|
marshall
Under the whirlwind
Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Posts: 9202
Location: Western Michigan
|
 Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| ruveyn wrote: | | WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | ruveyn wrote: | | Paid for with money taken by force (or threat of force) from people who did not give a rat's patootie for trees. |
If you don't like it, there are other countries you could choose to live in. Paying your taxes is part of the terms and conditions of being allowed to live and do business in America. Here, we think that those terms are perfectly reasonable. |
In other words, knuckle under or get out. Whatever the mob decrees is the Law.
You are truly a champion of liberty.
ruveyn |
Whatever, without things like cooperation, social responsibility, and compromise, peace and prosperity will not exist. People are bound and/or coerced to cooperate at all levels of society. Government is not the only entity enforcing cooperation. It's just one aspect of a continuum that exists on all scales of society. Even four year olds eventually learn that sharing isn't always optional. I suppose you were the little kid that hoarded all the toys for the entire play period and screamed like a bloody banshee when told you had to share and give others time as well. I see bitching about paying taxes as equally childish. |
|
| Back to top |
|
ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29311
Location: New Jersey
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 7:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| marshall wrote: | | I suppose you were the little kid that hoarded all the toys for the entire play period and screamed like a bloody banshee when told you had to share and give others time as well. I see bitching about paying taxes as equally childish. |
Actually not. I was the little kids who brought his own toys and made it plain My Toys are Mine and Your Toys are Yours.
I have not the right to sequester other people's property and I never believed that I did even when young.
I grew up believing what is Mine is Mine, what is Yours is Yours and what is His is His.
ruveyn |
|
| Back to top |
|
xenon13
Phoenix
![]()
Joined: Dec 14, 2008
Posts: 3074
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 7:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Oldout wrote: | To call taxation theft is an oxymoron. Theft is a legal term for unauthorized acquisition. Taxes are also legally defined by a government.
As much as many like to complain about taxes they are quite necessary in modern society. We should devote more time to discussing how well those taxes are used. |
Taxes are also a prerequisite for money. That's how money was invented, after all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
edgewaters
hibernating
Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 2426
Location: Ontario
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 7:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ruveyn wrote: | | marshall wrote: | | I suppose you were the little kid that hoarded all the toys for the entire play period and screamed like a bloody banshee when told you had to share and give others time as well. I see bitching about paying taxes as equally childish. |
Actually not. I was the little kids who brought his own toys and made it plain My Toys are Mine and Your Toys are Yours.
I have not the right to sequester other people's property and I never believed that I did even when young.
I grew up believing what is Mine is Mine, what is Yours is Yours and what is His is His. |
None of that contradicts marshall's guess, though. The little kid screaming like a banshee when asked to share could believe all these things (and probably does). |
|
| Back to top |
|
ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29311
Location: New Jersey
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| edgewaters wrote: |
None of that contradicts marshall's guess, though. The little kid screaming like a banshee when asked to share could believe all these things (and probably does). |
Asked to share or ordered (and therefor) forced to share? Being forced to share is a kind of oppression and one has a right to complain.
When I was forced to share, I stopped bringing my stuff and sat by myself and refused to participate. You might say I went on Strike, just like the Good Guys in Atlas Shrugged. I learned the Screw You ploy very young. It fitted in with my self centered approach to life. I had no desire to be a Good Little Drone.
What is Mine is Mine, What is Yours is Yours, What is His is His. There is no Ours.
ruveyn |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ruveyn wrote: | | marshall wrote: | | I suppose you were the little kid that hoarded all the toys for the entire play period and screamed like a bloody banshee when told you had to share and give others time as well. I see bitching about paying taxes as equally childish. |
Actually not. I was the little kids who brought his own toys and made it plain My Toys are Mine and Your Toys are Yours.
I have not the right to sequester other people's property and I never believed that I did even when young.
I grew up believing what is Mine is Mine, what is Yours is Yours and what is His is His.
ruveyn |
Ok but paying taxes is not the same thing as someone coming and stealing your money you pay taxes since you are a citizen who has money...once that money is taken, its not 'YOUR' money its the governments money to use for the public. If you were the kid constantly screaming 'mine' and never sharing then I imagine the other kids didn't find you very friendly or pleasant to be around, would we want the tax money in the hand of such a child?
_________________
It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29311
Location: New Jersey
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sweetleaf wrote: |
Ok but paying taxes is not the same thing as someone coming and stealing your money you pay taxes since you are a citizen who has money...once that money is taken, its not 'YOUR' money its the governments money to use for the public. If you were the kid constantly screaming 'mine' and never sharing then I imagine the other kids didn't find you very friendly or pleasant to be around, would we want the tax money in the hand of such a child? |
Sorry toots. I don't get to choose what services I am willing to pay for. I would pay for police and fire and highway services. Not for welfare to the deadbeat bums of the world (corporations included here). The government comes with the guns and I pay. It is armed robbery. But it is legal.
Government is force and often a tyrant. Government is a necessary evil, but rarely a positive good.
ruveyn |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ruveyn wrote: | | WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | ruveyn wrote: | | Paid for with money taken by force (or threat of force) from people who did not give a rat's patootie for trees. |
If you don't like it, there are other countries you could choose to live in. Paying your taxes is part of the terms and conditions of being allowed to live and do business in America. Here, we think that those terms are perfectly reasonable. |
In other words, knuckle under or get out. Whatever the mob decrees is the Law.
You are truly a champion of liberty.
ruveyn |
Have you not advised this before your self?......knuckle under or get out if you don't like it, cause it sounds familiar. I do apologize if I am confusing you from someone but if I remember right I heard the same from you when I was bringing up some issues I have with the government. So if you were the one who made that point why the disagreement with it now?
_________________
It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Burzum
Indeed
Joined: Apr 27, 2011
Posts: 1205
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sweetleaf wrote: |
Ok but paying taxes is not the same thing as someone coming and stealing your money you pay taxes since you are a citizen who has money...once that money is taken, its not 'YOUR' money its the governments money to use for the public. If you were the kid constantly screaming 'mine' and never sharing then I imagine the other kids didn't find you very friendly or pleasant to be around, would we want the tax money in the hand of such a child? |
I don't believe "you don't deserve your hard-earned private property because the collective doesn't like you" to be a very convincing argument. |
|
| Back to top |
|
ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29311
Location: New Jersey
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sweetleaf wrote: |
Have you not advised this before your self?......knuckle under or get out if you don't like it, cause it sounds familiar. I do apologize if I am confusing you from someone but if I remember right I heard the same from you when I was bringing up some issues I have with the government. So if you were the one who made that point why the disagreement with it now? |
I oppose the initiation of force.
What I have written goes like this: If you don't like the country you are in, then leave it. That is not a response to armed force but a way of reconciling a dislike.
The government has the guns. I am unarmed. So I act accordingly. But I do not call it a Good Thing. It isn't.
The need for government is a response to the evil that humans do. If humans were good we would not need government.
ruveyn |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ruveyn wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
Ok but paying taxes is not the same thing as someone coming and stealing your money you pay taxes since you are a citizen who has money...once that money is taken, its not 'YOUR' money its the governments money to use for the public. If you were the kid constantly screaming 'mine' and never sharing then I imagine the other kids didn't find you very friendly or pleasant to be around, would we want the tax money in the hand of such a child? |
Sorry toots. I don't get to choose what services I am willing to pay for. I would pay for police and fire and highway services. Not for welfare to the deadbeat bums of the world (corporations included here). The government comes with the guns and I pay. It is armed robbery. But it is legal.
Government is force and often a tyrant. Government is a necessary evil, but rarely a positive good.
ruveyn |
Well good for you lucky for those who need help from welfare problems, you don't get to choose what the tax money is used for based on your negative assumptions about those in poverty.
Also that is an interesting position to have, its wrong and evil to have taxes as it's stealing.......but you wont do anything about it because 'they have guns'. You do realize the don't shoot you for starting a anti- tax petition or opting to leave this country you are so unhappy with right?
_________________
It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
edgewaters
hibernating
Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 2426
Location: Ontario
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Burzum wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
Ok but paying taxes is not the same thing as someone coming and stealing your money you pay taxes since you are a citizen who has money...once that money is taken, its not 'YOUR' money its the governments money to use for the public. If you were the kid constantly screaming 'mine' and never sharing then I imagine the other kids didn't find you very friendly or pleasant to be around, would we want the tax money in the hand of such a child? |
I don't believe "you don't deserve your hard-earned private property because the collective doesn't like you" to be a very convincing argument. |
Of course not - it's a ludicrous strawman you set up to be ludicrous.
Whether the "collective" (as if society and civilization are somehow akin to the Borg, in some sort of teenage angst fantasy way) likes you or not has nothing to do with whether they decide you should pay taxes, or not. |
|
| Back to top |
|
ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29311
Location: New Jersey
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| edgewaters wrote: |
Whether the "collective" (as if society and civilization are somehow akin to the Borg, in some sort of teenage angst fantasy way) likes you or not has nothing to do with whether they decide you should pay taxes, or not. |
Resistance is futile. Pay your taxes.
ruveyn |
|
| Back to top |
|
Burzum
Indeed
Joined: Apr 27, 2011
Posts: 1205
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| edgewaters wrote: |
Whether the "collective" likes you or not has nothing to do with whether they decide you should pay taxes, or not. |
I never said it does. How did you read that into my post? |
|
| Back to top |
|
edgewaters
hibernating
Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 2426
Location: Ontario
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Burzum wrote: | | edgewaters wrote: |
Whether the "collective" likes you or not has nothing to do with whether they decide you should pay taxes, or not. |
I never said it does. How did you read that into my post? |
To quote: "I don't believe "you don't deserve your hard-earned private property because the collective doesn't like you" to be a very convincing argument." |
|
| Back to top |
|
  |
Wrong Planet Autism Forum Index
-> Politics, Philosophy, and Religion
|
Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Next
|
|
|
|
|
|
