Post 4658703 - (Blaming parents for not having a job)

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Blaming parents for not having a job

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Wrong Planet Autism Forum Index -> Work and finding a Job

Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Phoenix

Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Nephew acting up

questor wrote:

It's simple. Tell your nephew's parents that from now on they need to charge him rent, and he should do his own laundry, make his own bed, clean his own room, make his own meals, and pay his own bills. Also, no watching the family TV, or using the family PC. If he wants to have and use his own TV and PC, they should include a fee for the use of the electricity in his rent. He should also not be allowed to use any family vehicles. Let him buy his own and pay for his own insurance, gas, and maintenance. If he won't pay his own way, and continues being a jerk, they should strip his room down to the carpet/bare floor, and give him a sleeping bag, pillow, lamp, alarm clock (not with a radio), bedroom trash can, a box with his clean clothes in it, and a laundry basket for the dirties. Then they can tell him that when he starts paying rent, and starts acting civil to them, he can have more personal effects.

Sorry to sound so tough, but he sounds like he is spoiling for a fight. If he doesn't stop being a jerk, and keeps looking for a fight, they may have to find a facility that would take him in, or kick him out.

I find it disturbing you would suggest treating a possibly autistic 22 year old this way, come on strip the carpet off his floor take his property away and say 'obey' or you don't get any of your possessions back? Also its kind of hard to pay rent if you can't find a job and finding a job is even harder if your not allowed to use the available transportation...but yeah I'd tell him to take it up with the law if his parents did something like that. I mean kicking him out would be one thing, not something I'd agree with.....but hey at least its reasonable somewhat. But trying to control a 22 year old adult that way disabled or not is a terrible idea but a great way to build more resentment.
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wafflesmom
Butterfly

Joined: Mar 05, 2012
Posts: 14

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 7:21 pm Post subject:

Hey guys, I appreciate all the advice and the critiques. I do understand that you all are just getting my side of the story, and I would love for him to tell you his side, except, HE IS INSULTED IF YOU MENTION HIS I NAME AND ASPERGER'S IN THE SAME SENTENCE!!!! I have done a little bit of reading on AS, and my intention is not to insult anyone, including my nephew, but if anyone is familiar with Dr Tony Attwood and his definition of the ""god mode" Aspies can go into, it is an INAPPROPRIATE, compensatory, mechanism. It is arrogance, perfectionism, and an intolerance of others. And when it comes to anger, unfortunately some males with AS have an authoritarian outlook on life with a rigid hierarchy where males are dominant over females. Thus girls or Mothers may be targeted when the person feels angry. This is my nephew, point blank. After his meltdowns, he can be sweet as pie. It is a very difficult thing for an NT to deal with on a constant basis. So no matter how much I am being told He is not being listened to, or that he may be right in his anger, I know better. We love him more than you could ever know, that is why I am here trying to find different perspectives on how to deal with his anger. Bottom line, he is not right when he does this to his Mother, no matter what anyone says.

edgewaters
hibernating
Phoenix

Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 2426
Location: Ontario

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 7:33 pm Post subject:

I think the neutral third party suggestion is the way to go. If you need leverage to get him to agree to this, I suppose you could always demand he has to be responsible for all his own costs (rent, food etc) unless he's willing to negotiate via mediation. It isn't unreasonable to bring him to the table but I wouldn't use leverage for anything else.

cubedemon6073
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Nov 08, 2008
Age: 34
Posts: 1622

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 8:04 pm Post subject:

wafflesmom wrote:

Hey guys, I appreciate all the advice and the critiques. I do understand that you all are just getting my side of the story, and I would love for him to tell you his side, except, HE IS INSULTED IF YOU MENTION HIS I NAME AND ASPERGER'S IN THE SAME SENTENCE!!!! I have done a little bit of reading on AS, and my intention is not to insult anyone, including my nephew, but if anyone is familiar with Dr Tony Attwood and his definition of the ""god mode" Aspies can go into, it is an INAPPROPRIATE, compensatory, mechanism. It is arrogance, perfectionism, and an intolerance of others. And when it comes to anger, unfortunately some males with AS have an authoritarian outlook on life with a rigid hierarchy where males are dominant over females. Thus girls or Mothers may be targeted when the person feels angry. This is my nephew, point blank. After his meltdowns, he can be sweet as pie. It is a very difficult thing for an NT to deal with on a constant basis. So no matter how much I am being told He is not being listened to, or that he may be right in his anger, I know better. We love him more than you could ever know, that is why I am here trying to find different perspectives on how to deal with his anger. Bottom line, he is not right when he does this to his Mother, no matter what anyone says.

Well please try to get him to come on anyway and read what I have at least said. I wouldn't even talk about aspergers with him if he doesn't feel comfortable about it. I do believe if he came on here and talked with the members here he would come to accept it more. He is denying a part of who he is and that's dangerous territory. He has to understand that.

LookTwice
Pileated woodpecker

Joined: Oct 31, 2011
Posts: 188

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:02 pm Post subject:

wafflesmom wrote:

I'd be upset too if someone repeatedly tried to stick a label on me that I don't agree with. I'd get very hostile if people would gang up on me in an attempt to be more convincing (it's two of you versus one of him). I may be wrong about this, I simply don't know enough about the situation (hence the suggestion of a mediator who can hear both sides - this would have to be face to face, by the way, not via internet), but I have been in a similar situation and felt like the two people who were supposed to support me in a time of crisis, when I was completely overwhelmed, not only failed to do so, but they actively made things worse by putting even more pressure on me. It felt like they were trampling on me while I was already helpless on the ground. I remember having angry outbursts too, but they were just a result of them cornering me. I still don't understand how they could've not realized that.

"A little reading" doesn't qualify you to diagnose someone. In fact, what a little reading will do is prime your brain to look for confirmation. You will ask yourself "could it be that he has Asperger's?". And the answer to questions like those is always yes, because that's how the human brain works (you can look up studies in the area of cognitive bias, decision making etc. if you don't believe it). It is a similar effect to reading about symptoms for diseases; suddenly you start to think "wait, don't I have quite a few of those?".
So you read how "males with AS have an authoritarian outlook on life" and bam..there's the explanation you were looking for. And another confirmation of the Asperger theory, conveniently. Except you don't really know, it's mere conjecture. You say "you know better", but I wouldn't be so sure you do.

questor wrote:

It's simple.

It almost never is. Of course people like to make it simple (less of a hassle for them, doesn't require them to think or have the discomfort of confusion over uncertainty and ambiguity).

wafflesmom
Butterfly

Joined: Mar 05, 2012
Posts: 14

Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 3:32 pm Post subject:

Sorry guys, I don't know how to do the "quotes" thing! I"m really not computer savvy by a long-shot!!!! I would like to ask Cubedemon6073 what he means when he says that my nephew denying the Asperger's could be dangerous territory? I agree with you, I just want to know what your definition of that is. And for Looktwice, I understand that you come from a different perspective than I, but I assure you, I didn't grab the term Asperger's Syndrome out of the clear blue. Two different therapists suggested that it is what my nephew has, but he also has anosognosia, so we have had to leave it alone and try to find a way to deal with it to better help his Mom, my sister. In the 2 years that have gone by since this was suggested, we have mentioned it to him two more times, and he dismissed it completely. We no longer mention it. So I take issue with your suggestion that we are ganging up on him trying to shove this label down his throat. Also, your suggestion that my "little reading" does not qualify me to make a diagnosis is utterly laughable. If you want to call it a diagnosis, so be it, what I call it is a door that was opened to my family that made things that been happening with my nephew AND his Father, make COMPLETE SENSE to us!!! We literally thought both of them had any number of mental disorders and when Aspergers came along my sister and I REJOICED in the fact that her husband and son were not nuts!!! So yes, she and I have embraced it as what they have. Have we then diagnosed them? As I have said, call it what you will, we call it, "OH, THAT"S WHY HE DOES THAT"!!! I do agree that mediation from an outsider is definitely needed and we are working on that now! Thank you to everyone with your feedback! I really do appreciate it! Please keep them coming!

wafflesmom
Butterfly

Joined: Mar 05, 2012
Posts: 14

Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 3:35 pm Post subject:

Thank you so much for your input. I am using it to try and step into my nephews shoes somewhat.

wafflesmom
Butterfly

Joined: Mar 05, 2012
Posts: 14

Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject:

My last post was for Sweetleaf!! I have got to learn how to do this correctly!!! LOL!

Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Phoenix

Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject:

wafflesmom wrote:

Sorry guys, I don't know how to do the "quotes" thing! I"m really not computer savvy by a long-shot!!!! I would like to ask Cubedemon6073 what he means when he says that my nephew denying the Asperger's could be dangerous territory? I agree with you, I just want to know what your definition of that is. And for Looktwice, I understand that you come from a different perspective than I, but I assure you, I didn't grab the term Asperger's Syndrome out of the clear blue. Two different therapists suggested that it is what my nephew has, but he also has anosognosia, so we have had to leave it alone and try to find a way to deal with it to better help his Mom, my sister. In the 2 years that have gone by since this was suggested, we have mentioned it to him two more times, and he dismissed it completely. We no longer mention it. So I take issue with your suggestion that we are ganging up on him trying to shove this label down his throat. Also, your suggestion that my "little reading" does not qualify me to make a diagnosis is utterly laughable. If you want to call it a diagnosis, so be it, what I call it is a door that was opened to my family that made things that been happening with my nephew AND his Father, make COMPLETE SENSE to us!!! We literally thought both of them had any number of mental disorders and when Aspergers came along my sister and I REJOICED in the fact that her husband and son were not nuts!!! So yes, she and I have embraced it as what they have. Have we then diagnosed them? As I have said, call it what you will, we call it, "OH, THAT"S WHY HE DOES THAT"!!! I do agree that mediation from an outsider is definitely needed and we are working on that now! Thank you to everyone with your feedback! I really do appreciate it! Please keep them coming!

What do you mean finding out they could have had aspergers made you you rejoice because they were not nuts? just confusing to me, considering how I've typically heard that term used. Anyways, I think the getting mediation from an outsider is a good idea.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream.

wafflesmom
Butterfly

Joined: Mar 05, 2012
Posts: 14

Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 3:53 pm Post subject:

I understand that it could be quite insulting to use the term "nuts" in regards to this situation, especially if you are an aspie, but in no way did I mean it in that way!! It is a "term of endearment" my sister and I have used throughout the years to describe her son and husband just to get us past the rituals they go into! Such as her son, a grown man, coming out of the bathroom, BUTT NAKED everyday to dry off! He simply walks out of the bathroom with nothing on or a towel and they all have to just look away! LOL! Or her husband that takes 3 hour baths TWICE A DAY WITH ONE BATHROOM IN THE APARTMENT!!! This is just the tip of the iceberg about the rituals, I have loads of them! And to the two NT's, myself and my sister, dealing with this, I will not lie to you, there were plenty of times before the term asperger's was introduced that we totally thought. THEY ARE NUTS!! Once again, not meaning to insult anyone!!!

cubedemon6073
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Nov 08, 2008
Age: 34
Posts: 1622

Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 12:11 am Post subject:

wafflesmom wrote:

More than likely you all are correct that he does have aspergers. Let's say he does. His aspergers is a part of his identity. He is denying a part of himself. This is a coping mechanism that he is using and is very dangerous. When I was first diagnoised with aspergers it was difficult for me to accept. It's difficult to accept that there is hardly anyone like you on the face of the planet. For a number of years I thought I was normal. I've been through the different stages. http://grief.com/the-five-stages-of-grief/

For a while, I almost broke with reality myself.

wafflesmom
Butterfly

Joined: Mar 05, 2012
Posts: 14

Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 2:58 pm Post subject:

Thanks so much Cubedemon6073. Your name makes me quite curious! Not asking, just that it says so little yet so much! Lol! As I said, I too think that his denial is not good, but unless someone else comes along to convince him, he is truly one of those that will not except Aspergers. My sister is so overwhelmed by it all, and getting her to go to a support group right now is like pulling her teeth!! She feels like her husband and son should go, but that's never gonna happen! So I have been making a little headway on getting her to go. We live in different states and I am planning on going to some groups in my state. Our main focus right now is learning to deal with my nephews meltdowns. Though I talk to him over the phone and I try to stay calm, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes I lose my cool. He is VERY GOOD with computers and my sister got him an interview with an IT firm, but the night before the interview he started to harass her about the clothes he had to wear, etc... and basically SHE EXPLODED ON HIM!!! Funny thing is, it shut him down and he left her alone!! LOL! That's what we are trying NOT to do because we do not know where it could lead. My sister and I both are not going to let her 24 year old son run the show, but we do understand that he has this different way of thinking and we have to learn to adjust! It is just SO HARD TO DO when you have this person telling you that he is SUPERIOR to anyone else, and he is incredibly smart, yet he does not know when to come in out of the rain!! Literally!! Although we are sure her husband has it as well, we are more-so concentrating on her son. Just hoping to find a way to help him navigate through this crazy, crazy world!

wafflesmom
Butterfly

Joined: Mar 05, 2012
Posts: 14

Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:14 pm Post subject:

Hey Cubedemon, how did you learn to accept it?

cubedemon6073
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Nov 08, 2008
Age: 34
Posts: 1622

Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:11 am Post subject:

Quote:

Thanks so much Cubedemon6073. Your name makes me quite curious! Not asking, just that it says so little yet so much! Lol! As I said, I too think that his denial is not good, but unless someone else comes along to convince him, he is truly one of those that will not except Aspergers. My sister is so overwhelmed by it all, and getting her to go to a support group right now is like pulling her teeth!! She feels like her husband and son should go, but that's never gonna happen! So I have been making a little headway on getting her to go. We live in different states and I am planning on going to some groups in my state. Our main focus right now is learning to deal with my nephews meltdowns. Though I talk to him over the phone and I try to stay calm, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes I lose my cool. He is VERY GOOD with computers and my sister got him an interview with an IT firm, but the night before the interview he started to harass her about the clothes he had to wear, etc... and basically SHE EXPLODED ON HIM!!! Funny thing is, it shut him down and he left her alone!! LOL! That's what we are trying NOT to do because we do not know where it could lead. My sister and I both are not going to let her 24 year old son run the show, but we do understand that he has this different way of thinking and we have to learn to adjust! It is just SO HARD TO DO when you have this person telling you that he is SUPERIOR to anyone else, and he is incredibly smart, yet he does not know when to come in out of the rain!! Literally!! Although we are sure her husband has it as well, we are more-so concentrating on her son. Just hoping to find a way to help him navigate through this crazy, crazy world!

I have been told that I'm a man of many contradictions. Second, I got a job in IT a few years and guess what I still do not have a job with IT. I can't get a job in this field. This is because the jobs have shipped off to India and the jobs that are here require him to have multi-skills and each skill requries years of experience. How does he do this? I have tried to get an IT job and then any job. After that, I finally had to claim and on go social security disability. I still do not understand really how the workplace works or society works. You're not going to like what I am going to say but the truth is what I do know is this. The employers have a certain personality that they want. Your son will not fit this personality whatsoever. My opinion is he needs to claim disability now.

How did I learn to accept it? I will tell you. The inordinate desire for truth and the betterment of my soul defines who and what I am. It is what the great philosopher Socrates wanted. Fredrich Nitezsche said "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. " You see I don't buy certain things that the American people should buy. I refuse to sacrifice a child to the hellish, dark, and dirty closet in Omelas. http://harelbarzilai.org/words/omelas.txt You really want to know who and what I am and how I learned to accept it. I realized that I am person who desires more than just a job, money, wealth, power or success. For the price of being true to who I am and staying true to my principles I believe that it is my duty that was granted to me and if America is to become better I have to challenge people's beliefs and standards. I have been appointed just like Socrates was appointed to challenge the Social Veener of America itself. This is how I learned to accept who I am. I believe that since having a positive attitude always works in reality then I believe I will negate the phrase "Life is unfair." I will move this mountain.

I would tell him to go ahead and claim disability. As the workplace currently stands he will more than likely fail especially in IT. I'm talking from personal experience. Voc rehab is a joke. I've already tried them. They will give you the run around. After he claims disability and is able to get on it then he needs to use the knowledge and skills to challenge people's beliefs and what they hold dear. If he is going to get the help he needs and this includes a lot of us as well he will have to challenge people's values and standards. He has every right to be himself and no one can take that away from him. I will fight those who try to make me into something I am not. I will fight them to my last dying breath.

wafflesmom
Butterfly

Joined: Mar 05, 2012
Posts: 14

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject:

Ok Cubedemon, that went just a bit over my head!!! I absolutely appreciate you taking the time to let me into your world somewhat though!! As for my nephew getting on disability, I would guess that when the day comes and he decides to accept the Asperger's, and then goes to get an official diagnosis, we could explore that if all else has failed! He had his first day of work yesterday and although he said it went fine, 10 minutes after getting home he went to his Mom and once again berated her, not loudly, on ruining his life for making him go to college. He told her if not for that he would be established and living his life but now it's too late! Never once does he ever approach his Dad with this nonsense! Anyway, 10 minutes after that, he was apologizing to her. It is all very hard to figure out., but I SHALL NOT give up on my pursuit to learn how to deal with him as he is having these moments!!! We want him to be able to express himself, but the whole blaming thing is getting REALLY TIRED REALLY FAST!!! Having Asperger's does not allow you to be cruel just for the hell of it in my book!

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