aspiebostonian
Hummingbird
Joined: Mar 18, 2012
Posts: 20
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 Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:20 pm Post subject: Bullying in the Workplace |
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I work in finance at a well-known university. I work with someone who is in part jealous of me because she wants to do what I do but cannot do it, pretty much because she is not qualified. I had to tell her to turn down her music once because it was so loud I could hear it with my office door closed. Since that time, which was 13 months ago, she has held a serious grudge against me. She now whistles, hums and sings to herself, in part because she knows it bothers me because I have complained about it (I have sensory integration issues like most Aspies). She has bumped into me in the hall, and she is otherwise cold and aloof to me. She also opens windows just outside our office in the winter time, which makes the hallway by the bathrooms and water cooler very cold, and when I get the window locked she manages to later get it unlocked and opened again. I am trying to work with HR - to whom I recently disclosed my condition - to come up with solutions. I did videotape her humming and making noise with my iPhone today, but because my boss is unsympathetic I feel her behavior may never change and there may never be a resolution here.
Does anyone have any recommendations or experience on how to deal with workplace bullying, or have any ideas on how I can build a case against this person for bullying, passive-aggressive though it may be?
Thanks. |
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OliveOilMom
Queen of cans and jars
Joined: Nov 12, 2011
Posts: 6772
Location: Living in Faulkner's nightmare
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Well, if there was actual bullying I'd say to notify her superior and have documentation to prove it, then let them handle it. Trying to annoy you isn't bullying, as annoying as it may be. The things she is doing are within normal limits of behavior, and they are things that you have to get used to if you are working in an environment where you will ever be around other people.
Just because you have AS does not mean that you are exempt from people who don't like you trying to annoy you, nor does that mean that it's worse when they do it to you than to somebody else. If you can't work out your problems with her, then I'd suggest talking to your boss and telling him that you find some things very annoying and distracting and that she continues to do them even though you have asked her to stop. He may or may not be able/willing to help you on this.
I would suggest that you do not go into HR with some major bullying story and act like you are being persecuted and this is so terrible etc. See it in the perspective of the rest of the people who work there, even if it's not in that same perspective to you. Blowing it out of proportion is going to do nothing more than make you look like you overreact and make them not take you seriously if an actual bullying issue were to come up. I'd really suggest something like earplugs, etc or finding some way to ignore her. Getting all bent out of shape about it is what she wants you to do, because she knows that she's not technically doing anything wrong, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
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Frances
What if Jessie's girl was Stacy's mom and her number was 867-5309? |
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kirayng
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 13, 2011
Age: 36
Posts: 745
Location: Maine, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Time to hire a lawyer.  Are you in the US? You could get some good cash from a settlement. It's harassment, of a person with a disclosed disability covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act. Just something to ponder. |
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aspiebostonian
Hummingbird
Joined: Mar 18, 2012
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: Bullying in the Workplace |
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| OliveOilMom, I think it's very interesting that you assume my boss is a man. That is not the case. I also disagree with your definition of bullying. I have gone to HR, and they have referred me to the Office of Disability Services. I am going to fill out a form to request accommodations. Even if I only do get to wear headphones around her, it will allow me to show her that I am standing up to her annoying behavior by taking action. I was bullied as a child and I will be damned if I just stand around and put up with it as an adult.I have tried to speak to her, and work things out, and she has said, "Get lost". So, I am going to look into my options. |
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OliveOilMom
Queen of cans and jars
Joined: Nov 12, 2011
Posts: 6772
Location: Living in Faulkner's nightmare
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: Bullying in the Workplace |
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| aspiebostonian wrote: | | OliveOilMom, I think it's very interesting that you assume my boss is a man. That is not the case. I also disagree with your definition of bullying. I have gone to HR, and they have referred me to the Office of Disability Services. I am going to fill out a form to request accommodations. Even if I only do get to wear headphones around her, it will allow me to show her that I am standing up to her annoying behavior by taking action. I was bullied as a child and I will be damned if I just stand around and put up with it as an adult.I have tried to speak to her, and work things out, and she has said, "Get lost". So, I am going to look into my options. |
I don't assume your boss is a man. I was always taught that if you don'nt know the sex of a person to use the general "he". It applies to men as well as women. Unless it is something that is pretty much female (mother, wet nurse, housekeeper, nanny) then the general "he" is correct to use. It doesn't imply anything.
As for your disagreement about my definition of bullying, thats fine with me. I've been bullied a whole lot when I was younger and learned to stand up for myself and it stopped. I've also been annoyed a whole lot and can see the difference. So what if she said "get lost"? Thats being rude, not bullying. There is a difference. I'm not saying that you are wrong to be annoyed, I'm saying you are overreacting to the situation.
If you want to play the bullying card, you are honestly just going to make yourself seem ridiculous about it to other people, even though it may be something very serious to you. Most people do not and cannot understand how serious some little thing can be to someone with AS. I've had to learn that, even before I knew I had AS. Not everybody takes things the same way I do. I overreact a lot. I had to stop that because I was making myself look stupid.
I'm just trying to give you some advice so you don't ruin any good reputation you have around there.
If we want the same chances that NT's have, we have to be willing to put up with annoyances from time to time. Your going over the top with this and blaming AS on not being able to tell the difference between bullying and annoying will cause the powers that be at your company to pass someone else over with AS because they don't want the extra drama that comes with it, and they will think we will all be like that because you were.
I'm not saying don't do anything about it. I'm saying don't go in there ready to portray yourself as the victim of a big bad bully and you need the nice bosses to stand up for you. Simply tell them that you get very distracted and annoyed by the behavior of the girl (and don't go into why you think she's doing it or that you think she's doing it to bully you) and that you can't get her to stop, and that it's more distracting to you than to others because you have AS and could they please talk to her about it. You'll get a lot more accomplished by playing it low key and like a normal person than going in there all upset with tons of drama.
But hey, it's your career, do whatever you want about it. I don't know anything, I've simply learned how to function, survive and succeed in the NT world.
_________________
Frances
What if Jessie's girl was Stacy's mom and her number was 867-5309? |
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aspiebostonian
Hummingbird
Joined: Mar 18, 2012
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:24 pm Post subject: Bullying in the Workplace |
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OliveOilMom,
I was taught to use he or she, but I often use she or he because that's just me.
Maybe it makes better sense to just point out that she is annoying and distracting when I fill out the accommodations form. But, someone else used the word bullying to me when I first described the situation to them, and it makes sense to me. It's not the outright name-calling I had to deal with as a child, but the intention is the same, and I am leaving out details about the situation.So, I will just fill out the form and focus on the sensory integration and social communications issues to see what can be done.
The hard part of this is that I got my diagnosis and then my psychiatrist quit. And, I made an appointment with another doctor who is a specialist, but they are so booked up that my appointment is not until late-August. I may be able to see someone in the interim but they are not a specialist. So, I am in a holding pattern. I guess I am going to have to use this site as a resource in the meantime and hope this situation works out for the best until I can get the therapy that will hopefully make me a happy-go-lucky but still motivated and ambitious person who says everything with tact and finesse. Or, at least get a lot closer to being that person. |
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OliveOilMom
Queen of cans and jars
Joined: Nov 12, 2011
Posts: 6772
Location: Living in Faulkner's nightmare
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 2:09 am Post subject: Re: Bullying in the Workplace |
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| aspiebostonian wrote: | OliveOilMom,
I was taught to use he or she, but I often use she or he because that's just me.
I don't know how old you are, but I'm 48 and went to school in the 70's in Alabama, to a private school, so they were probably more old fashioned proper than is taught now. I'm sure it's been changed to he or she, or s/he, or even zie which I've seen and is just wierd, but a lot of older people were taught to use he as a default. It's much simpler than writing more.
Maybe it makes better sense to just point out that she is annoying and distracting when I fill out the accommodations form. But, someone else used the word bullying to me when I first described the situation to them, and it makes sense to me. It's not the outright name-calling I had to deal with as a child, but the intention is the same, and I am leaving out details about the situation.So, I will just fill out the form and focus on the sensory integration and social communications issues to see what can be done.
I honestly do not see that as bullying. I see it as her being a douche. Lots of people are jackasses, but that doesn't make them bullies. It minimizes the seriousness of bullying for people to catagorize this type of minor annoyance (major annoyance to some, but still annoyance) as bullying. Bullying chips away at a person's self esteem, it victimizes them and makes them feel powerless. What she's doing is annoying and while you may feel powerless to stop her from doing it because it's within the realm of normal human behavior, it probably doesn't reduce your self esteem or cause you to feel helpless and victimized as you would if she were overtly picking on you.
It does make much better sense to inform the people you talk to about this that you have a condition that causes you to be easily distracted by certain things, which you try to avoid at work. You informed her of this and she refuses to stop doing them, so you can only assume that she's simply trying to annoy you. Say that you assume it, don't try and assign any motivation other than that to her actions. It's already going to seem trivial to the people you talk to, because that kind of thing probably doesn't bother them, so you don't want to go completely over the top with it and make them think you're crazy, which is exactly what the HR people will think if you go all out "shes bullying me because she's jealous and she's out to get me and she won't stop etc etc etc". You probably won't have to show any kind of diagnosis proof to them because you aren't asking for something that will be difficult to provide. It's not like you are asking for the lighting to be changed, or the overhead paging system to stop or that no one wear cologne in the office, etc. You are asking for something reasonable, so be reasonable and sound reasonable when you ask for it. Mention that you are happy to wear headphones (if you already have them that is, if not, tell them that you would have to buy them and that they are expensive) but it would be much simpler to ask her to stop the uneccessary noise.
The hard part of this is that I got my diagnosis and then my psychiatrist quit. And, I made an appointment with another doctor who is a specialist, but they are so booked up that my appointment is not until late-August. I may be able to see someone in the interim but they are not a specialist. So, I am in a holding pattern. I guess I am going to have to use this site as a resource in the meantime and hope this situation works out for the best until I can get the therapy that will hopefully make me a happy-go-lucky but still motivated and ambitious person who says everything with tact and finesse. Or, at least get a lot closer to being that person. |
Now, bear with this old lady for a minute while I give you a little background on me and why I may sometimes sound like an unsympathetic hardass about things. It's not going to be a "When I was your age I had to walk barefoot in the snow to school, ten miles uphill both ways" story but it's definately different than what younger folks get today.
I was diagnosed in my 40's and have never had therapy for AS. I've had it for depression and anxiety before I knew I had AS, but by the time I found out I had it, and after I did the research on it, it was more of an "Ooooohhhh, THATS why I'm like this" thing, rather than a "I'm going to have to learn how to deal with this" thing. I had already learned to deal with it because I had no idea that I thought or felt any different than anyone else. I thought that everyone was as sensitive to certain things as I was, or had as much trouble learning and doing certain things as I did, but that they just forced themselves to do it and keep doing it until it got easier and easier and came someone naturally. That's exactly the way I did it and learned to cope in the world.
I learned social skills from some girls I met when I was a young teenager and they accepted me and after they found out I'm nice, and fun to be around, and could make good jokes and have good ideas etc once I was relaxed with them they wanted to teach me how to deal with socializing with others. They did that by helping me out, telling me EXACTLY what to say, practicing with me, and at times just forcing me to do something that I was afraid to do. One friend would get mad and yell at me in private, not in an angry way but in a frustrated way. "Frances, you have GOT to show them how you really are! They think you're a freak because you don't SAY ANYTHING and you let people walk all OVER you! You are just like everybody else, you're just afraid to show it, now get out there and open your mouth and talk! You don't ever shutup when it's just us now DO IT!" and I'd do it and it would get easier and easier. I knew she wasn't being mean, it was the way a coach yells at the players. She had confidence in me and enough faith in me to believe that I could do it and was frustrated that people saw me as a freak when I really wasn't. Thats the kind of way I learned. I forced myself.
It didn't just get better immediately after my teenage years. I had to learn for over a decade that I'd have to learn to put up with certain things. I got no free pass or got excused because something bothered me really bad that didn't seem to bother others. I thought that it did bother them but they were dealing with it and not letting it show. So I didn't let it show, but was bothered a lot. Over time it got to be less and less of a problem, even though things still bother me its no more of an issue than having to ride with someone in a car and the radio is on something I don't like. It's annoying, but it will be over soon.
If I had known I had AS, I never could have done that. I was overprotected and treated like I was made out of glass because I had severe allergies and respiratory infections as a child, and my mother was convinced that I couldn't do anything without getting hurt or sick. She never wanted me to try, not anything at all, ever. By the time I was about 12 or 13 I was in that rebellion phase and my rebellion phase was showing her that I could do anything the other kids could do. I joined the basketball team. I sucked at it because I'm not athletic at all but it was the first year we had girls basketball and they took anybody, and I actually got to play a few games and I could do free throws great, but that's all. My athletic type skills were not consistant, such as the being able to make a free throw but nothing else, and I also tried out for majorette and found out that I was very, very good at twirling. ' I was shocked as was everybody who knew me because I can't walk across a flat dry surface without tripping over my own feet, but I was great and graceful with a baton. It was VERY difficuult to get in front of the school and do that, but I did it. It got easier.
My point with this long story is that it's not comfortable to do the things that are difficult. In fact it's VERY UNCOMFORTABLE. Therapy is not going to suddenly make it comfortable, and if you wait until you are comfortable, you'll never do it. You have to start pushing yourself some, little by little every day to go a little farther, deal with a little more. Don't push yourself to a meltdown or shutdown, but take it as far as you can without causing too much stress. It's going to cause stress. Push yourself out of your comfort zone. Make yourself deal with something (like her humming or whatever) for a certain amount of time each day without showing annoyance. Pretend youre in a movie or something and acting the part of somebody who isn't bothered by it. Deal with it as long as you can, then put on the headphones or something. The next day, do it the same amount of time, no more. So on and so on until it's not that hard to deal with it for that long. It's not pleasant, you can't ignore it, but it's not as hard as before. Then do it longer the next time. It can be anything that you have trouble with that you need to deal with to function the way you want to. Basically do it for as long as you can the first time. Then the same amount of time every day or everytime you encounter the situation, until it's not that bad. Then add more time until thats not that bad, etc. Unless it is something that you physically cannot do, this will work.
I've had such severe panic and anxiety that at times I couldn't even endure five minutes of something, but I'd set five minutes as the goal and do it. Maybe not well, but I'd do it. Every day until I could get through that fairly well. Etc, etc etc.
I hope I didn't bore you or offend you with my long drawn out post here, but I honestly think that doing it that way will help a lot of people. It may not help everybody with everything, depending on how severe their symptoms are. But I do think that more people could do more than they already do, if they pushed themselves and didn't know there was anything different about them. Certainly not everybody, but many who were diagnosed'at a young age and the knee jerk reaction of parents and professionals was accomodations as a first line of defense, rather than giving them a chance to try a good bit and see if they can learn to manage it. I'm all for accomodations for people who need them and reasonable accomodations for personal comfort ie; your headphones, etc. I just think that a lot of us who were dx'd young ended up with an "I can't" attitude about a lot of things, that they subconsciously picked up from parents annd teachers. But that's a whole new thread.
So, good luck, and remember, low key, reasonable, willing to compromise, don't make it a big deal, and if someone asks if it's bullying or tries to catagorize it as bullying, I'd say something along the lines of "I wouldn't exactly say that, I'd say basically a lack of manners and consideration for others". That puts you in a good light as the reasonable party and her as the unreasonable douche. You want to come off as low key and reasonable because you may need to ask for other accomodations later and you don't want them to think "Oh no, not this person again!" you want them to think "Oh, this is a reasonable person, let me see what I can do to help".
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Frances
What if Jessie's girl was Stacy's mom and her number was 867-5309? |
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Disraeli
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Apr 27, 2012
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| Well, I hate to break it to you but what you describe isn't really bullying. I suggest you talk to your supervisor, but if they can't deal with it I doubt there is much you can do about it. |
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OliveOilMom
Queen of cans and jars
Joined: Nov 12, 2011
Posts: 6772
Location: Living in Faulkner's nightmare
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| Disraeli wrote: | | Well, I hate to break it to you but what you describe isn't really bullying. I suggest you talk to your supervisor, but if they can't deal with it I doubt there is much you can do about it. |
Right, it's an annoying horse's ass which everybody runs into from time to time. Learning to handle them is important. Also, learning to state your case in a reasonable, non urgent, not dramatic way is paramount to keeping a good reputation and respect at work.
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Frances
What if Jessie's girl was Stacy's mom and her number was 867-5309? |
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aspiebostonian
Hummingbird
Joined: Mar 18, 2012
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject: Bullying in the Workplace |
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OliveOilMom,
Well, it was a long, drawn-out post, but we are known for being detail oriented, and I often do the same thing myself. I do appreciate your advice and what you have to say. Overall, I think it is good advice. And, I have learned more over time to accept that not everyone will agree with me, so it's good to get different perspective on things.
I am not sure if you are thinking I am younger than you are, but I happen to be in my mid-30's, and I was only diagnosed two months ago. Also, I was raised in the South and went to school there, but remember that often "they" was used instead of "he" so as to not come across as biased when referring to a person of unknown gender, or that "he or she" was often used in referring to a person of unknown gender. I guess it's just a matter or preference, but it's good to know why someone was writing a certain way.
Anyway, I have gone through a lot of what you have gone through, but didn't receive a lot of support. Nevertheless, I am willing to work to improve certain things. I just hope this situation stops getting worse and starts to improve. I do recognize that I have a good job, and I want my career to progress rather than stagnating or regressing. |
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heatherbk
Velociraptor
Joined: Apr 24, 2011
Posts: 433
Location: New York
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: Re: Bullying in the Workplace |
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| aspiebostonian wrote: | I work in finance at a well-known university. I work with someone who is in part jealous of me because she wants to do what I do but cannot do it, pretty much because she is not qualified. I had to tell her to turn down her music once because it was so loud I could hear it with my office door closed. Since that time, which was 13 months ago, she has held a serious grudge against me. She now whistles, hums and sings to herself, in part because she knows it bothers me because I have complained about it (I have sensory integration issues like most Aspies). She has bumped into me in the hall, and she is otherwise cold and aloof to me. She also opens windows just outside our office in the winter time, which makes the hallway by the bathrooms and water cooler very cold, and when I get the window locked she manages to later get it unlocked and opened again. I am trying to work with HR - to whom I recently disclosed my condition - to come up with solutions. I did videotape her humming and making noise with my iPhone today, but because my boss is unsympathetic I feel her behavior may never change and there may never be a resolution here.
Does anyone have any recommendations or experience on how to deal with workplace bullying, or have any ideas on how I can build a case against this person for bullying, passive-aggressive though it may be?
Thanks. |
I'm currently reading this book called the no as*hole rule and the book offers couple of strategies to surviving office assholes. One of them is called emotional detachment I believe. Don't let her get a rise out of you. Try to stay unaffected by her nasty behaviors. If you have a chance, read the book. This book has helped me tremendously in understanding one workplace as*hole that I just cannot stand. |
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thewhitrbbit
Phoenix
Joined: May 31, 2012
Age: 27
Posts: 2130
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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I think Disability Support would be a good bet. They work with faculty/staff/students.
Headphones seems reasonable. Otherwise I'd say try to ignore her.
I have to agree; over exaggerating the story will only backfire. |
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Bunnynose
Sea Gull
Joined: May 18, 2012
Posts: 200
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| Disraeli wrote: | | Well, I hate to break it to you but what you describe isn't really bullying. I suggest you talk to your supervisor, but if they can't deal with it I doubt there is much you can do about it. |
A saboteur, which is what aspiebostonian seems to be describing, is just another kind of bully, someone who is sneaky passive-aggressive instead of in-your-face hurtful.
In his "Coping with Difficult People," Robert Bramson wrote about Sherman tanks, Snipers and Exploders. These kinds of creeps think they are right and are willing to prove their victims wrong anyway they can. Looks like aspiebostonian is dealing with a Sniper. How to cope with one? Bramson suggested:
(1) Surface the attack(s)
(2) Provide a peaceful alternative to open warfare
(3) Seek group confirmation or denial of the Sniper's criticism (and in AB's case, acts)
(4) Deal with the underlying problems
Also get some foam ear plugs and have the office manager put out a memorandum that during winter time, especially whenever it snows, windows are not to be opened unless first authorized by management. |
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