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Wandering_Stranger
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 07, 2012
Posts: 1191
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 Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| CanisMajor wrote: | | That is so true. That's why I'm so glad that my parents decided to try to re-direct my brother's ample energy, rather than take it away with adderal or ritalin. He hasn't made a living out of his musical talent (though, granted, he does work part-time at a radio station now. But he does technical stuff in that respect. It's not like he comes up with clever jingles.) It has made a huge impact on his life, however, and has (in part) come to define who he is. He's a music man now, for sure. I can't say that he would've been the same if he had been simply put on a drug. I can, however, say that I'd be missing an essential part of the brother that I love (the creative, spontaneous, fun, musical part!) |
I think things like this should be suggested and that medication such as ritalin should be a last resort.
My brother has Aspergers. He, at the of 14, refused medication. |
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Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 30
Posts: 9931
Location: Central USA
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Adderall or Ritalin don't "take away" your energy though. They're stimulants, as has been mentioned--they give you more energy, if anything. The reason they make you less hyperactive is that they give you more energy up in your head, and you can control yourself better, control your thoughts better. I stim less when I'm on Concerta, because I don't have to move as much to be able to think more clearly. It gives me more control--not less energy. The only time it really makes me "zombie out" is when I take too much of it. That intensifies the problems I have starting movements, and causes me to go pretty much catatonic for a half-hour or so after the dose. Naturally I refuse to take any more than 37 mg extended release, or 10 mg at a time normally, because of that effect. Dosing has to be carefully regulated; otherwise you get undesirable effects. Sometimes doctors don't realize that a higher dose is not necessarily a good thing, and that lowering the dose is an option too.
What does give me less energy is when I'm on any sort of neuroleptic--including Risperdal, which is the only medication approved for autism. That doesn't just make it harder to start movements, like a too-high dose of methylphenidate does. It actually makes it harder to think, to plan. It makes my ADHD traits worse. I probably couldn't have a meltdown on it if I wanted to (which is the point--neuroleptics for autism are usually prescribed for meltdowns)--but I also couldn't get anything done, and would likely be unable to live on my own, because of how difficult that is for me already and how much more impairment I experience on neuroleptics.
For the record, my diagnosis is ADHD-Inattentive, either Asperger's or PDD-NOS depending on which doctor you ask, and recurrent depression. (They're trying to pin Tourette's, PTSD, and narcolepsy on me too, but I know better than that--all those traits are subclinical and not worth diagnosis.)
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League_Girl
Proud mamma
Joined: Feb 05, 2010
Posts: 13669
Location: My house
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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I have been taking medicine since I was 10 years old and at first I didn't mind it until I found out it was not temporary. Then I didn't want to take it but mom made me. I had no choice. When you are a kid, you have no choice but get pills shoved down your throat. Turns out the pills I was on for two years were the wrong kind because ADD was not the correct diagnoses for me even though I do have it my mom says but it didn't explain everything. They messed me up in 6th grade so I had to be taken off them and I was pill less for a a while but I was put on different ones instead by my psychiatrist.
I haven't been on medicine since I was 23 and I don't plan to be even though my mother and husband both think I should but I don't want to pay the cost for them or give up breast feeding. |
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Senath
Deinonychus
Joined: May 17, 2012
Posts: 357
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| legomyego wrote: | careful with the adderall...can be great in the start...and a nightmare in the end.
Of course mileage varies....but be weary.
Fact:
Anyone regardless of adhd add nt or aspergers aderral will increase productivity.
It's a stimulant...and no matter who you are it will be stimulating to the mind/body.
Course there is the 1%'rs (probably billionairs.....{bad joke]) who will fall asleep on this stuff..........
But generally speaking stimulants act as their name insinuates.
There is a reason college kids buy adderall and the rest of the bunch to study...because it works regardless of your mental diagnosis/state.
On the downside....if your mental state is one of anxiety/paranoia and or delusion....it will increase these factors...
Hitler was given stimulants....look at those results....terrible out come but nobody can argue that he was not productive...though in a destructive way. |
They tried me on Adderall due to excessive sleeping (diagnosed with "idiopathic" hypersomnia 2-3 years ago). I was on it for about 6 months. They were astoundingly productive months compared to the rest of my life, and my obsession with organizing and categorizing came out with a whirl. I've been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder and I would say that my anxiety did increase a little, but I was actually awake so I had the energy to get things done that I would have been stressing over had I been without the medication. However, I moved and didn't get the prescription refilled, and that combined with a few other situational/financial problems sent me into the throes of deep depression very quickly, for a long time.
I decided to ditch the Adderall because I have a highly addictive personality and I shouldn't be around drugs like that, even if they help me to get my life in order initially. Towards the end I had even started upping the dose because it was within the levels that the doctor said were OK, even though I knew it probably wasn't healthy for ME personally. It was just great to be able to think so clearly and have everything orderly. I wish I remembered what the dosage was... |
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65536
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Sep 10, 2011
Posts: 191
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| uranium23567 wrote: | but there is two CORE things that I have NO problem with:
reading peoples facial expressions
picking up on metaphors in conversation, something i'm actually VERY good at
so I don't know. Maybe i'm just somewhere imbetween. falling in another diagnosis hole like I do with everything else |
IMO replace CORE with STEREOTYPICAL and you'll be correct. These issues are not diagnostic criteria itself, but are parts of larger diagnostic criteria. |
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Abbott
Emu Egg
Joined: May 21, 2012
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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My father was an undiagnosed Aspie, I was very afraid of him as a child then realised as I got older something was terribly wrong with his views of the world and other people. He was murdered when I was 19 in a dispute with other homeless alcoholics he was 'living' with. My son has a very similar personality, and after 5 years of trying to get help for him he finally got a diagnosis of Asperger's, aged 9. I didn't know what it was, but when I started researching, it felt like someone had written books on him. He's doing okay at school, although now he's in year 10 I think he's falling behind as the teachers want to grade him on what he hands in, not just test him on what he's learnt and he doesn't see the point. But he has come a long way in learning about other peoples feelings and perspectives. I feel very sad my father never had that opportunity and his life became what it was - no home, no family who would share his life, no friends.
However, my youngest son who had an early diagnosis of ADHD is now being assessed for Asperger's. It wasn't obvious as his extra energy, fighting etc overshadowed everything else for several years. Now he is almost 13 and we are seeing so many Aspie traits in him, they just weren't glaringly obvious like his older brother. I don't think there are more Aspie's out there, it's just being recognised more readily.
My father was an intelligent man who didn't fit in, so was sent out with the school gardener everyday until he was old enough to leave school, instead of getting an education
My boys are being helped to find ways to get things done on a regular basis, even if it's not perfect. |
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friedmacguffins
Toucan
Joined: Feb 11, 2010
Posts: 265
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | I was diagnosed with outcast: make sure to bully and alienate....at least that is the impression I get. |
Hope you don't mind hearing that I like to look at your picture. |
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Senath
Deinonychus
Joined: May 17, 2012
Posts: 357
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Abbott wrote: | My father was an undiagnosed Aspie, I was very afraid of him as a child then realised as I got older something was terribly wrong with his views of the world and other people. He was murdered when I was 19 in a dispute with other homeless alcoholics he was 'living' with. My son has a very similar personality, and after 5 years of trying to get help for him he finally got a diagnosis of Asperger's, aged 9. I didn't know what it was, but when I started researching, it felt like someone had written books on him. He's doing okay at school, although now he's in year 10 I think he's falling behind as the teachers want to grade him on what he hands in, not just test him on what he's learnt and he doesn't see the point. But he has come a long way in learning about other peoples feelings and perspectives. I feel very sad my father never had that opportunity and his life became what it was - no home, no family who would share his life, no friends.
However, my youngest son who had an early diagnosis of ADHD is now being assessed for Asperger's. It wasn't obvious as his extra energy, fighting etc overshadowed everything else for several years. Now he is almost 13 and we are seeing so many Aspie traits in him, they just weren't glaringly obvious like his older brother. I don't think there are more Aspie's out there, it's just being recognised more readily.
My father was an intelligent man who didn't fit in, so was sent out with the school gardener everyday until he was old enough to leave school, instead of getting an education
My boys are being helped to find ways to get things done on a regular basis, even if it's not perfect. |
Good for you! I'm sad that my parents didn't recognize that something was abnormal with me. If they had I think I would have had an easier time as a child (which usually translates into being better equipped to deal with adult life). |
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legomyego
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Apr 01, 2012
Posts: 176
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 2:18 am Post subject: |
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just noticed OP's original name...was thinking "isn't that heroine"
whats up with that? wanna score? >< |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14869
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Callista wrote: | Adderall or Ritalin don't "take away" your energy though. They're stimulants, as has been mentioned--they give you more energy, if anything. The reason they make you less hyperactive is that they give you more energy up in your head, and you can control yourself better, control your thoughts better. I stim less when I'm on Concerta, because I don't have to move as much to be able to think more clearly. It gives me more control--not less energy. The only time it really makes me "zombie out" is when I take too much of it. That intensifies the problems I have starting movements, and causes me to go pretty much catatonic for a half-hour or so after the dose. Naturally I refuse to take any more than 37 mg extended release, or 10 mg at a time normally, because of that effect. Dosing has to be carefully regulated; otherwise you get undesirable effects. Sometimes doctors don't realize that a higher dose is not necessarily a good thing, and that lowering the dose is an option too.
What does give me less energy is when I'm on any sort of neuroleptic--including Risperdal, which is the only medication approved for autism. That doesn't just make it harder to start movements, like a too-high dose of methylphenidate does. It actually makes it harder to think, to plan. It makes my ADHD traits worse. I probably couldn't have a meltdown on it if I wanted to (which is the point--neuroleptics for autism are usually prescribed for meltdowns)--but I also couldn't get anything done, and would likely be unable to live on my own, because of how difficult that is for me already and how much more impairment I experience on neuroleptics.
For the record, my diagnosis is ADHD-Inattentive, either Asperger's or PDD-NOS depending on which doctor you ask, and recurrent depression. (They're trying to pin Tourette's, PTSD, and narcolepsy on me too, but I know better than that--all those traits are subclinical and not worth diagnosis.) |
Well don't take this as medical advice or knowledge of any kind as it's just personal experience. But I have done adderall more than once, I find it to be a great drug. But being the sometimes self destructive person I am I once did a bit much over the period of 4 days starting with 60mg the first evening kind of lost track of how much I ended up taking in all over that period, considering i was not sleeping either.
So I got to experience the zombied out thing, but that was having too much (because I was being a dumb ass and the people I was with well crap I don't even want to know what they were trying to do to me encouraging me to join in their drug abuse and then when it went overboard they just wanted to dump me once my money was gone. screwed up story I wont bore you all with the detailed version) So anyways if one experiences being zombied out when prescribed adderall that is probably more of an indication you're taking too much for your body not necessarily that adderall is supposed to 'zombie' you out. I can see how it would be helpful and I would certainly not protest if a doctor thought I should be prescribed some, I might protest about taking it every day however...
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Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 30
Posts: 9931
Location: Central USA
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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It does help to take it daily because of how things can snowball if you don't stay organized if you have ADHD. You forget to take the medication, your organization starts getting tattered round the edges; then you start falling behind and in the chaos you probably forget another dose, and that makes it worse gradually but inevitably...
The nice thing about most stimulants used for ADHD is that they are not addictive; your body doesn't really change much in response to the substance's presence. Caffeine is more addictive.
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14869
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Callista wrote: | It does help to take it daily because of how things can snowball if you don't stay organized if you have ADHD. You forget to take the medication, your organization starts getting tattered round the edges; then you start falling behind and in the chaos you probably forget another dose, and that makes it worse gradually but inevitably...
The nice thing about most stimulants used for ADHD is that they are not addictive; your body doesn't really change much in response to the substance's presence. Caffeine is more addictive. |
I don't have ADHD but I can see why for someone who does it would be better to take it more regularly, I mean I imagine its not an extreme dose like 60mg. Also I don't know if I'd say stimulants for ADHD aren't addictive, I mean from my experience I can see how they could be addictive to some people and I find it to have a much stronger effect than caffeine. I mean if I was offered a cup of coffee or adderall I think I'd take the adderall.
Do you mean caffeine is more addictive for people with ADHD? or generally more addictive then the stimulants used in general. My last therapist had ADHD and certainly liked his coffee...though he was also a recovered alcoholic so he might have switched up the alcohol with caffeine. Which I imagine for him is a better choice then drinking alcohol.
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Sora
away away
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 5650
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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I feel confident phrasing it like this: stimulants for ADHD are not causing addiction if used in the doses that are usually prescribed for medical reasons (whereas abusing stimulants can not only lead to addiction but, in the case of at least some stimulants, also to a sudden death) and have been shown to reduce the risk for developing addictions in general (that increased risk that is associated with ADHD) in teens/people with ADHD who are on them.
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Autism + ADHD
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14869
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Sora wrote: | | I feel confident phrasing it like this: stimulants for ADHD are not causing addiction if used in the doses that are usually prescribed for medical reasons (whereas abusing stimulants can not only lead to addiction but, in the case of at least some stimulants, also to a sudden death) and have been shown to reduce the risk for developing addictions in general (that increased risk that is associated with ADHD) in teens/people with ADHD who are on them. |
whether one is abusing a drug, self medicating with it or was prescribed it....does not change the effects of they drug, if it causes physical dependency it can regardless of why you are using it. The assumption that stimulants cannot cause addiction, unless you are abusing them is dangerous in my opinion it can and does. I mean I guess its not just the adderall that would cause the addiction but rather ones genetic predisposition for addiction as well.
But then I guess drug abuse has to be defined as well.....drug abuse to me is failing to use moderation.
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Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 30
Posts: 9931
Location: Central USA
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | I don't have ADHD but I can see why for someone who does it would be better to take it more regularly, I mean I imagine its not an extreme dose like 60mg. Also I don't know if I'd say stimulants for ADHD aren't addictive, I mean from my experience I can see how they could be addictive to some people and I find it to have a much stronger effect than caffeine. I mean if I was offered a cup of coffee or adderall I think I'd take the adderall. |
Like any medication, they can be psychologically addictive: You can feel like you need them, even though you wouldn't go through withdrawal if you stopped taking them. It's the same sort of thing that leads to, for example, a gambling addiction. But they're not physically addictive--which is a good thing for me currently because the government has tangled up my Medicaid paperwork yet again and I can't pay for stimulants. While my schoolwork has suffered rather badly, at least I'm not going through withdrawal symptoms too.
| Quote: | | Do you mean caffeine is more addictive for people with ADHD? or generally more addictive then the stimulants used in general. My last therapist had ADHD and certainly liked his coffee...though he was also a recovered alcoholic so he might have switched up the alcohol with caffeine. Which I imagine for him is a better choice then drinking alcohol. |
Caffeine is physically addictive; drinking it regularly produces a tolerance whether you have ADHD or not. You get used to having it in your system, so that after a while, without it you get withdrawal headaches, tiredness, irritability, that kind of thing. You can drink it on weekdays and not on weekeneds to avoid building up a tolerance. The reason we don't consider caffeine addiction to be a problem like alcohol or nicotine addiction is that drinking coffee in moderation doesn't damage you physically, and that the mild "high" from caffeine doesn't impair your self-control or your ability to work and go about your day quite normally. That, and it's a very easy physical addiction to break: For most people, coming off caffeine involves nothing more than three days of tension headaches that can be treated with acetaminophen.
I'm very fond of coffee--I like it for the caffeine and for the taste. When I take stimulants for ADHD at the proper dose, it feels very much like a proper cup of coffee, only without the physical jitters. Of course, when I'm on prescription stimulants, I have to switch to decaf. Doubling up on stimulants like that just makes you nervous for no good reason.
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