Venger
Seal
Joined: Apr 16, 2008
Posts: 2508
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 Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| Diamorphine wrote: | | Venger wrote: | | Mentally retarded people are more likely to be a "race" because it affects the way they physically look especially their facial features. |
That's why they called Down Syndrome Mongolism before the Mongolians said it was insulting. |
The 1956 movie "The Conqueror" where John Wayne plays the mongol Genghis Khan sounds pretty retarded. |
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Chris71
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: May 25, 2011
Posts: 196
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If there is a next step in human evolution (which there will be some time) - autism and Asperger's is not it. |
My opinion also.
Time for a poll I think?
_________________
AQ : 19/50
Phenotype : 89 aloof, 64 rigid, 65 pragmatic
Aspie score: 96 of 200
Neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 129 of 200 |
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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Rasta is about freedom and the living God
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Joined: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 7998
Location: Babylon
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:21 am Post subject: Re: How come so many people here treat AS like a race/club? |
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| Diamorphine wrote: | I know you're trying to not let your AS diagnosis limit yourself by saying it's not a disease, but it's incredibly counter-productive to start treating it like an exclusive club or race. It's as much of a race/club as schizophrenia, ADHD, and cancer. It's not a "Way of life", you CHOOSE your way of life, you're given AS. Trivializing the disease will lead to the entire world thinking it's a joke, similar to what happened with ADHD. Every parent in the world thought their kid had it, and now the 1% of those children who actually DO have ADHD get screwed because people still think of it as "kids who can't sit still". That's like associating asthma with "fat people who can't run" rather than a serious, treatable disease.
By acting all high and mighty claiming you ASD race is superior to others and view a cure as an ethnic genocide, you're only trivializing it more, and eventually people are going to stop thinking it actually exists. |
People treat it like a club because they have this innate need to belong to a clique. It's in most humans. So, AS is just another clique. I have this desire to not belong to cliques. My immediate instinct is to recoil at the thought of being in a group. This might be the angle you are looking at the situation from as well. So I think of it is just being a diagnosis. Nothing more. It's just the opinion of whomever first observed it, this Asperger dude. It is not a limitation, just a fixed idea thought up by one individual and caught on, spreading to others. It could be cult-like if left unquestioned.
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JUST LET THE GUY BE FROM K PAX!!!!!! |
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Diamorphine
Blue Jay
Joined: Jul 29, 2011
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| "The next step in human evolution" makes people with AS seem grandiose with a retardedly huge superiority complex. I'd rather be looked at as weird than a crazy ass schizo who thinks he's god. |
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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Rasta is about freedom and the living God
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Joined: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 7998
Location: Babylon
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Diamorphine wrote: | | "The next step in human evolution" makes people with AS seem grandiose with a retardedly huge superiority complex. I'd rather be looked at as weird than a crazy ass schizo who thinks he's god. |
That's being too negative.
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JUST LET THE GUY BE FROM K PAX!!!!!! |
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Keeno
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 09, 2006
Posts: 4948
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| Chris71 wrote: | | Quote: | | If there is a next step in human evolution (which there will be some time) - autism and Asperger's is not it. |
My opinion also.
Time for a poll I think? |
Go for it, why not.  I'm confident there'd be a landslide 'no' vote, if you asked whether autism/AS is the next stage in evolution. |
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Guineapigged
Velociraptor
Joined: Sep 17, 2011
Age: 21
Posts: 410
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:46 am Post subject: |
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I agree. I feel very uncomfortable when I come across people treating autism like some kind of superior lifestyle. There's a difference between accepting who you are and being happy with that, and rubbing it in people's faces. I've seen the term "neurotypical" (a word I hate) being used almost as a derogatory term. "You NTs wouldn't understand." Nearly every day I see some question on this forum along the lines of, "What do you hate most about NTs?" and it makes me feel sick. Lumping all non-autistic people in to a category like that and making sweeping generalisations is as bad as racism or sexism, in my opinion.
Having an autism spectrum condition isn't an achievement any more than having blue eyes or webbed feet is. |
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Mummy_of_Peanut
Countess de Noir
Joined: Feb 21, 2011
Age: 40
Posts: 3474
Location: Bonnie Scotland
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:47 am Post subject: |
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OP, I don't know where you're bumping into those people with grandiose ideas like that. Most of the people on WP are here for support, from those with similar issues, not to claim superiority. In fact, any that have made such claims have turned out to be internet trolls.
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"We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all we need to make us really happy is something to be enthusiatic about." Charles Kingsley |
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wokndead
Snowy Owl
Joined: Jan 19, 2012
Age: 35
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Mummy_of_Peanut wrote: | | OP, I don't know where you're bumping into those people with grandiose ideas like that. Most of the people on WP are here for support, from those with similar issues, not to claim superiority. In fact, any that have made such claims have turned out to be internet trolls. |
I agree. I also disagree with those who say AS is a "disease." Saying that implies that AS, itself, can be cured or treated. Such is not the case. You can treat some of the things that come along with AS, such as depression, etc. But it is a neurological difference. It's not a virus, or a tumor, or brain damage. It can't be fixed with medication or surgery. People with severe AS can go through BCT in order to fit in better socially with "normal folk." However, some of us could care less. We're comfortable with who we are, and it's the NT's who don't understand who have the problem. The majority of our problems are social issues, because we simply don't think the same way you do. There's nothing actually wrong with the way we think. We don't have hallucinations. Most of us are not generally paranoid. And if there is paranoia, it's usually due to some kind of bad social experience, not something wrong with the brain. A vast majority of aspies aren't looking for a cure. We're looking for acceptance. And obviously we're not getting that from someone like the OP.
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-- Wokndead --
AQ:38 -- Aspie score: 147/200 -- NT score: 55/200
"I remind myself of someone I almost met at a party I never went to."
"Whoever said nothing's impossible never tried slamming a revolving door." |
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Chris71
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: May 25, 2011
Posts: 196
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | We're comfortable with who we are, |
You might be, but I'm certainly not. Another good subject for a WP poll though.
| Quote: | | ... it's the NT's who don't understand who have the problem |
I beg to differ. It's the majority of NTs that are the ones capable of both intellectual as well as social pleasure. They are the ones that find enjoyment from social gatherings, we are the ones that are drained by it. You might say we should just choose things that we do enjoy, but that would mean social exclusion and that is something I do care passionately about.
| Quote: | | those who regard AS seem grandiose with a retardedly huge superiority complex |
I'm sure they are in the minority. Although I generally feel very "challenged" compared to the majority of NTs, and I feel only an overwhelmingly depressing INferiority by having aspie traits, it is quite ironic that I found the article on "Neurotypical Personality Disorder" very amusing.
Although that article implies a comical superiority complex over NTs, it would be read by most of us as a way of dealing with frustrations associated with aspie tendencies, and observing the irrationality of many NTs in a comical way, I found great relief. That doesn't mean to say one has to have the notion of aspie superiority to enjoy it. |
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Mummy_of_Peanut
Countess de Noir
Joined: Feb 21, 2011
Age: 40
Posts: 3474
Location: Bonnie Scotland
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:35 am Post subject: |
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I also disagree with the word 'disease' being used. Talking of my daughter (as she's the one most likely to get a diagnosis in the near future), she definitely does not have a disease. She's on the spectrum, probably not Aspergers, but something akin to it. She's very high functioning and will probably go to university, if she wants to and get married, if the opportunity arises and she wants to. She struggles with some things, but there are many other things which she excels at, where most other kids struggle, e.g. imagination, art, singing and thinking. Take away the ASD and I'm certain you'd take away the amazing stuff, which makes her special, too. She's gifted as well as having an ASD and I'm convinced the two come hand in hand, in her case anyway. She's neither superior nor inferior, she's just different from average. Yes, there are times when I wish she had better social skills and better concentration, but we're working on that and she's progressing really well. Without intervention, she could grow up to be a lot like me and my life doesn't suck, it's not perfect, but who has a perfect life?
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"We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all we need to make us really happy is something to be enthusiatic about." Charles Kingsley |
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NeueZiel
Seņorita Gamera
Joined: Apr 29, 2012
Posts: 1246
Location: Kapustin Yar
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| Just pitching in to say that I agree with you fully OP, for me its about learning to deal with it with a number of positive things -and- meds. I don't want to change who I am at the core but I also know that for so many years I was absolutely miserable and alone. I think the people that act like autism and AS are the next stepping stone for humanity's evolution are either really deluding themselves as a means of escape from the harsh pain of reality or there's really nothing wrong with them and they want to be special. The latter is a broad judgement and I don't think I have the right to make it but knowing the problems I've had myself growing up I don't see how anyone could refer to this as the next step in evolution. Maybe if I was more like Einstein or someone famous, but I'm not and I doubt the majority are. |
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jonny23
Velociraptor
Joined: Mar 28, 2012
Posts: 423
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| Diamorphine wrote: | I know you're trying to not let your AS diagnosis limit yourself by saying it's not a disease, but it's incredibly counter-productive to start treating it like an exclusive club or race. It's as much of a race/club as schizophrenia, ADHD, and cancer. It's not a "Way of life", you CHOOSE your way of life, you're given AS. Trivializing the disease will lead to the entire world thinking it's a joke, similar to what happened with ADHD. Every parent in the world thought their kid had it, and now the 1% of those children who actually DO have ADHD get screwed because people still think of it as "kids who can't sit still". That's like associating asthma with "fat people who can't run" rather than a serious, treatable disease.
By acting all high and mighty claiming you ASD race is superior to others and view a cure as an ethnic genocide, you're only trivializing it more, and eventually people are going to stop thinking it actually exists. |
At first I thought I disagreed with you because somehow I got the impression that you where saying you shouldn't feel good about who you are but I realized you where saying you shouldn't be elitist. I agree, do not underestimate the value of others, or their suffering. I think it's too easy, especially for people who have been discriminated against, to get together and do what's been done to them.
However I do not think that I have a disease or want a cure. I understand there are many who are afflicted worse than me that feel differently and if it makes their lives better then I hope they get it. But Lets say they rewired my brain when I was born, would my life be better? I'm not sure but I do know I wouldn't be me and I like me. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14813
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Diamorphine wrote: | | Chris71 wrote: | I agree, being on the spectrum is not something to be though of as some kind of exclusive club.
A poll on this site, under the title "Do you wish you were never born?" , 61% responded "yes, often".
In terms of those who are happy with their condition and don't want to be NT, I do admire that and I wish I could be the same. I guess if you compare yourself to the worst arrogant and selfish idiots in the NT World then of course I might rather be myself. However many NTs are also "neuro-rational" and highly intelligent. They get the best of both worlds.
I see a lot of posts that suggest NTs are inferior as a species. Yep, being on the spectrum is a very sad kind of "club" if anyone thinks like that. |
That's why we should let the AS people with superiority complexes/grandiose delusions have their little exclusive club and find a cure for the rest of them. |
I don't have a superiority complex nor do I want to be in any exclusive club, but I really don't want a cure.....for many reasons. For one I know how the brain I have works I probably would not know how to operate a neurotypical brain, and what side effects might the cure have? Also what would be the real motivation behind the cure to help me or satisfy what others want from me? Just to name a couple reasons.
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Last edited by Sweetleaf on Tue May 22, 2012 10:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ganondox
Visceral Diety
Joined: Oct 08, 2011
Age: 16
Posts: 3597
Location: Indonesia
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Diamorphine wrote: | | Atomsk wrote: | | I totally agree with you. I also think that the whole "Autism/AS is the next step in human evolution!" thing is a bunch of garbage. |
They think their helping AS people, but really all they're doing is turning it in to a big joke and when people stop thinking it exists you won't be viewed as an "aspie" just a "weirdo". Difference is, instead of thinking of your odd behavior as an ailment, they'll just think you're a big ol' douche who CHOOSES to act the way they do. Treat it like a disease(WHICH IS BY DEFINITION a bodily occurence that decreases the quality of life and/or shortens lifespan), put energy in to finding a cure or a drug that alleviates most of the symptoms. It being a disease isn't an insult, it's a fact. If you don't think of it as a disease, more power to you, that's a good attitude to have, but you still must realize it is a disease. |
Erhum, by defining disease as such is where you ruin your arguement. First, AS does not shorten life expectancy, so it's not a disease by that point. Second, what is "quality of life"? With mental conditions quality of life would be harder to assess as they would have different desires than ordinary people. Third, I'm sure some people will argue AS is not bodily. Finally, there is already enough research people put in researching those things, and I can say they haven't improved quality of life at all. Research could've put into things such as alternate education methods and services, but it's being blown on DNA research and drugs.
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