CrazyCatLord
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 25, 2011
Posts: 2177
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 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| hyperlexian wrote: | | CrazyCatLord wrote: | | CockneyRebel wrote: | | I think that a cure would be a very bad idea. A cure for being the way that I was made, and for being myself? No thank you. |
If it was possible to replace the neural connections between the frontal lobe and the rest of the brain that are missing in autistic people, we would still be ourselves. We would still have the neural overconnectivity within the frontal lobe that gives some of us improved cognitive abilities. We'd simply gain all the abilities that we're currently lacking, such as normal social instincts, better motor control, improved depth and distance perception etc.
For me, this would mean that I might be able to look somebody in the eye, smile at them, and reach out to shake their hand without knocking something over. That's like giving a neurotypical person the ability to fly. It doesn't change their personality, it only greatly enriches their life experience. |
we don't really know if it could affect other aspects of their personality because we don't have any cured people at hand. for me, i experience every aspect of the world and the contents of my own mind with an autistic brain, so i do not think that i could be cured and still be fully "me". it would be like removing the colour red from the world and expecting things to look the same. |
I guess a few personality traits would change. But psychopharmaceuticals do the same (how many aspies are on antidepressants?), and so does a different diet. Add more tryptophane to your diet by eating more bananas, poultry or cheese, and your serotonin levels go up, resulting in a different outlook on life and different behavior. Among other things, elevated tryptophane / serotonin levels improve self-control (link), change people's sense of fairness (link), and lead to more rational decision making (link).
I'd call that a personality change. Eat a cheese sandwich, and two hours later you're a slightly different person. And yet people barely notice when neurotransmitter precursors in their diet change their personality for the better. They simply feel good after ingesting psychoactive chemicals. I imagine that an improved neural connectivity would do the same. One would be more alert, more in the here and now, more socially capable, and better able to enjoy life rather than being anxious, stressed and confused all the time. That's a personality change I could live with 
PS: It's interesting that you would compare it to a missing primary color. Personally, I would compare it to being able to see additional colors that one was unaware of before. |
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CrazyCatLord
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 25, 2011
Posts: 2177
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Atomsk wrote: | | The idea of mothers terminating pregnancies because autism was detected in the baby disgusts me. It does for any other disability as well. |
What I find disgusting is that humans still breed like animals and roll genetic dice without giving much thought to the happiness and capabilities of their future children. "Sorry son, something went awry when we put you together, but we went ahead and forced you into this world anyway. Off you go now, good luck trying to survive on your own out there". We should be better than that.
Anyway, if there was a cure for autism, there would be no reason to abort autistic children. I don't understand why people read "cure" and think "abortion". Cures are for existing people who struggle with medical conditions. As for embryos, in an ideal world they would be cultured in vitro and screened for disorders before they're implanted, which means that abortions would be a thing of the past. |
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Ganondox
Visceral Diety
Joined: Oct 08, 2011
Age: 16
Posts: 3599
Location: Indonesia
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | PS: It's interesting that you would compare it to a missing primary color. Personally, I would compare it to being able to see additional colors that one was unaware of before. |
Well, there is no way to know as no one has ever done it, but I think it's more on the loosing a color side and this is why; Gestalt Perception and Hypersensitivity.
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mike_br
Sea Gull
Joined: Apr 23, 2012
Posts: 202
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, no doubt.
My life, despite the achievments, is mostly miserable. If I could do away with social limitations, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
I don't think it should be imposed... but I'd like one. |
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| CrazyCatLord wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | CrazyCatLord wrote: | | CockneyRebel wrote: | | I think that a cure would be a very bad idea. A cure for being the way that I was made, and for being myself? No thank you. |
If it was possible to replace the neural connections between the frontal lobe and the rest of the brain that are missing in autistic people, we would still be ourselves. We would still have the neural overconnectivity within the frontal lobe that gives some of us improved cognitive abilities. We'd simply gain all the abilities that we're currently lacking, such as normal social instincts, better motor control, improved depth and distance perception etc.
For me, this would mean that I might be able to look somebody in the eye, smile at them, and reach out to shake their hand without knocking something over. That's like giving a neurotypical person the ability to fly. It doesn't change their personality, it only greatly enriches their life experience. |
we don't really know if it could affect other aspects of their personality because we don't have any cured people at hand. for me, i experience every aspect of the world and the contents of my own mind with an autistic brain, so i do not think that i could be cured and still be fully "me". it would be like removing the colour red from the world and expecting things to look the same. |
I guess a few personality traits would change. But psychopharmaceuticals do the same (how many aspies are on antidepressants?), and so does a different diet. Add more tryptophane to your diet by eating more bananas, poultry or cheese, and your serotonin levels go up, resulting in a different outlook on life and different behavior. Among other things, elevated tryptophane / serotonin levels improve self-control (link), change people's sense of fairness (link), and lead to more rational decision making (link).
I'd call that a personality change. Eat a cheese sandwich, and two hours later you're a slightly different person. And yet people barely notice when neurotransmitter precursors in their diet change their personality for the better. They simply feel good after ingesting psychoactive chemicals. I imagine that an improved neural connectivity would do the same. One would be more alert, more in the here and now, more socially capable, and better able to enjoy life rather than being anxious, stressed and confused all the time. That's a personality change I could live with
PS: It's interesting that you would compare it to a missing primary color. Personally, I would compare it to being able to see additional colors that one was unaware of before. |
i guess that i really like myself the way i am. some medicines cause small changes but they keep me alive and don't do anything drastic to me beyond keeping me alive. i don't consider depression to be part of me, so changing that isn't going to fundamentally alter me. instead it restores me to my proper condition.
but i consider ASD to be a fundamental part of me and i do not want to be NT. i don't see that as a good progression. i'm special.
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Colinn
Majestic Phoenix
Joined: Apr 08, 2012
Posts: 2191
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think I would like to be completely cured, if I had the option. Cured for what? To become "just like everyone else", no thanks! I think my autism brings me as much good as it does bad in the way my mind works. If funding had to go anywhere I would like to go towards helping people with it in different ways, not just getting rid of it. I am quite happy with the way I am, but being more comfortable socially and less anxious would help me out a lot in my life. |
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OddDuckNash99
Hypercoaster
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 2527
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:47 am Post subject: |
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I'm against curing all of the neuropsychiatric disorders. Rather, I'm a proponent for finding actual diagnostic tests, genetic tests to help choose a medication that will work the first time around, better treatments/medications with less side effects, and getting the person to a stage where their condition is manageable and they can function in the real world (but aren't CURED). The idea of curing things like ASDs and bipolar disorder and schizophrenia scares me. There are many skills and talents and realms of creativity that have consistently been linked with neuropsych disorders.
Creativity and bipolar disorder in particular has been studied by Jamison and others quite extensively, and it is a known fact that a disproportionate amount of artists, authors, composers, and other individuals in the arts suffered from a mood disorder. In addition, look at the savant talents that sometimes come along with ASDs or John Nash's brilliance that most certainly was intertwined with his schizophrenia. While not all individuals with a neuropsych disorder have a special talent or area of genius, I am very much a believer that, if these conditions are completely cured and the genetics are washed away, the talents that go along with certain cases and certain traits will also be washed away.
I really do believe that "there is no great genius without some sort of madness," and while I suffer from my neuropsych disorders many days, I also know that my different way of thinking and my splinter skills and creativity all are part and parcel of my brain being wired differently. If you ask me, there has to be some sort of reason that evolution has kept severe mental illnesses like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder in the genetic line for thousands of years. I liken it to how sickle cell anemia keeps staying around because of how being a carrier gives no symptoms but helps fight off malaria. I don't like messing around with genes, other than finding out what genes cause what. I think figuring out how to turn off and on genes and eliminate genes is just asking for trouble...
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FMX
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 17, 2012
Posts: 482
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Cornflake wrote: | | Delphiki wrote: | | Ganondox wrote: | | vanhalenkurtz wrote: | | Ask me when I was 12, making word noises euphorically in my little room the size of the universe, I would have said no. Ask me again when I was 19 getting beat up and worse in the navy, I'd say yes. Ask me when I was 30 in love with Shelley and long walks in my mind, I'd say no. Ask me again when I was 45 when my wife left me and took the kids, the answer would be yes. Ask me today, I'd say it's too late I don't care. You could be as normal as a blank sheet of paper and still there's ups & downs when you hit the typewriter. Is there a cure for suffering? The cure for joy will probably be right around the corner. |
Wisdom here. |
Very profound |
I'll say - a wonderfully poetic and considered response to a simple question, avoiding all the simplistic answers. |
Yes, it was. Now, at the risk of bringing it back to a simplistic answer, did anyone ever specifically want to lack the option of a cure? I can't imagine why, so my answer is a definite yes. And a cure, if it existed, would be an option (abortion arguments aside - which would be a matter of diagnosis, not "cure", anyway).
If NTs could choose to be autistic does anyone think they would all, without exception, choose to? Obviously not. So why should those who were born autistic choose, without exception, to stay autistic? I don't see any reason why our "default" neurology is somehow the morally right one and must not be changed.
That's all hypothetical, of course. I partly agree with Ganondox that a cure in the sense of the "magical pill" is unlikely, but I'm sure the scientists working on the problem know full well and direct their research towards something more realistic. |
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jetbuilder
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 24, 2012
Age: 28
Posts: 743
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:18 am Post subject: |
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I think that if there are people with the condition that wants to be cured, there should be research for finding a cure.
On the other hand, I absolutely object to the idea that you should automatically want a cure for something you have just because there may be a cure. Or other people assuming you want to be cured or thinking you need be cured.
I'm paralyzed, and I don't prey for a cure every day. I'm happy the way I am.
I understand that people are desperate for a cure for SCI's, and I don't blame them for pursuing it. It's just not for me. I see no reason to be cured. It's a part of who I am.
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Kinme
Dinosaurlicious
Joined: Apr 14, 2012
Posts: 3223
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| NO. That's just awful. |
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TenPencePiece
Curiosity Killed the Cone
Joined: Dec 12, 2009
Age: 18
Posts: 43803
Location: Greater Manchester, United Kingdom
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see it as a necessity.
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Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 30
Posts: 9831
Location: Central USA
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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I have this service that delivers new journal articles about autism to my e-mail inbox. I get thirty, forty a week... sometimes as many as a hundred. And so many of them focus on genetics and cure, or pick apart yet another bit of chemistry or brain structure that's different about us. Very few of them are about teaching autistic kids. Very few of them are about integrating schools and workplaces. Even articles about which medications are most useful are less common than you'd think.
We need to flip those percentages. More research on teaching; less about picking apart our brains and our DNA. We have lots of autistic people in the world who aren't getting the help they need, and our researchers are sitting in their labs watching proteins dance for little or no reason. That is what the cure-focused approach has done: It's pulled funding and the best minds away from practical help for real people, and given it to a bunch of castles in the clouds that can't help anyone currently alive and probably won't ever do anything more than finding a genetic test that leads to more eugenic abortions. That sucks, and it needs to stop.
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Bunders
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: May 17, 2012
Age: 33
Posts: 36
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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I think that society should arrange itself to better support the full diversity of the human gene pool. Consider that when the earth was hottest it had an average temperature of 40 degrees Celsius and the animals that survived in those conditions were, for some reason, much smaller than the animals of today. Maybe it has to do with volume to surface area ratio's and our ability to cool down by sweating, I don't know.
But assuming this is true then I guess that if global warming runs out of control then selective pressure might favour our species more diminutive members. And I know that many of society's diminutive minority find it inconvenient to live in a world built for average sized people, they might therefore wish they were the same size.
Be careful what you wish for. It may only be their children who survive the coming global warming apocalypse. (I'm joking, I don't really believe that there is a coming global warming apocalypse, but I think I raise a valid point regarding the rest.)
B. |
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OddDuckNash99
Hypercoaster
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 2527
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Callista wrote: | | IMore research on teaching; less about picking apart our brains and our DNA. We have lots of autistic people in the world who aren't getting the help they need, and our researchers are sitting in their labs watching proteins dance for little or no reason. |
Just because research is focusing on the science behind neuropsychiatric disorders does not mean that it is necessarily being driven by the search for a "cure." With better genetic studies, we have the potential to find a true diagnostic test for neuropsych disorders, as well as find a way to get rid of the "trial-and-error" method currently being used with psychiatric medications. A simple blood test may, in the future, be able to tell that Johnny will respond to Risperdal, whereas Suzie will respond to lithium. In addition, neuroscience and genetic research of neuropsych disorders is vital in understanding how the human brain works. There is so little that we currently know, and every new finding we discover helps unlock the mystery and greatness behind human cognition. Maybe teasing apart neuroanatomy and DNA differences doesn't offer an obvious benefit to those suffering right now, but that doesn't mean that it isn't important and not worth investigating.
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Nash: Recognition...
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Nash: Is there a difference? |
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howzat
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 24, 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 1742
Location: Hornsey North London
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think autism should ever be cured. |
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