waitykatie
Sea Gull
Joined: Apr 19, 2012
Posts: 206
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 Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:05 am Post subject: Re: There's a fundamental missing element... |
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| The_Face_of_Boo wrote: | | so it's not possible that I am giving any creepy vibes |
I'd like to honestly address "creepy vibes." I got to know my Aspie only in close, one-on-one interactions. The many years I have known him, I have never been in a social situation with him. I always sensed something "different," but not creepy, exactly. Hesitation. Uncertainty. Low self-confidence. That "missing element." His actions and speech sometimes seemed rehearsed, like he was acting out a memorized script. Too perfect, too smooth, too flawless. But I loved him before I really knew him, and I understand where all that comes from now.
Still. Not too long ago, we had lunch at a restaurant. I hadn't seen him in a while. He told me he'd had a recent job interview, which didn't go very well. He explained that the interviewer was female, and he almost never makes a good impression on women. He's professionally very successful, so initially that puzzled me. He's also handsome, which can sway women as much as men often favor attractive women. I figured he'd be a shoe-in, if only for the opportunity to covertly ogle him all day!
I asked him to describe the conversation, and mentally face-palmed as I listened. For the first time, I saw him as strangers might see him, and picked up on that "creep" vibe. If I didn't know him, he would have struck me as creepy. That was just my "sense" as he talked. It's something intangible and hard to describe. On top of that weird vibe, his responses had focused on how the job would benefit him - not how being on the payroll would benefit the employer.
After listening for just 2 or 3 minutes, I knew he wouldn't get the job, and why. Combined with that nebulous "creep" factor, and his well-groomed, handsome appearance, he would have come across as self-absorbed, and used to getting his way. An arrogant prick. He absolutely isn't, and he works like a robot. Any employer more than gets their money's worth out of him. But in brief social interactions like that, you only get once chance to make a good impression.
NT women (and to an extent, NT men) have an "intuition" or a "spidey sense" about people - but the conclusions they draw from it are often completely wrong when it comes to Aspies. If he asked me how to correct that "creepy vibe," I'm not sure what I would suggest, other than maybe to practice more with a female colleague. (I'd be more than happy to coach him, but it's harder to notice intangibles like that, when you know someone so well). Similarly, perhaps you could try practicing with someone who is under strict orders to be totally honest and offer helpful suggestions? |
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The_Face_of_Boo
A savage
Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Age: 31
Posts: 9328
Location: Beirut ,Lebanon
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:18 am Post subject: Re: There's a fundamental missing element... |
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| waitykatie wrote: | | The_Face_of_Boo wrote: | | so it's not possible that I am giving any creepy vibes |
I'd like to honestly address "creepy vibes." I got to know my Aspie only in close, one-on-one interactions. The many years I have known him, I have never been in a social situation with him. I always sensed something "different," but not creepy, exactly. Hesitation. Uncertainty. Low self-confidence. That "missing element." His actions and speech sometimes seemed rehearsed, like he was acting out a memorized script. Too perfect, too smooth, too flawless. But I loved him before I really knew him, and I understand where all that comes from now.
Still. Not too long ago, we had lunch at a restaurant. I hadn't seen him in a while. He told me he'd had a recent job interview, which didn't go very well. He explained that the interviewer was female, and he almost never makes a good impression on women. He's professionally very successful, so initially that puzzled me. He's also handsome, which can sway women as much as men often favor attractive women. I figured he'd be a shoe-in, if only for the opportunity to covertly ogle him all day!
I asked him to describe the conversation, and mentally face-palmed as I listened. For the first time, I saw him as strangers might see him, and picked up on that "creep" vibe. If I didn't know him, he would have struck me as creepy. That was just my "sense" as he talked. It's something intangible and hard to describe. On top of that weird vibe, his responses had focused on how the job would benefit him - not how being on the payroll would benefit the employer.
After listening for just 2 or 3 minutes, I knew he wouldn't get the job, and why. Combined with that nebulous "creep" factor, and his well-groomed, handsome appearance, he would have come across as self-absorbed, and used to getting his way. An arrogant prick. He absolutely isn't, and he works like a robot. Any employer more than gets their money's worth out of him. But in brief social interactions like that, you only get once chance to make a good impression.
NT women (and to an extent, NT men) have an "intuition" or a "spidey sense" about people - but the conclusions they draw from it are often completely wrong when it comes to Aspies. If he asked me how to correct that "creepy vibe," I'm not sure what I would suggest, other than maybe to practice more with a female colleague. (I'd be more than happy to coach him, but it's harder to notice intangibles like that, when you know someone so well). Similarly, perhaps you could try practicing with someone who is under strict orders to be totally honest and offer helpful suggestions? |
No, this isn't my case and i'll explain why. I don't have this problem at all.
I don't want to boast, but I have always done very well in job interviews, about 7 months ago I got like 3 job interviews and I got into the final phases of ALL THREE (usually there's a first interview, a 2nd interview ...a 3rd). For the hottest vacancy, I got like 5 interviews: The first with the HR manager (the CEO's wife lol), the second with the HR manager again, the third was an oral presentation with the head of department, the fourth was more like a meeting with other parties, the fifth was a brief interview with the CEO - I was accepted.
(however my current employer offered a better offer so i remained in the same workplace, a decision that i regret now but this is another story).
The second vacancy was related to software sales, the interviewer was female (the HR director), a strong lady in her 40s, and she was like the harshest interviewer I have ever met in my life, she asked me about every single word in my resume like why i put this and i mentioned that and when was that. lol, she really did make me nervous. However, she called me again for an oral presentation for a specific subject, I did fairly well but she still was very harsh in her questions, I thought that i screwed it..... however she called me again after weeks for acceptance but i had already took my employer's job so i had to incline her offer (and honestly i am not into sales).
The third vacancy was a sales coordinator for building rehabilitation materials, it was directly with the CEO, a classy man in 60s, I did like 2 interview with him within one week, I was ACCEPTED but i didn't like the final offer.
My problem is getting job offers rather than job interviews themselves but this isn't related to creep vibes.
and there were other job interviews in my past ( and none of them were really bad) but i mentioned those three because they happened in a scope of three months.
So according to my interviews history, i don't have the problem of your bf, i don't have a creep vibe, i am very certain of that, however i am often told I appear very extremely polite, sometimes shy. |
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The_Face_of_Boo
A savage
Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Age: 31
Posts: 9328
Location: Beirut ,Lebanon
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:37 am Post subject: |
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and oh, speaking of job interviews, the easiest interviews I ever got were with YOUNG female interviewers. You know why? because they do most of the talk!!  They always end up talking about their job roles and their companies and what my roles would be - I usually push things this way too, like I throw a question to make her start this talking chain reaction, i listen very well to her input so i can later use it during the interview in order to give a good impression.
I got a job interview a week, it was with a young lady, she ended up complaining to me about the problems they're facing at work LOL - I am still under the screening process,....  ... now the waiting...
Based on the dozens of interviews i did in my life i noticed this gender-age pattern:
- Young female interviewers are the most comforting and the least challenging.
- Older male interviews are fairy easy.
- Old female and young male interviewers are the most challenging. |
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waitykatie
Sea Gull
Joined: Apr 19, 2012
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Roger that, Boo. No offense intended whatsoever. (And congratulations!) You're right - just get young women to natter about blah blah blah. You won't have to say a word! 
It was just a thought - I can only speak from my own experience, which is limited to a sample size of one. My guy (age 45) is a "camo-Aspie" - meaning, he's been determined to master "the art of acting NT" his whole life. So, even if not an issue for you, it might be an issue for others.
Also, I just wanted to caution against saying "people 'never' perceive me as XYZ." Really, no one has any idea, because so few people will say it to your face. I can take a good guess at how I am perceived most of the time - for better or worse - but I can't always be sure. 99.99% of everyone would probably be shocked (and horrified, miserable, depressed, etc.), if everyone else revealed such thoughts out loud.
Lastly: in the wedding reception context, I think the point about single women wanting to remain "available-looking" is a very good one, especially considering how differently married/unavailable women behave. As a non-dude, that observation makes perfect sense to me. I'm sure I've done it myself - it just barely registers at the level of conscious thought. |
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The_Face_of_Boo
A savage
Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Age: 31
Posts: 9328
Location: Beirut ,Lebanon
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| mv wrote: | Here's what I think, Boo. Take it or leave it.
A wedding reception is very much an on-display event for single women. A single woman is scrutinized every moment, her grooming, her clothing, who she talks to, who approaches her, how she behaves, is she drinking too much, etc. Notwithstanding the cultural practice of all the singles dancing in a large group, if it looks as though you're monopolizing one single woman and she's not into you, she doesn't want to appear as though she's "taken", so men she's into will be more likely to approach her. That could explain them distancing themselves from you. It's totally uncool, but I think that's what's going on here. This is why taken and married women have no problem with you dancing with them, there's no element of "need to be available so dudes I'm into will approach me".
This is not just weddings, either, I saw this all through junior high and high school, too. {My college was single-sex and didn't have dances.} |
Meaning that no one ever saw me as a potential mate, hmm. |
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The_Face_of_Boo
A savage
Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Age: 31
Posts: 9328
Location: Beirut ,Lebanon
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Could it be....because I am short? i would be shorter than most women in heels, just a thought.
Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on Wed May 30, 2012 1:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mv
Protector of the Realm
Joined: Jun 18, 2010
Posts: 3131
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Face_of_Boo wrote: | | mv wrote: | Here's what I think, Boo. Take it or leave it.
A wedding reception is very much an on-display event for single women. A single woman is scrutinized every moment, her grooming, her clothing, who she talks to, who approaches her, how she behaves, is she drinking too much, etc. Notwithstanding the cultural practice of all the singles dancing in a large group, if it looks as though you're monopolizing one single woman and she's not into you, she doesn't want to appear as though she's "taken", so men she's into will be more likely to approach her. That could explain them distancing themselves from you. It's totally uncool, but I think that's what's going on here. This is why taken and married women have no problem with you dancing with them, there's no element of "need to be available so dudes I'm into will approach me".
This is not just weddings, either, I saw this all through junior high and high school, too. {My college was single-sex and didn't have dances.} |
Meaning that no one ever saw me as a potential mate, hmm. |
Well, only in that context, maybe (or maybe the particular ladies you were dancing with; it goes both ways). And, again, it's a situation fraught with anxiety if you're one of the ladies "on display"... |
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edgewaters
hibernating
Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 2426
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: There's a fundamental missing element... |
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| The_Face_of_Boo wrote: | | What I can realize from all of this that there's a fundamental missing element of attraction in myself, it's so subtle though, it could be my whole body language and my eye contacts/ eye reflexes or maybe it's just my looks/body/appearance....but it's surely fundamental on an instinctual level. People on the dancing floor do not think logically, they go with the flow, with the flow of music, the movements ,their flow of their adrenaline and other hormones, they are not really aware of their actions and how rude they might appear ...it's just a matter of series of flows and mental reactions that happen in milliseconds. |
Motor skills. Awkward body language. It really doesn't matter if the dancing is easy, you can be awkward in your body language just standing and doing nothing.
I don't dance at weddings. Or try to avoid it. I've been forced/embarrassed into it a couple of times. One time I was asked and refused multiple times very politely and tactfully and I was badgered and shamed into doing it. I think this sort of thing is very rude and inconsiderate. They took advantage of the fact I didn't want to be really firm in refusing so as not to embarrass the girl asking me. I left an exit route for her in every refusal so she could back down gracefully and without losing face, so that the embarrassment would fall on me instead, but they (I say "they" because she had the assistance of everyone at my table) exploited this, knowing that I would not be so forceful as to do something like look her in the eye and say "No" and nothing more (I sure wanted to after the second refusal, though). It was obvious I didn't want to embarrass her, and that I was very flattered (which I was - I thought it was very nice that she asked). I feel sometimes like my good nature gets exploited a lot in all sorts of little ways like this.
It was terribly embarrassing, exactly as I feared it would be. It was a slow dance; the dancing itself was easy, that wasn't it, its not even really dancing, its just sort of shuffling around while being in very close proximity to one another. I thought she was really attractive, don't get me wrong, but it felt ... icky. There's something sort of sexual about it and up there in front of everyone ... just ... no, its no good, it doesn't feel good at all. It would be different in private, but in public it's different. I think it's kind of weird, in principle. Having all these people badger you into getting up in front of everyone and do something that's mildly sexual, which you're not comfortable with, while they all watch (and later, comment on). I know the sexuality of it is extremely mild and it doesn't mean anything, but still. Not cool. |
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mv
Protector of the Realm
Joined: Jun 18, 2010
Posts: 3131
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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I don't like to (partner-) dance at weddings, either (or anywhere in public). One, it's casual touch, which I have a really hard time with. Two, it always seems to be a pity thing, in who asks me (I'm one of the few people who doesn't scrounge up a date for a wedding, I never saw the point, and so ladies ask their gents to ask me to dance, and that kind of "social pity" is just intolerable). Three, it's an annoying exchange because invariably people don't believe me when I say I don't want to dance or don't know how to follow (in touch dance). I think they think that I'm waiting for someone "better" to ask me, when really I just want to be left alone to watch.
If I get really comfortably drunk at a wedding, I'll dance in the big pile of people that are dancing, but that's different. |
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ZX_SpectrumDisorder
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 25, 2012
Posts: 1608
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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How 'interactive' was the dancing? Were you just both throwing shapes at each other?
What sort of music? Was it real hardcore snakes in a basket stuff? |
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spongy
...
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
Age: 22
Posts: 7409
Location: Patiently waiting for the seventh wave
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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And of course I just remembered I agreed to going to a bar with live singing where I will most likely be expected to dance this friday.
Why?
Because Ive been postponing meeting some friends for a few weeks(couple of things got on the way) and I dont want them to think that Im avoiding them.
I have little/no idea how to dance(danced a couple of times last month by following the girl in front of me because I felt like doing something challenging thats all dancing Ive done this year and I wont get into last year to save the embarrassment ) and foreigners are likely to be able to dance better than me.
<Sarcasm> Its going to be so much fun</sarcasm>
Sorry for the derailing boo its just that I just remembered that and I felt like sharing it to show that you are not alone. |
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waitykatie
Sea Gull
Joined: Apr 19, 2012
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: There's a fundamental missing element... |
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| edgewaters wrote: | | It was terribly embarrassing, exactly as I feared it would be. It was a slow dance; the dancing itself was easy, that wasn't it, its not even really dancing, its just sort of shuffling around while being in very close proximity to one another. I thought she was really attractive, don't get me wrong, but it felt ... icky. There's something sort of sexual about it and up there in front of everyone ... just ... no, its no good, it doesn't feel good at all. It would be different in private, but in public it's different. I think it's kind of weird, in principle. Having all these people badger you into getting up in front of everyone and do something that's mildly sexual, which you're not comfortable with, while they all watch (and later, comment on). I know the sexuality of it is extremely mild and it doesn't mean anything, but still. Not cool. |
Bingo - and it isn't an AS thing. 90% of the NT men I've dated would not dance, period. which is fine and acceptable if a person is that visibly, intensely uncomfortable with it. Social pressure in situations like that (especially with the alcohol flowing) is to be expected. But once a certain level of resistance is reached, well-mannered NTs know to back off.
I don't think the "mild" sexuality of it is a minor issue at all. Touch can implicate sexuality, especially for Aspies with heightened tactile sensory thingies. My Aspie will NOT hug me in public. I've always accepted it, but it confused me until I connected the dots. Not being male, I did not experience the very hormonal high school years of a teenaged male, with all the unexpected . . . saluting . . . going on, or ever have to deal with hiding it in a public setting. I finally deduced that my guy had some issues with that, which is where the no-public-hugging comes from.
Women's "equipment" is hidden, so none of us have any idea what that is like. Thus, some may be pushy and rude about dancing at wedding receptions, to the point of outright disrespect. In that case, it is appropriate to be equally rude back. Either with a direct, flat-out NO; or even more entertainingly, a detailed, graphic description of what could happen "downstairs," if you are forced to slow-dance with a hottie.  |
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nick007
old-skewl fan-boy
Joined: May 05, 2010
Age: 30
Posts: 9737
Location: was Louisiana but moved in with my girlfreind in Vermont
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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I thought of a tip from the movie How To Be A Player. Go for the ugliest looking woman & the more attractive women will think your a real sweet guy by dancing with her & they will become interested.
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mv
Protector of the Realm
Joined: Jun 18, 2010
Posts: 3131
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| nick007 wrote: | | I thought of a tip from the movie How To Be A Player. Go for the ugliest looking woman & the more attractive women will think your a real sweet guy by dancing with her & they will become interested. |
And that leaves the ugliest-looking woman where, exactly?  |
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nick007
old-skewl fan-boy
Joined: May 05, 2010
Age: 30
Posts: 9737
Location: was Louisiana but moved in with my girlfreind in Vermont
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| mv wrote: | | nick007 wrote: | | I thought of a tip from the movie How To Be A Player. Go for the ugliest looking woman & the more attractive women will think your a real sweet guy by dancing with her & they will become interested. |
And that leaves the ugliest-looking woman where, exactly? |
Good point. I should of added or keep dancing with her if she's still interested in dancing with Boo
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