JanuaryMan
Aspierational
Joined: Jan 02, 2012
Age: 28
Posts: 2538
Location: Hants, UK
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 Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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We also have to remember the world around us is only a small sample of the actual, entire world.
It's as someone suggested earlier, anecdotal evidence to go by this. Sure it may be all some of us have, but it doesn't negate or remove the existence of other types of evidence.
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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reading people's astonishing conclusions on WrongPlanet make me wonder if people reinforce their own reality. if you approach society with the assumption that people are shallow bullies, i believe you will be surround yourself with such people by default. i have friends all over the world, so i think blaming bad behaviour on culture is a cop out
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rabbittss
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 30, 2011
Posts: 1348
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| hyperlexian wrote: | | rabbittss wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | rabbittss wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | rabbittss wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: |
you are not basing that on any actual evidence or statistics. if you look at the reasons why couples divorce, lost money and lost looks are not commonly cited. |
I would hazard a guess as to why: People lie about their reasons so as not to appear shallow. Instead they use hollow phrases like "The spark just isn't there anymore" or "I need space". Something similar anyway.
Guys go after girls because they find them attractive, Girls go after guys for financial reasons. We are already starting to see Women with good jobs going after schlubby, no ambition having, loser guys because they find them attractive, and at the same time seeing guys going after women who make way more money than them.
I'm not saying that there isn't such a thing as genuine affection.. just that I don't think you can completely rule out Looks & Fiscal status as actual reasons why people break up..
For what it's worth, If we were dating, and she put on 5-10lbs I wouldn't.. Maybe not even 20lbs.. If she put on 30-50.. Probably. If we were married, I doubt it. It is hard to say. But I definitely don't find morbidly obese people attractive at all, and have no desire to be intimate with some one who is. Of course I also don't find older people attractive at all and have no desire to be intimate with the. But if I've made a choice to marry some one, chances are I'll stick by that choice regardless, since that is the whole point. |
no, most women don't go after men primarily for their money, and most men don't go after women primarily for their looks.
if you want to assume people are lying about their reasons, then you could assert that ANY reason is true. you could say that most men divorce women because they make a horrible casserole, and most women divorce men because their feet stink. if there is no data, there is probably a good reason for it - it most likely isn't true. |
I wish I lived in whatever world you live in, instead of, you know, the real one. |
rigggggghhhhht and you're basing your opinion on what? hearsay? fairy tales? gossip? 
i look at the facts, i don't speculate about nonsense. |
Uh, no, I'm basing it on the way the world actually is. All around me. Constantly. |
your conclusions demonstrate that you are not accurately assessing the world around you. |
That's because my conclusions don't match your conclusions so therefore they must be incorrect. To me, yours are incorrect. What happens in New York, Seattle, London, etc. is not a litmus test for what occurs where I live.
My conclusions are due to how the world around me *IS*. Conclusions are not simply jumped to, they are arrived at. You cannot tell me I am not accurately assessing the world around me, when I most certainly am.
You live in New York. I live in a college town who's only claim to fame is that REM came from here 30 years ago. It's nothing but upper middle class white kids (the only ones who can afford the outrageous tuition) and poor semi literate ruralites. I fit in with neither group. I'm sorry this seems to be confusing you. But every place is not created exactly like every other place. I've never consciously stated that the entire world is like what I'm describing, I seem to remember always parsing my statements with 'My' meaning that it is only my experience. |
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ZX_SpectrumDisorder
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 25, 2012
Posts: 1608
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| hyperlexian wrote: |
i don't think you understand that not every obese person wants to lose weight, and not everyone thinks obese people are unattractive. |
I do understand and I totally agree, if someone's happy then fine. I don't often encounter obese people who don't wish they weren't.
| hyperlexian wrote: | | i think you are hanging out with the wrong people if they are nasty about weight. you are choosing to be surrounded by people that are unpleasant, and you are tailoring yourself to their expectations. |
This is totally correct, most people I encounter are unpleasant and yes I am tailoring. Anything for an easier life. I have mates all over the place, but I still have to work and go to clubs and stand in taxi queues at 4am and be among people who aren't.... mates who are only too willing to verbally appraise your appearance in order to make themselves feel bigger by harrassing you while they're with a group. |
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JanuaryMan
Aspierational
Joined: Jan 02, 2012
Age: 28
Posts: 2538
Location: Hants, UK
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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City life's a drag. I find it gets better when you leave the city, and worse the further you go in when it comes to these sort of expectations on partners. I accept various circumstances for weight gain and loss, or other things it's just when I feel the person is taking an easy ride or becoming less of the person I used to know for no real reason other than they are in a relationship and it doesn't matter that I share concerns.
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Wolfheart
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 18, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 2971
Location: Kent, England
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| hyperlexian wrote: | | Wolfheart wrote: | | The-Raven wrote: | | Wolfheart wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | Wolfheart wrote: |
Fit in what aspect? Sure, they may be able to compete in sports such as power lifting or some form of dance but I think you would be hard pressed to find a sprinter or an endurance athlete that is fat. |
not many people in general could be endurance athletes or sprinters, whether they are fat or thin. so that's not a good example. a person can be very fit and still fat, but like most of the world they will probably not enter the Olympics.
i think you are unaware of how hard it is to dance |
I'm not saying everyone has to train their body to a high standard to be considered healthy, for some people, a couple of low intensity sessions of running and a healthy diet may be enough. People need to find out what's right for them and if they can handle it physically, as well as mentally. Of course, not everyone has the capacity to be a world class athlete or at the level of one.
I don't think it is good to promote obesity however and I think the US and the UK definitely need to reform on this issue.
| Quote: | “Take obesity: it already costs our NHS a staggering £4 billion a year. But within four years, that figure’s expected to rise to £6.3 billion.” David Cameron, 16 May 2011.
Last week David Cameron delivered a speech outlining the Government's continued commitment to the reform of the NHS, laying out some of the reasons he believed justified and necessitated the reforms
High and growing levels of obesity in the UK, and the associated health costs, was one such reason he highlighted. With the NHS facing growing costs from treating patients with obesity linked conditions, Mr Cameron said that the NHS had to focus on efficiency and reduce management costs. |
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Wolfheart, I would like to see you inject oestrogen at the levels Hyperlexian has in her blood and see if it effects how easy you find it to keep fat off. Womens hormones are catabolic and break down muscle and build fat (unlike mens anabolic hormones which break down fat and build muscle) so it is much harder for women to keep weight off, especially harder than for a six foot plus bloke who is going to be able to eat loads comparatively. Also womens lifestyles of being in charge of the majority of childcare and house work tends to be prohibitive on spending vast amounts of time exercising compared to single 22 year old men who have relatively unencumbered lifestyles with more free time and less commitments.
when you get a partner and have children will you dump her when she cant keep up with your lifestyle because she is pregnant or having to look after a small baby or several small children? I think you will find as you get older and have more commitments in your life that you have to lower your high standards of what you expect from yourself and other people. |
We're not even talking vast amounts of working out, I'm not saying someone has to do 90 minutes of high intensity training per day, some people might get by on 30 minutes a day. The main cause of obesity is the lack of discipline and incorrect eating habits, countries such as France and Switzerland has a much lower obesity rate than the United Kingdom and the United States.
Would I dump her? Of course I wouldn't abandon my responsibilities if I had a child with her, I wouldn't leave my children over something aesthetic and selfish but I wouldn't get involved with someone that lead an unhealthy lifestyle or diet in the first place since it wouldn't work out. I definitely wouldn't get married with someone unless I lived with them for a few years first to see if our lifestyles are compatible. |
French and Swiss people don't have more discipline than people in the US and UK, so obviously that is not the cause of obesity.
but anyway you are coming from a starting point of it being a problem. but it isn't necessarily an issue. more than a quarter of obese people have no health problems or health risks whatsoever. so your judgement that there is a problem with them by default is inaccurate. obesity is not a disease.
p.s. 90 minutes a day is a lot to people working the "double-shift" (work and home, with children) |
It's not a disease but it's something that can be prevented or maintained better and I think implementing a fitness program and a healthy diet at an early age is a good solution. The reason people in France, Switzerland and Japan are slimmer is because they choose to eat healthier, French people eat lots of organic food and vegetables, similar to how the Japanese eat a healthier diet. It takes a certain amount of discipline to follow a healthy diet when you have spent any number of years eating junk or being surrounded by it in the United Kingdom or United States. |
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KenM
an i mal
Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Age: 45
Posts: 1547
Location: Mass. USA
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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If anyone dumped me because of my weight, its pretty clear that they are shallow and all about looks. I would not want that person in my life anyway. Like/ love someone for who they are.
Back in college, I met a few girls that were overweight that I liked, but they said they would never go out with my because of my weight. They wanted someone thin. Hypocrates. |
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mds_02
Skank
Joined: Sep 10, 2011
Posts: 1941
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| KenM wrote: | If anyone dumped me because of my weight, its pretty clear that they are shallow and all about looks. I would not want that person in my life anyway. Like/ love someone for who they are.
Back in college, I met a few girls that were overweight that I liked, but they said they would never go out with my because of my weight. They wanted someone thin. Hypocrates. |
But what if you like/love someone for who they are, and then they change? |
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KenM
an i mal
Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Age: 45
Posts: 1547
Location: Mass. USA
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| mds_02 wrote: | | KenM wrote: | If anyone dumped me because of my weight, its pretty clear that they are shallow and all about looks. I would not want that person in my life anyway. Like/ love someone for who they are.
Back in college, I met a few girls that were overweight that I liked, but they said they would never go out with my because of my weight. They wanted someone thin. Hypocrates. |
But what if you like/love someone for who they are, and then they change? |
I would like someone for whats on the inside, who they are, the body is just a shell. I would not dump someone because of there weight. I'm not shallow. |
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mds_02
Skank
Joined: Sep 10, 2011
Posts: 1941
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| KenM wrote: | | mds_02 wrote: | | KenM wrote: | If anyone dumped me because of my weight, its pretty clear that they are shallow and all about looks. I would not want that person in my life anyway. Like/ love someone for who they are.
Back in college, I met a few girls that were overweight that I liked, but they said they would never go out with my because of my weight. They wanted someone thin. Hypocrates. |
But what if you like/love someone for who they are, and then they change? |
I would like someone for whats on the inside, who they are, the body is just a shell. I would not dump someone because of there weight. I'm not shallow. |
Yeah, but external changes are often signs of internal changes. And, even when they're not, they often bring about internal changes.
And I don't think taking physical attraction into account is shallow. It's when physical attraction is everything that it becomes shallow. |
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KenM
an i mal
Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Age: 45
Posts: 1547
Location: Mass. USA
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| If you dump someone just because they gained weight, then for you it is all about physical attraction. A relationship is more. |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14830
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| hyperlexian wrote: | | reading people's astonishing conclusions on WrongPlanet make me wonder if people reinforce their own reality. if you approach society with the assumption that people are shallow bullies, i believe you will be surround yourself with such people by default. i have friends all over the world, so i think blaming bad behaviour on culture is a cop out |
There could be a touch of that but I don't think "You did it to yourself" is in any way a fair or accurate representation of how it works either. People do things to each other from ages where they're too young to have thoughts of the kind of sophistocation that it takes to swing their environments under control. School's a whole other problem as its socially a bit like prison-lite in a lot of places. Add these things together, have a society that's filled with mixed messages beating you from every side and for even being two opposite things at the same time, and create it to *want* to back away from you as it classifies and judges you and you pretty much have a situation that's difficult if not impossible for almost anyone to dig their way out of.
As people become adults that active judgement becomes more passive generally but ends up manifesting itself more as a hair-trigger radar, typecasting other people, and scurrying away when perceived 'undesirables' are around. Its not just something that happens to aspies - it happens to NT's by NT, by aspies as well, all day long.
Essentially as an adult - how you were treated as a kid, what and who you were allowed to be, even if you put a fight up for your own identity and met violent opposition, all of these things are housed in your demeanor, in your mannerisms, in ways that people seem to recognized almost preconsciously - to the point where they either like or dislike a person and really may often have no clue why; they just do. Climbing out of that would just about take going back in time and throwing a wrench in the causal gears of your past to avoid or 'fix' what people did to you one way, all the while crossing your fingers and hoping something better came of the later option (Ashton Kutcher in 'Butterfly Effect' rings a bell here).
With most well-functioning people (ie. people without much self-improvement room left to be exercised) I really think that their crosscurrents in life are generally first and foremost what's been done to them by other people, then a combination of both their defense mechanisms and then simply their lack of data or even wiring that is built to conceive a 'them' in a different paradigm let alone be there functionally - to other people's standards of social whole-hat perfection. |
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JanuaryMan
Aspierational
Joined: Jan 02, 2012
Age: 28
Posts: 2538
Location: Hants, UK
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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It's possible for someone to gain weight, a partner to bring it up with the other partner that gained weight, that partner not caring and continuing to do it and then that partner dumping them.
It's more complex an issue than "oh they dumped me for my weight therefore they are shallow". Sure, if they outright dumped you the moment you got bigger and they didn't even make the effort to raise it with you for whatever reason there is a real communication barrier with that person and they are indeed shallow.
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PastFixations
One who will open the door.
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
Posts: 2697
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| KenM wrote: | | If you dump someone just because they gained weight, then for you it is all about physical attraction. A relationship is more. |
What if it got to an extreme and uncapable scenario that they were beating themself up about it and they made you go into a terrible state of mind from their depression being passed onto you... would you stay in an unhealthy relationship is what I'm asking if it did get that bad?
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DogsWithoutHorses
mockingbyrd
Joined: Apr 06, 2012
Posts: 1145
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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I think there is a bit pf a difference between breaking up with someone because there wasn't sexual attraction anymore, and breaking up with someone because they aren't arm candy anymore.
If your partner's thinness is a status marker for you, that's pretty shallow.
I don't know how common this is, but I know it's been represented in pop culture and I've experienced it; there are guys who really like sleeping with big girls, but would be embarrassed if their buddies found out they were dating a "fat chick"
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