Joined: Feb 01, 2012 Posts: 1364 Location: Planet Earth
Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 4:51 pm Post subject: Sharia4Holland/Sharia4Belgium
I had to share this.
I just watched this video. It's an outrage that these people have more rights than any of us. It's an outrage we pay taxes to keep these people healthy and housed. They stand there, at a monument to freedom and remembrance of war victims, preaching their disgusting ideology. They're saying we're decadent, we have prostitution, everyone is addicted to gambling and drinking and only islamic law can fix that. They say muslims should take over Europe and introduce islamic law wherever they can, abolishing democracy.
A man who argues against them, clearly outraged by their death threats to Geert Wilders, is dragged off by undercover police for almost touching one of them while they preach in favour of a death sentence for those who disagree with them, mentioning the murder of a man who 'insulted Muhammed' as a good thing. Clearly, they have the right to stand next to a monument to freedom and preach their ideology, but counter protests are not allowed.
Here's another painful detail. One of the things Geert Wilders is often ridiculed or hated for is calling islam an ideology. However, the guy who starts speaking English at 4:20 starts by saying it is, in fact, an ideology before saying it's also a religion. It's painful to see that many of these people live here because our government allows them to. They don't contribute anything but hate-filled speeches to society. They're treated like princes, and they're protected from a man who points fingers by police even though one of them would have to serve several years in jail for drug trafficking if he went back to his native Morocco.
In the background, a European Union flag waves proudly.
Oh look, here comes Hyperlexian to lock the thread and spank you for daring to be a European saying that an experiment with unlimited immigration has failed disastrously in your own country.
Isn't it great being lectured to by a holier than thou Canadian that has never even visited your country?
Isn't it great being bullied by someone whose country has a positively xenophobic immigration policy by comparison?
Better just shut up and watch your country and culture be destroyed, after all, if you don't you might upset a Canadian.
Joined: Feb 01, 2012 Posts: 1364 Location: Planet Earth
Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject:
Indeed - it's usually North Americans who tell me I'm overreacting and that immigration worked fine for them. They received mainly Europeans and Asians until now, groups we'd love to have as immigrants here, and their immigration policies are much, much stricter. Visiting the United States or Canada as a tourist from this country would require more paperwork and weeks of preparation, sometimes including a background research by immigration agencies, while moving here from Morocco is simple - tell them you're visiting a family member, land at Schiphol airport and apply for citizenship.
Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Sharia4Holland/Sharia4Belgium
HisDivineMajesty wrote:
A man who argues against them, clearly outraged by their death threats to Geert Wilders, is dragged off by undercover police for almost touching one of them while they preach in favour of a death sentence for those who disagree with them, mentioning the murder of a man who 'insulted Muhammed' as a good thing. Clearly, they have the right to stand next to a monument to freedom and preach their ideology, but counter protests are not allowed.
Come on! I watched the video, and the people were right to drag him away. He looked like he was about to start a fight. Why do you assume that the people who dragged him away are undercover police? Many average citizens would have done the same thing. I assumed that they were his friends, and that they knew that he was likely to get violent about this issue.
I don't speak any Dutch, so I am happy to assume that the Muslim man is saying terrible things. But this video does not show a double standard, either on the part of the police or on the part of the public.
EDIT: Sorry, I watched it again, and it actually is pretty clear that they are undercover police. I think that one of them muttered what sounded like it might be the Dutch word for "police". But still, I don't see any double standard in the video. The guy was acting physically threatening, and so the situation was neutralised.
Joined: Feb 01, 2012 Posts: 1364 Location: Planet Earth
Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 5:53 pm Post subject:
He was very angry, and I wonder why a lynch mob hadn't formed by that point. He was unfairly mild in just appearing physically threatening instead of flat-out attacking them. Usually, when undercover police - and indeed, they shouted 'politie' and dragged him to a point with more police officers using professional moves - do this, they'll remove the person from the area or take him to the station, hold him there for a moment and fine him, or start a trial.
These people, though, were issuing death threats, inciting hatred and glorifying the murder of a critic. Two of those are crimes worth jail time in some cases. The policemen did absolutely nothing about that, which is probably why the guy walked up to them. These things are crimes, and police is usually legally obliged to approach and arrest those they suspect of these crimes. In that respect, the guy was dragged away for responding to people committing crimes with policemen standing idly by. The man did not commit a crime, but appeared threatening; the people reading up their statements and the policemen were committing crimes.
Joined: Jun 20, 2008 Age: 24 Posts: 12091 Location: La belle province
Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 5:57 pm Post subject:
DC wrote:
Oh look, here comes Hyperlexian to lock the thread and spank you for daring to be a European saying that an experiment with unlimited immigration has failed disastrously in your own country.
Isn't it great being lectured to by a holier than thou Canadian that has never even visited your country?
Isn't it great being bullied by someone whose country has a positively xenophobic immigration policy by comparison?
Better just shut up and watch your country and culture be destroyed, after all, if you don't you might upset a Canadian.
Want a little cheese with that whine _________________ Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
Joined: Jun 20, 2008 Age: 24 Posts: 12091 Location: La belle province
Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject:
As to OP: Sharia is an abomination. Islam is a problematic religion, which is putting it mildly _________________ Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
These people, though, were issuing death threats, inciting hatred and glorifying the murder of a critic.
Could you translate some specific sentences in the video that you would describe in this way? Obviously I have no idea what is or is not illegal speech under Dutch law, but it would provide some context. For example, I know that sometimes groups like this will say weaselly things like "We issue a warning to those who insult Islam!" But is that a death threat?
Joined: Jun 20, 2008 Age: 24 Posts: 12091 Location: La belle province
Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 6:52 pm Post subject:
I haven't seen enough to say anything definite on that guy being dragged away, but I want to know how you know they are undercover cops? It looked like friends restraining him. It looked like those imams or missionaries were more physical than he was imo. Maybe they were familiar with each other _________________ Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
Joined: Jun 20, 2008 Age: 24 Posts: 12091 Location: La belle province
Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 7:08 pm Post subject:
DC wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Want a little cheese with that whine
Oooo! Yes please!
Also, can I borrow your whetstone, my axe is getting blunt.
Good stuff, and happy to oblige _________________ Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 26039 Location: Lancashire, UK
Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 7:10 pm Post subject:
DC wrote:
Oh look, here comes Hyperlexian to lock the thread and spank you for daring to be a European saying that an experiment with unlimited immigration has failed disastrously in your own country.
Isn't it great being lectured to by a holier than thou Canadian that has never even visited your country?
Isn't it great being bullied by someone whose country has a positively xenophobic immigration policy by comparison?
Better just shut up and watch your country and culture be destroyed, after all, if you don't you might upset a Canadian.
Absolutely, positively, 100% spot on.
And yes, to echo the sentiments - that video is a total and utter outrage. These are the sorts of people we allow into our countries. Something has to give.
Stop mass immigration, especially from poor Muslim countries. In fact, I'd favour ending all immigration from Muslim countries.
Joined: Feb 01, 2012 Posts: 1364 Location: Planet Earth
Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 7:18 pm Post subject:
Vigilans wrote:
I haven't seen enough to say anything definite on that guy being dragged away, but I want to know how you know they are undercover cops? It looked like friends restraining him. It looked like those imams or missionaries were more physical than he was imo. Maybe they were familiar with each other
They were undercover cops according to a news article that accompanied it. Indeed, the police uses undercover cops very often. Had they been his friends, or random strangers, the policemen he was dragged to within seconds would have had to free him.
Declension wrote:
Could you translate some specific sentences in the video that you would describe in this way? Obviously I have no idea what is or is not illegal speech under Dutch law, but it would provide some context. For example, I know that sometimes groups like this will say weaselly things like "We issue a warning to those who insult Islam!" But is that a death threat?
I'll translate some of them.
~1:49 - "Muslims will completely eradicate the tumor of man-made laws called democracy."
~2:07 - "Sharia is the only means left to bring down democracy."
~2:27- "We'll replace it with a harmonious, divine society, much like the laws that applied to Europe for 1300 years as we've seen in Spain, parts of Switzerland and parts of Austria".
~3:12 - "The Dutch know all too well the power of muslims and their divine laws."
~4:00 - "For those who have made it their task to insult Allah [prayer] and Muhammad [prayer], like that Roman dog Geert Wilders, and [Arabic] comes to power, we'll deal with them as we've dealt with them in the past. So learn from your mistakes, like Theo van Gogh [the one who was assassinated]."
Then the guy in English says, after the interruption: "We're just trying to have a peaceful conversation!"
Joined: Jun 20, 2008 Age: 24 Posts: 12091 Location: La belle province
Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 7:21 pm Post subject:
HisDivineMajesty wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
I haven't seen enough to say anything definite on that guy being dragged away, but I want to know how you know they are undercover cops? It looked like friends restraining him. It looked like those imams or missionaries were more physical than he was imo. Maybe they were familiar with each other
They were undercover cops according to a news article that accompanied it. Indeed, the police uses undercover cops very often. Had they been his friends, or random strangers, the policemen he was dragged to within seconds would have had to free him.
Indeed, this is true here as well _________________ Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
Joined: Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 3142 Location: Sassenach in Scotland
Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 7:32 pm Post subject:
Tequila wrote:
Stop mass immigration, especially from poor Muslim countries. In fact, I'd favour ending all immigration from Muslim countries.
I wouldn't. I'd favour selective admittance (merely hypothetical, as it would be impossible to implement in practical terms) to grant asylum to the poor terrorised, repressed, tortured ones who actually want to leave that sort of regime and ideology, not the ones who want to come over here and impose it on us. There are many so-called "apostates" who have attempted to leave Islam and face the death penalty in their own countries merely for daring to question the teachings of their leaders or the Koran. But, of course, the reason you couldn't possibly implement such a selective system is that it would be impossible to determine who was allowed in and who wasn't. Whose sob story was genuine, and whose was fake. etc. _________________ "Those that wish to be clean, clean they will be; and those that wish to be foul, foul they will be."
