person" John, then your brain really is different to John's brain. If we were to use good enough equipment, we could see the differences. And if we had some sort of amazing computer and some amazing knowledge about how the brain works, we would be able to predict how your behaviour would be different to John's behaviour just from the differences in your brains. So any talk about "can we detect Asperger's Syndrome just from looking at brains" is really just talk about current technology, not about the principles of the matter.
Another problem with this view is that no other type of condition has this much scrutiny put on it. For example, if I go to the doctor and I tell him my symptoms (e.g. coughing, sneezing, feeling tired), he might guess what condition I have from my symptoms. Nobody is demanding that he has to look at my lungs and sinuses in order to diagnose me. Symptoms are enough for diagnosis. Why shouldn't this be the case for psychological conditions as well? |
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Matt62
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 05, 2012
Age: 51
Posts: 1163
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Well, here is part of the problem. We are actually talking Medicine here, not Science per se. There is an actual difference. Medicine is about trying to cure/help people.
Science certainly is not. In its purest form, its simply about testing hypothesis A & then B. Searching for knowledge (not "Truth" in the capital sense either, that is really philosphy).
Medical knowledge is gained the same way, however, there are ethical considerations, so it often goes slower than pure research. You simply cannot open someone's brain without consent. And how many would. Plus for severely autistic people, they might not be able to give consent.
Asperger's Syndrome is REAL within the Autistic pectrum of behavior/disorders. But is it truly seperate from Autism is not known, so many are in favor of eliminating it. That however, does NOT mean you are NOT Autistic. If you wre dxd trying to deny it by denying the entire Reality of it is understandable.
But counter-productive..
Sincerely,
Matthew |
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Matt62
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 05, 2012
Age: 51
Posts: 1163
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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PS.
Oh good, someone also got the part about "proving" stuff in. Science is not about PROVING A beyond a doubt.
Knowledge evolves through time. Its sort of like the Theory of Evolution, which has tons of evidence, but as any Creationist will tell you "Its not a Proven Fact" But there is tons of evidence, clues, etc. People who try to "prove" some is false are misunderstanding the intent.
I also forgot to add: Medicine is as much Art as it is a Science. especially in Diagnosis.
Things are always in flux when it comes to brain/mental illnesses, because our understanding is so (ironically) limited at this time.
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Why not try to learn the positives about your ASD? You waste valuable time with your denial that you should use. If I even had HALF of the resources that exist for autistics these days, my life would be VERY different! |
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