militarybrat
Deinonychus
Joined: Aug 23, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 316
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 Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| I think the main reasons that we make such good targets is that not only are we different we're a bit more subtle in our difference. Instead of having enough of a difference for people, peers especially, to relize that we have a disorder they just see us as freaks. Sometimes, as we basically lack physical markers and can at times look completly normal, our disorder is denied. They think we are intentionally acting this way and therefore deserve it. Our social nievity and ackwardness get us into further trouble. Help is not always available and children with AS are often put in emotional support classes where they also tend to put children with CD. In doing this they place the kids who are genetically the perfect targets with those who are genetically the perfect bullies. Beyond this are many explanationsbut a simple answer is that people are cruel and we're more convienient channels for that cruelty. |
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Triangular_Trees
What is right is sometimes found on the left.
Joined: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 2053
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| and then one someone steps into break it up, the aspie adamantly denies kissing anyone so the intervener thinks the aspie started the fight just because he's been accused of kissing |
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bruinsy33
Velociraptor
Joined: Aug 01, 2011
Posts: 443
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Dear Aspie:WHY ARE ASPIES VULNERABLE TO BULLYING? |
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| GroovyDruid wrote: | | Quote: | Hello All:
Jman submitted this excellent question to my blog/column Dear Aspie.... I thought parents especially might find it and the reply interesting.
-GroovyDruid |
jman wrote:
"What exactly is it that makes aspies vulnerable to bullying and other forms of victimization? Is it a certain facial expression, or tone of voice, or a certain gesture or what?"
Whoa. Good question there. Don't we all wish we'd known the answer to this one sooner...
Pundits in psychology, after earning their Masters of the Obvious, will tell you with a straight face and much gravity that aspies get picked on because they're ... different. Unfortunately, this brilliant assertion gets us no nearer to understanding the specific behavior that incites bullying and that's what's important if we want to change our behavior to alleviate the bullying.
Aspies put off classic submissive body language as a natural course of events. You asked about facial expressions, voice tones, and gestures: well, all of these play a role. Aspies make poor and infrequent eye contact. In the NT world, that means you are affraid to face someone. It means you can't hold your ground. Aspies, as they get comfortable, tend to curl up, slouch down, and cross their arms. In NT body language, these gestures signal withdrawl, fear, and defensiveness. An NT will sense--rightly or wrongly--that the aspie won't tangle with him.
And unfortunately, this is often true--an aspie won't fight. Why? Well, apart from the fact that many aspies lack the physical coordination and fighting skills of their peers, many aspies hold a gross misconception: they think human interaction is sane or logical. Aspies usually think that when a conflict presents itself, there has been a misunderstanding, and they can resolve the problem by sane discourse if they look hard enough. They get caught in a morass of indecision and end up taking a raft of cr*p from whoever happens to be confusing them with false, badgering statements. Here's an example, with the subtext of the statements in parentheses. See if it looks familiar:
BIG LUTHER-So I heard your were kissing my girlfriend. (I want to fight you because something inside tells me I need to)
ASPIE-No. I didn't even know you had a girlfriend. (No, I didn't)
BIG LUTHER-Well I heard you slobbered all over her, shrimpy. (I'm going to make you fight me to defend your honor)
ASPIE-I haven't kissed any girls at all. (You've clearly got the wrong guy pegged for the crime)
BIG LUTHER-(pushing Aspie) What if I say you did? (I just want to fight, moron! Forget about the girl!)
ASPIE-(crossing his arms) I still didn't kiss anybody. (I'm certain I didn't do anything wrong)
And on and on. Now of course Luther is going to see the aspie cross his arms and take it as a sign of withdrawing in the face of antagonism, and go after the aspie twice as hard, because he thinks he's got him beat. The thing to notice is that, if you read the subtexts in brackets, they don't match up. Luther is implying one thing with his words and body language. The aspie is deducing quite another message and responding to the wrong message. He won't fight, because he doesn't see that there's anything to fight about. It would be different if Big Luther just came out with the blunt truth:
BIG LUTHER-I want to fight you because my stepdad pushed me around this morning and I feel like taking it out on you.
ASPIE-Any way of avoiding this unfortunate incident?
BIG LUTHER-Nope.
ASPIE-(sigh, raising fists) Tally ho, then.
Aspies run afoul of authority and power by unknowingly projecting signs of aggressiveness and arrogance as well. It is the diametrically opposed problem. Since they don't know body language very (well if at all), they don't know when they are putting off signs of arrogance and aggressiveness such as staring at a bully (a challenge), standing apart from any group (setting oneself apart from herd), not making small talk with peers, putting hands on the hips (aggressive), sitting higher on the bleachers than the bully (attempting to dominate), or talking to girls the bully has earmarked as his own.
NTs have a natural hardwired system in their brains that prevents many of these faux pas in the presense of a supieror power. When an aspie unknowingly makes the wrong moves, he broadcasts an intention to challenge the Lion of the Woods. The result is merciless persecution.
You may now ask, "Why is it that the bullys need exercise these strange territorial behaviors in the first place? Why can't they control themselves?" The answer is that the bullies are rarely aware of the real reason they do many of these bullying behaviors. Their instincts, built into their genes, tell them they must dominate as many people as possible, control as many females as possible, control as much territory as possible, and destroy deviant members of the tribe such as aspies and homosexuals. Since they aren't very well aware of these subconscious urges, it's next to impossible to argue with them.
Can aspies avoid bullying? To some extent, if they learn the rules of NT body language. Aspies who speak body language can often avoid the two species of problems discussed above. But even these learned aspies won't avoid all the pitfalls, and the only solution is to consult a higher power, such as a teacher, and give him or her a rigorous explanation: "You cannot leave me with these bullies! They are programmed down to their DNA to misunderstand me and make my life hell!" A rigorous explanation obviates any line from the higher power like, "You need to learn to handle bullies on your own." This is ignorant nonsense. Aspies are fundamentally different people and must take special measures to ensure their lives are livable.
(If you would like to ask a question of "Dear Aspie..." about flirting, small talk, and other mysteries of non-verbal communication, simply PM your question to GroovyDruid. Due to the amount of PMs received, not all questions will be published, but they'll all be considered. Thanks for sharing!) |
I know this is an old article /post but it is a very interesting and relevant one.I know that I have been bullied as a child and some of the points in the article were likely the reason.I happen to be very good at my job now so I think that is one reason I don't get bullied now as an adult but I am sure many Aspies have been bullied in the work place. |
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lbanquer
Emu Egg
Joined: Jan 16, 2013
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:24 am Post subject: |
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Great post and highly congruant with my experience as a child. Through grade school and junior high I was teased and bullied quite a bit. High school and beyond it wasn't a problem, although there were several incidents of "misunderstanding". This is likely because I was slowly picking up on appropriate behavior, and the majority of my peers were maturing beyond hierarchial dominance worldviews at the time.
You asked if there is something aspie kids do that triggers the bullying, and your points on submissive signals (body language) and down right cluelessness as to what the hell the NTs are thinking is consistant with my theory.
Something I didn't even pick up on until adulthood is that most NTs tease eachother constantly...I think its one of there favorite things to do! Since then I've grown to appreciate it and life is way more fun. I believe this is a hierachial interaction amoung peers to signal equality and understanding between eachother.
When someone tries to push you around there are only a few general signals you can send: cluelessness, submisiveness, indifference or retaliation. Being clueless signals that you are an outsider, triggering active marginalization. Being submissive activates hierachy/dominance tendencies in others. Combine clueless and submisive signals, that's the recipe for bullying.
Signalling that you "get it", then being either indifferent or retaliating (in a fun way consistant with the group's dynamic) is a recipe for comraderie.
On an anecdotal note: In junior high I got in a brief pushing match with another kid on the play ground (I think we were both just irritated at the time). A teacher grabbed us and asked "Were you fighting, were you fighting?" I wasn't sure what to say (taking it too literal) and had a compulsion to be truthful as I interpretted it...so my answer was "yes". Well me and the other kid were suspended. My dad didn't understand me at all..."why didn't you hit him? when someone pulls that on me I just hit them!" I was thinking, "they just suspended me for pushing, what are they going to do to me if I hit someone?" |
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hanyo
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 01, 2011
Posts: 3413
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| violet_yoshi wrote: | | I heard sometimes schools use bullies, to try and get students who might be less compliant to comply. This could be a reason they target Aspies, since we're known not to mindlessly fallow authority. |
I remember them doing that when I was in school. Isn't the whole "punish everyone because of one person" thing a way to encourage good behavior through peer pressure/bullying?
It never worked on me. |
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Mindsigh
Phoenix
Joined: May 30, 2012
Age: 46
Posts: 2539
Location: Ailleurs
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:24 am Post subject: |
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I was bullied as a child because I didn't understand that when people teased me, they didn't really mean it and I was just supposed to insult them back and laugh. So people would just keep going and going, just to see what I'd do.
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"I have heard the mermaids singing each to each. They do not sing to me." -T. S. Eliot, The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock |
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