MomofThree1975
Deinonychus
Joined: Mar 14, 2012
Posts: 367
Location: NYC
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 Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the edit, much appreciated.
Yesterday, we had a few family members over at our house and I left DH outside to watch the one gate that we left without a padlock. Well, one of the kids went to get a ball and didn't fully lock the gate. My son was able to unlock the gate and got about 10 feet until I saw him. When I called to him, he ran faster! All the while, he was laughter and saying "I'm running". We got him back inside but I realize that he think it's some type of gate. I gave him the talk about going out of the yard without mommy and daddy being dangerous.
Then, this morning, the gates are back to being chained but he doesn't know this. I went into the kitchen and he immediately got up from what he was doing and ran out the door to the porch. When he say that I was right behind him, he ran back in, laughing. So, I am not sure how I managed to teach him that this was a game. I am wondering if I could figure what I did to teach him that it's a game, and instead, teach him that it's dangerous.
He does seem to know that I don't want him to run away. Does poor impulse control also mean that you know you are not supposed to do something, but you still do it? I do feel like it is an improvement since he does know that I don't want him to run. |
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BuyerBeware
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 29, 2011
Age: 35
Posts: 1038
Location: PA, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Sympathy. That's a scary problem to confront, on a lot of levels.
Yeah, that can be poor impulse control. Which, oh dear, all three-year-olds have-- so a three-year-old with poor impulse control relative to other three-year-olds is a challenge within a challenge.
It can also be outright defiance. This seems to be the case with my little girl (just turned three). She enjoys being vexatious. I don't know if it's a power trip or a "look-what-I-can-do" thing or what, but it's obvious that she revels in it-- and if I can read that in her nonverbals, it must be pretty clear.
That is, in effect, the same thing as making a game out of it. I don't know your child (and you do) but for her, whatever the reason, it's a very enjoyable game. I think that's just her temperament. She is that way with all people and many things.
Wish I had something to offer you other than the assurance that it (hopefully) won't last forever. Unfortunately, I'm trying the "mice-on-the-ice approach" with my daughter right now (and she has no delays or difficulties that I know of-- just one hell of a temper). That is to say, I'm going at it from every direction I can think of-- from calm and rational (if simple) explanation to a good "You scared the HELL out of me!!!!" spanking-- in the hopes that I'll see SOMETHING work (and be able to identify what it was).
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I'm tired. I do not have sufficient strength remaining to persevere in the face of adversity. I accept myself as broken and conformity/compliance as the only acceptable existence. I give up.
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Washi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 26, 2010
Posts: 721
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt you ever did anything to make him think it was a game other than he knows it's a good way to get attention. Sometimes my son gives me an ornery smile and does exaggerated tip-toeing now when he's tempted to run off, it's like he's testing me to see if I'm paying attention. I imagine the temptation to explore is a big part of it too, I didn't bolt like my son does when I was little, but I did wander because I loved to explore and didn't have much of an attention span for keeping track of where my parents were. I also loved hiding in small places (thankfully my son doesn't do this yet), something about being hidden away made me feel secure, I never wandered off on purpose.
Last edited by Washi on Sun May 27, 2012 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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League_Girl
Proud mamma
Joined: Feb 05, 2010
Posts: 13503
Location: My house
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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I used to run out in the street all the time and couldn't seem to grasp the concept of getting hit by a car. Then one day we were in the car and a bug hit our windchill. Mom pointed to it and told me that is what happens if I get hit by a car, I will get squashed like that bug. My eyes got wide and I never ran out in the street again.
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Titanic is a good diaper movie, lots of flooding |
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MMJMOM
Phoenix
Joined: May 22, 2011
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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my typical DD will laugh when she gets too far and I have to run for her. What I started to do was STOP running to her, yet go the other way and tell her, "Bye Bye Miranda, I am going home!" She is able to understand this and will stop and come to me. Otherwise if I run towards her she laughs and keeps going. I dont know if your son would understand that, but maybe give it a try? Of course when he is safely behind locked gates. I would NEVEr do that in the street...
It can be VERY scarey when your child bolts and heads towards the street. Maybe try a STOP sign on a popsicle stick, work on having hiim STOP in the house simple things first, like "jump, jump, jump...STOP" and eventually when he can STOP on command when he sees the sign and hears STOP, take it outdoors, to the backyard...
I hope that he gets it soon, till then I am sure you will be on guard and a nervous wreck.
_________________
Dara, mom to my beautiful kids:
Jayden 7, diagnosed Aspergers and ADHD possible learning disability due to porcessing speed, born with a cleft lip and palate.
Miranda 4
Maya, who would be 5, my forever angel baby
Ethan, new to the world! |
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DW_a_mom
Ignoring the To-Do List
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 9301
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| MomofThree1975 wrote: |
Yesterday, we had a few family members over at our house and I left DH outside to watch the one gate that we left without a padlock. Well, one of the kids went to get a ball and didn't fully lock the gate. My son was able to unlock the gate and got about 10 feet until I saw him. When I called to him, he ran faster! All the while, he was laughter and saying "I'm running". We got him back inside but I realize that he think it's some type of gate. I gave him the talk about going out of the yard without mommy and daddy being dangerous.
Then, this morning, the gates are back to being chained but he doesn't know this. I went into the kitchen and he immediately got up from what he was doing and ran out the door to the porch. When he say that I was right behind him, he ran back in, laughing. So, I am not sure how I managed to teach him that this was a game. I am wondering if I could figure what I did to teach him that it's a game, and instead, teach him that it's dangerous.
He does seem to know that I don't want him to run away. Does poor impulse control also mean that you know you are not supposed to do something, but you still do it? I do feel like it is an improvement since he does know that I don't want him to run. |
I remember my son being three, me being pregnant, and him running away from me up a hill at a park. He'd never been out of my sight, but due to my pregnancy he was faster than me. He definitely thought it was funny, even though I had been trying for ages to teach him not to do that. Once I had him, we left the park, I lectured the full way home, and he had a half hour time out because, as I explained to him, he needed to learn NOW, before the baby came, how serious this issue was to me, regardless of if he agreed, understood why, or anything: it was my TOP priority.
Given that I rarely act like that, he finally got the message.
_________________
Mom to an amazing AS boy (plus a non-AS daughter). Have at least a few AS genes myself, although probably more NT than AS.
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Think of the greening of my name as an emeritus thing; I used to be a moderator but am retired and have no authority to act |
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Wreck-Gar
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 20, 2011
Posts: 941
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| MMJMOM wrote: | | my typical DD will laugh when she gets too far and I have to run for her. What I started to do was STOP running to her, yet go the other way and tell her, "Bye Bye Miranda, I am going home!" She is able to understand this and will stop and come to me. Otherwise if I run towards her she laughs and keeps going. I dont know if your son would understand that, but maybe give it a try? Of course when he is safely behind locked gates. I would NEVEr do that in the street... |
My son (age 4, classic autism diagnosis) doesn't run into the street but sometimes when we are out (park, stores) he'll run off and not want to come with us. So we do exactly what you say, just say "bye-bye" and pretend to be walking away from him. This usually does the trick with him. |
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Washi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 26, 2010
Posts: 721
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Wreck-Gar wrote: | | MMJMOM wrote: | | my typical DD will laugh when she gets too far and I have to run for her. What I started to do was STOP running to her, yet go the other way and tell her, "Bye Bye Miranda, I am going home!" She is able to understand this and will stop and come to me. Otherwise if I run towards her she laughs and keeps going. I dont know if your son would understand that, but maybe give it a try? Of course when he is safely behind locked gates. I would NEVEr do that in the street... |
My son (age 4, classic autism diagnosis) doesn't run into the street but sometimes when we are out (park, stores) he'll run off and not want to come with us. So we do exactly what you say, just say "bye-bye" and pretend to be walking away from him. This usually does the trick with him. |
We frequently try that but my son always just stands there and smiles from ear to ear. |
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momsparky
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 27, 2010
Posts: 2737
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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It's been so many years, I barely remember this. DS was never a worry in our house, he wouldn't even consider going out the door on his own, but had very poor impulse control when it came to the street (I'd just hover.) We and his preschool also often had trouble getting him to leave the park - and we only tried the "bye" thing once when he was little - he promptly ran in the opposite direction.
Somewhere in there, he developed severe separation anxiety and the bolting went away, but we had severe school refusal, too.
I wonder if some of what looks like defiance and impulse control (there's no denying that those may be a factor) might be an inability to understand the subtleties about the rules of freedom: it's not "never go out the door" because even children go out the door all the time under very specific circumstances. Maybe a social story on the specific steps of going outside, or going somewhere less childproofed would help if that's the case? |
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Dylanjohnson
Emu Egg
Joined: May 23, 2012
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| if she wants to go out, you can out with her for thirty minutes. |
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Aspie1
Overman
Joined: Mar 08, 2005
Posts: 3704
Location: United States
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:34 am Post subject: |
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While I understand I'll catch quite a bit of heat for saying this, but I can't help but slightly admire that 3-year-old. He somehow remembered the street layout from having walked around the neighborhood before, maybe saw a landmark of some sort he wanted to see again, made a decision to go see it again, and followed through on it. I was nowhere near this decisive when I was 3; I was too scared. Although I'm wondering at this point what I was more scared of: actually getting hit by a car or getting punished by my parents. I remember them yelling at me when I did something "dangerous" (in their minds): "Do you realize how dangerous that was!? You could have been killed!" And all I could think at the time was: "If I was actually killed, I wouldn't have to listen to you yelling at me". In my mind, the real "danger" was artificially created by my parents through yelling at and punishing, not a naturally existing danger of cars and trucks.
Again, I understand the notion of caring for your child's safety, but it's sad how little control kids are given over their lives in the modern society. They want to do more with their lives, but can't. Just a few centuries ago, 3-year-olds would be already practicing for doing real work by doing small, simple tasks, such as dumping corn kernels into the henhouse. By age 8, they'd be doing full-fledged jobs: miking the cows, washing the horses, caring for the elderly, repainting the walls in a local church, sweeping the sidewalks, etc. It may have been physically tiring, but it lets kids practice for the freedom of adulthood. And if the job was not right next door, the child would have to walk down the village street on his/her own, and no one panicked. Sadly, soulless factory owners caught wind of this around the Industrial Revolution, and child labor began. Laws had to be enacted to prevent this. I, as a kid, would have loved to have a real job, rather than just doing chores at home, which I viewed as essentially make-work (created just to have work to be done with no tangible rewards).
Sadly, creating a controlled environment for a child to wander off it is virtually impossible in today's society. As the nearest-best solution, might as well go with what's already been said, and strictly enforce the hand-holding rule or something. |
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MMJMOM
Phoenix
Joined: May 22, 2011
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Aspie1 wrote: | While I understand I'll catch quite a bit of heat for saying this, but I can't help but slightly admire that 3-year-old. He somehow remembered the street layout from having walked around the neighborhood before, maybe saw a landmark of some sort he wanted to see again, made a decision to go see it again, and followed through on it. I was nowhere near this decisive when I was 3; I was too scared. Although I'm wondering at this point what I was more scared of: actually getting hit by a car or getting punished by my parents. I remember them yelling at me when I did something "dangerous" (in their minds): "Do you realize how dangerous that was!? You could have been killed!" And all I could think at the time was: "If I was actually killed, I wouldn't have to listen to you yelling at me". In my mind, the real "danger" was artificially created by my parents through yelling at and punishing, not a naturally existing danger of cars and trucks.
Again, I understand the notion of caring for your child's safety, but it's sad how little control kids are given over their lives in the modern society. They want to do more with their lives, but can't. Just a few centuries ago, 3-year-olds would be already practicing for doing real work by doing small, simple tasks, such as dumping corn kernels into the henhouse. By age 8, they'd be doing full-fledged jobs: miking the cows, washing the horses, caring for the elderly, repainting the walls in a local church, sweeping the sidewalks, etc. It may have been physically tiring, but it lets kids practice for the freedom of adulthood. And if the job was not right next door, the child would have to walk down the village street on his/her own, and no one panicked. Sadly, soulless factory owners caught wind of this around the Industrial Revolution, and child labor began. Laws had to be enacted to prevent this. I, as a kid, would have loved to have a real job, rather than just doing chores at home, which I viewed as essentially make-work (created just to have work to be done with no tangible rewards).
Sadly, creating a controlled environment for a child to wander off it is virtually impossible in today's society. As the nearest-best solution, might as well go with what's already been said, and strictly enforce the hand-holding rule or something. |
Basically, we as parents have to set up something to keep our kids safe, as you stated you werent naturally scared of cars and trucks. Your parents chose to go the fear of them route, and I guess it worked casue you are here today!
Now maybe those kids several hundred years ago didnt WANT to be milking cows just as our kids dont want to stay in the backyard or go to school. There is no way to know if those youngsters were following their parents rules and or societal norms, or doing farm chores becasue they had natural desire to do so.
Sadly, we hear of autistic kids getting lost in alligator infested swamps (made news last year), drowning in lakes (one such case I knew of) erc, due to wandering off. I know this stuff hapens to NT kids as well, but our ASD kids have different issues to combat like lack of communication, not being able to give personal info, lack of understanding of danger, etc...
it is very hard and our FIRST priority as parents HAS to be safety of our children. period.
_________________
Dara, mom to my beautiful kids:
Jayden 7, diagnosed Aspergers and ADHD possible learning disability due to porcessing speed, born with a cleft lip and palate.
Miranda 4
Maya, who would be 5, my forever angel baby
Ethan, new to the world! |
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Wreck-Gar
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 20, 2011
Posts: 941
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| Aspie1 wrote: | | While I understand I'll catch quite a bit of heat for saying this, but I can't help but slightly admire that 3-year-old. He somehow remembered the street layout from having walked around the neighborhood before, maybe saw a landmark of some sort he wanted to see again, made a decision to go see it again, and followed through on it. I was nowhere near this decisive when I was 3; I was too scared. Although I'm wondering at this point what I was more scared of: actually getting hit by a car or getting punished by my parents. I remember them yelling at me when I did something "dangerous" (in their minds): "Do you realize how dangerous that was!? You could have been killed!" And all I could think at the time was: "If I was actually killed, I wouldn't have to listen to you yelling at me". In my mind, the real "danger" was artificially created by my parents through yelling at and punishing, not a naturally existing danger of cars and trucks. |
I think you are missing the point here. When I was little I used to like to go for long walks that my parents did not approve of. My parents would only let me go a couple of blocks but I'd go a lot farther than that and they never caught wind of it. But I always used the sidewalk or stayed at the side of the road when there wasn't a sidewalk.
This discussion is about kids who literally run in the middle of the street, quite literally not understanding the dangers of traffic. |
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BuyerBeware
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 29, 2011
Age: 35
Posts: 1038
Location: PA, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Not missing the point at all. Just raising the other side of it.
That IS the point, isn't it???
How do we teach them the necessary lessons, while still respecting their personhood, while still keeping them safe???
After all, if we structure the whole world with view to their limitations to keep them safe from all the dangers, we're depriving them of the chance to learn...
...and if we err in the least on the side of too little caution, at best we'll be judged neglectful parents and at worst they'll end up dead and never have a chance to learn anything at all.
What has to be done is somewhere in between, and it's a b***h of a balance to try to find, with very high stakes. That's why we ask for each other's input and advice, isn't it????
No one should judge, or chew anyone else out, or do anything to shut down dialog. Christ. Just finding the balls to TALK about this stuff in the open is hard.
_________________
I'm tired. I do not have sufficient strength remaining to persevere in the face of adversity. I accept myself as broken and conformity/compliance as the only acceptable existence. I give up.
What's on TV tonight?? |
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Wreck-Gar
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 20, 2011
Posts: 941
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| BuyerBeware wrote: | Not missing the point at all. Just raising the other side of it.
That IS the point, isn't it???
How do we teach them the necessary lessons, while still respecting their personhood, while still keeping them safe???
After all, if we structure the whole world with view to their limitations to keep them safe from all the dangers, we're depriving them of the chance to learn...
...and if we err in the least on the side of too little caution, at best we'll be judged neglectful parents and at worst they'll end up dead and never have a chance to learn anything at all.
What has to be done is somewhere in between, and it's a b***h of a balance to try to find, with very high stakes. That's why we ask for each other's input and advice, isn't it????
No one should judge, or chew anyone else out, or do anything to shut down dialog. Christ. Just finding the balls to TALK about this stuff in the open is hard. |
Do you have a non-verbal autistic kid? |
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