Tawaki
Snowy Owl
Joined: Oct 01, 2011
Posts: 156
Location: MidWest Hell Hole
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 Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| jackbus01 wrote: | | Tawaki wrote: | My Aspie husband does this, and it can be really painful. Yes/no question or something that needs one sentence can morph into a 10 minute monolog, with everyone around mentally checking out.
It is really bad at a doctor appointment. When Fior went for his Aspie diagnoses appt., he told the psych guy he couldn't possibly have Asperger. Then promptly dragged out a dossier the size of the Manhattan phone book with all the the tiniest details of his life. About 3/4 ths of it, the psych guy didn't give a sh** about. And Fior got angry when the dude asked a relative question. Fior felt the psych needed the whole, excruciating long story FIRST, then questions.
I'll be honest, I checked out 5 minutes into the monolog. Psych guy was very polite and manage to reign Fior in around the 20 min mark.
Fior can't prioritize anything. Any subject needs the PhD thesis behind it. Mix horrible executive functioning skills, total lack of noticing body language and a helping of social anxiety, Fior can talk non stop about ketsup, when you ask, "Can you pass the ketsup over here." |
Double post!?
Well, I don't know the context of this story (perhaps more detail would help, ironically this post underexplains!), but sometimes an honest yes/no answer does not tell the whole story. Here is an example: Do you like your husband? (yes/no only please  ). I would probably be upset if my discussion was interrupted with an relative question. There are two sides to stories like this. BTW what is a relative question?--do you mean relevant?
The problem is most people assume things and people speak far too vaguely and grossly underexplain things. I think it helps to be explicit and detailed. That is the key to good communication and to avoid misunderstandings. Fortunately, people on WP seem to be good at this for the most part. |
My husband can talk, in a casual conversation for over 1 hour and 30 mins, uninterrupted.
A discussion takes two people. Unless you are giving a lecture on a subject, the other person will check out at the 15 minute mark, if there isn't a break for a question etc.
Fior has no clue how to shift between -this is work, and I am explaining a technical issue to a co worker, which does need very explicit detail- to I saw Jim in the hallway, and we are just chit chatting.
This got him into trouble at work. He stands way too close and sounds like he is lecturing, not talking. Fior doesn't read the body language where someone is being polite and would like to add to the conversation. This isn't debate class were one side gets 10 minutes to make a point with the other side not talking. Everyone thought he was being an arrogant, bullying jerk. The truth is quite the opposite, Fior is terrified of making a mistake. He feels he must get everything "out there" or he won't be understood. That more is a good thing.
The psychiatrist (who specializes in ASD), did not want to plow through Fior's 2 inch thick dossier from birth to now. The fact that it was two inches, with outlines, time lines, and graphs, and rambled in intricate detail screamed Asperger. It lacked, the much needed medical test results from his neurologist and internists. THAT was important to rule out organic causes. I knew the stuff wasn't in there, and the doctor would be aggravated, but it wasn't important to Fior. (those were faxed over later, pick your battles).
Details: Fior went to psychiatrist for diagnosis of ASD, brought 2 inch dossier of rambling, not important details with him. Doctor let Fior talk for 20 mins, which is really unusual as most would have cut him off at the 5 min. mark.
The dossier wasn't really needed. Fior has sensory issue up the wazoo, light, sound, food, touch. No friends out side the family. Uses no eye contact in conversations with others. Does not read body language at all. Stims by pulling/his twirling his hair. Lost job due to communication issues. Bombed whatever test is used to evaluate executive functioning. Has a very high IQ.
He has the best sense of dry humour I have ever met. Fior is kind to a fault and loyal. A very, very hard worker. Can talk on a variety of esoteric subjects. Willing to put up with my goofiness. A good father to our child. And together (when he is feeling well), we can have a blast together.
There is a whole lot of good in Fior.
Just because I discussed his tendency to turn a conversation into a monolog, doesn't mean I don't love him. I'm sure he can nit pick apart all my valid faults too.
Relationships mean accepting the rough with the smooth. And we both try to do that. After 25 years of marriage, it is getting better.
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Tawaki
Snowy Owl
Joined: Oct 01, 2011
Posts: 156
Location: MidWest Hell Hole
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| edgewaters wrote: | | Blownmind wrote: | | Tawaki wrote: | | When Fior went for his Aspie diagnoses appt., he told the psych guy he couldn't possibly have Asperger. Then promptly dragged out a dossier the size of the Manhattan phone book with all the the tiniest details of his life. |
*hides the dossier(s) I made for my Asperger diagnosis* |
Oh God ... I was planning to spend the next couple of months assembling one with school records and notes and all sorts of stuff.
OK ... I still am. Those school records at least really make the case. I'm worried about misdiagnosis so I want them to have the most accurate information. The whole process seems quite arbitrary. |
If you live in the States, go to the SSA/SSDI web site and see what they use for criteria to grant disability. Google "Blue Book", which is what SSA uses. It will break down each section of what EXACTLY they are looking for. You can arrange according to that as a rough outline.
Okay, I'll provide the links
http://www.ssa.gov/disability/professionals/bluebook/AdultListings.htm (main page)
http://www.ssa.gov/disability/professionals/bluebook/12.00-MentalDisorders-Adult.htm (sorry gentle readers, SSA files Autism under mental disorders)
http://www.ssa.gov/disability/professionals/bluebook/12.00-MentalDisorders-Adult.htm#12_10
(12.10 is Autism)
Fior could have gutted about 3/4 ths of what he had using 12.10 as a guide. Believe me, people reviewing your case will not rejoice grinding through extra material. You can even break it up in sections.
People don't mind big files, if they can quickly find what they need. That is why sections help.
It is fine assembling things for a medical appointment, or a government agency. Just make sure EVERYTHING has a purpose in making your case. |
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falonsayswoah
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Mar 27, 2012
Age: 19
Posts: 59
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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I definitely over-explain. I do it more in writing, probably because there's nothing/no one to interrupt me. In person, it usually goes one of three ways: 1) I go on and on... and on and on, and then I realize that I've been talking for a while and then I say something like, "I'm just going to stop talking now," or "Okay I'm done talking," 2) I start rambling about something, and someone else interrupts politely, or something happens that forces me to stop, such as class starting, or 3) I try to speak but I am too tired so I don't explain enough, and say a few words that seem related in my mind but probably aren't getting my point across, or I say, "I don't know," or something else short.
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Diagnosis: Major Depressive Affective Disorder, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, Mild PTSD, Agoraphobia with Panic Disorder, Attention Deficit Disorder of childhood with hyperactivity (more inattentive, though), Mild OCD, Social Phobia, Tourette's Syndrome |
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CanisMajor
Toucan
Joined: Feb 27, 2012
Age: 24
Posts: 271
Location: Miami Beach
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| falonsayswoah wrote: | | I definitely over-explain. I do it more in writing, probably because there's nothing/no one to interrupt me. In person, it usually goes one of three ways: 1) I go on and on... and on and on, and then I realize that I've been talking for a while and then I say something like, "I'm just going to stop talking now," or "Okay I'm done talking," 2) I start rambling about something, and someone else interrupts politely, or something happens that forces me to stop, such as class starting, or 3) I try to speak but I am too tired so I don't explain enough, and say a few words that seem related in my mind but probably aren't getting my point across, or I say, "I don't know," or something else short. |
Sounds like me. Especially #1. Sometimes I don't even think I've been talking very long, but I know I ramble at times, so I catch myself and say "Sorry, that's probably boring. I'll shut up now." I think it's a pretty good way to stop if you remember to do it. That way other people don't have to feel rude by asking you to be quiet. I usually get a polite response like, "Nah, it's okay. Don't worry", but I know better than to take that as a green light to continue rambling. |
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AnotherKind
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 15, 2011
Posts: 769
Location: Neverland
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, i tend to over-explain everything but it gets more f**** up everytime i try. Mostly when i'm trying to justify myself (like i'm some kind of murderer or something lol)
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Agnostic atheist. Hardcore determinist. Misanthrope. Objectivist. INTP.
AS: 165, NT: 44 |
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edgewaters
hibernating
Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 2426
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Tawaki wrote: | | If you live in the States, go to the SSA/SSDI web site and see what they use for criteria to grant disability. Google "Blue Book", which is what SSA uses. It will break down each section of what EXACTLY they are looking for. |
Well I don't live in the US and I'm just as cautious about a misdiagnosis of AS as a misdiagnosis of something else. I want, the right diagnosis. So I don't want to tailor the data to suit. I just want to give the data and let them do their job.
That being said they do seem arbitrary and I don't entirely trust them to get it right, even with the correct data. Kind of a dilemma. |
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NicoleG
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Age: 36
Posts: 661
Location: Dallas-Fort Worth
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Yes.
...
...
(Resisting the urge to explain this further, thereby repeating pretty much what EVERYONE else has already said...) |
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purplemanatee
Butterfly
Joined: May 20, 2012
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I tend to under-explain, probably. I actually have a great distaste for verbosity so I try to be as concise as possible. |
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Blownmind
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
Age: 33
Posts: 823
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| Tawaki wrote: | | edgewaters wrote: | | Blownmind wrote: | | *hides the dossier(s) I made for my Asperger diagnosis* |
Oh God ... I was planning to spend the next couple of months assembling one with school records and notes and all sorts of stuff.
OK ... I still am. Those school records at least really make the case. I'm worried about misdiagnosis so I want them to have the most accurate information. The whole process seems quite arbitrary. |
If you live in the States, go to the SSA/SSDI web site and see what they use for criteria to grant disability. Google "Blue Book", which is what SSA uses. It will break down each section of what EXACTLY they are looking for. You can arrange according to that as a rough outline.
http://www.ssa.gov/disability/professionals/bluebook/AdultListings.htm (main page)
http://www.ssa.gov/disability/professionals/bluebook/12.00-MentalDisorders-Adult.htm (sorry gentle readers, SSA files Autism under mental disorders)
http://www.ssa.gov/disability/professionals/bluebook/12.00-MentalDisorders-Adult.htm#12_10
Believe me, people reviewing your case will not rejoice grinding through extra material. You can even break it up in sections.
People don't mind big files, if they can quickly find what they need. That is why sections help. |
Thanks for the info, I will look through it when I get time. I'm not from US though, but I have checked with DSM, ICD and Gillbergs diagnosis criteria before I wrote a summary of my life, categorized by the different areas of interest and ordered by age. I have met little understanding though, they would rather ask questions and hear it from me themselves, than to read what I wrote. Since I have trouble articulating my thoughts, I prefer it the other way around of course.
I don't think my government has a bluebook in the same regard, but I have seen an ICD-10 bluebook for Asperger's Syndrome diagnosis criteria, so I guess thats the closest I will get.
_________________
AQ: 42/50 || SQ: 32/80 || IQ(RPM): 138 || IRI-empathytest(PT/EC/FS/PD): 10(-7)/16(-3)/19(+3)/19(+10) || Alexithymia: 148/185 || Aspie-quiz: AS 133/200, NT 56/200 |
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slave
Always stuck between 13-38Hz and tired of it.
Joined: Feb 29, 2012
Age: 100
Posts: 1320
Location: Dystopia Planetia
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| oxjox wrote: | | slave wrote: | I get the 'wrap it up' hand gesture regularly.
I over-explain to normals and sub-normals mostly because they think they understand all of the implications of a topic after a few sentences. Perhaps it is their innate simplicity that I desire to correct. |
Ha! That's it!
It's hard to say it without sounding arrogant, but why don't people want to investigate the truth behind things?
I make long explanations because I want to share all the information I've found, and any speculation I've had regarding it, and my ideas on the topic.... etc. Any one of these morsels could light the spark of inspiration!
I have no excuses when my mind goes blank mid-sentence and the words stop making sense, though. |
The masses don't want to investigate the truth behind things because their minds are insufficiently complex. Yeah it does sound arrogant and I don't mean it to be, but that is the real reason.
_________________
Since the birth of civilization, masters have controlled the masses.Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them.They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. Any who resist will be destroyed.I will not resist. |
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slave
Always stuck between 13-38Hz and tired of it.
Joined: Feb 29, 2012
Age: 100
Posts: 1320
Location: Dystopia Planetia
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Tawaki wrote: | | jackbus01 wrote: | | Tawaki wrote: | My Aspie husband does this, and it can be really painful. Yes/no question or something that needs one sentence can morph into a 10 minute monolog, with everyone around mentally checking out.
It is really bad at a doctor appointment. When Fior went for his Aspie diagnoses appt., he told the psych guy he couldn't possibly have Asperger. Then promptly dragged out a dossier the size of the Manhattan phone book with all the the tiniest details of his life. About 3/4 ths of it, the psych guy didn't give a sh** about. And Fior got angry when the dude asked a relative question. Fior felt the psych needed the whole, excruciating long story FIRST, then questions.
I'll be honest, I checked out 5 minutes into the monolog. Psych guy was very polite and manage to reign Fior in around the 20 min mark.
Fior can't prioritize anything. Any subject needs the PhD thesis behind it. Mix horrible executive functioning skills, total lack of noticing body language and a helping of social anxiety, Fior can talk non stop about ketsup, when you ask, "Can you pass the ketsup over here." |
Double post!?
Well, I don't know the context of this story (perhaps more detail would help, ironically this post underexplains!), but sometimes an honest yes/no answer does not tell the whole story. Here is an example: Do you like your husband? (yes/no only please ). I would probably be upset if my discussion was interrupted with an relative question. There are two sides to stories like this. BTW what is a relative question?--do you mean relevant?
The problem is most people assume things and people speak far too vaguely and grossly underexplain things. I think it helps to be explicit and detailed. That is the key to good communication and to avoid misunderstandings. Fortunately, people on WP seem to be good at this for the most part. |
My husband can talk, in a casual conversation for over 1 hour and 30 mins, uninterrupted.
A discussion takes two people. Unless you are giving a lecture on a subject, the other person will check out at the 15 minute mark, if there isn't a break for a question etc.
Fior has no clue how to shift between -this is work, and I am explaining a technical issue to a co worker, which does need very explicit detail- to I saw Jim in the hallway, and we are just chit chatting.
This got him into trouble at work. He stands way too close and sounds like he is lecturing, not talking. Fior doesn't read the body language where someone is being polite and would like to add to the conversation. This isn't debate class were one side gets 10 minutes to make a point with the other side not talking. Everyone thought he was being an arrogant, bullying jerk. The truth is quite the opposite, Fior is terrified of making a mistake. He feels he must get everything "out there" or he won't be understood. That more is a good thing.
The psychiatrist (who specializes in ASD), did not want to plow through Fior's 2 inch thick dossier from birth to now. The fact that it was two inches, with outlines, time lines, and graphs, and rambled in intricate detail screamed Asperger. It lacked, the much needed medical test results from his neurologist and internists. THAT was important to rule out organic causes. I knew the stuff wasn't in there, and the doctor would be aggravated, but it wasn't important to Fior. (those were faxed over later, pick your battles).
Details: Fior went to psychiatrist for diagnosis of ASD, brought 2 inch dossier of rambling, not important details with him. Doctor let Fior talk for 20 mins, which is really unusual as most would have cut him off at the 5 min. mark.
The dossier wasn't really needed. Fior has sensory issue up the wazoo, light, sound, food, touch. No friends out side the family. Uses no eye contact in conversations with others. Does not read body language at all. Stims by pulling/his twirling his hair. Lost job due to communication issues. Bombed whatever test is used to evaluate executive functioning. Has a very high IQ.
He has the best sense of dry humour I have ever met. Fior is kind to a fault and loyal. A very, very hard worker. Can talk on a variety of esoteric subjects. Willing to put up with my goofiness. A good father to our child. And together (when he is feeling well), we can have a blast together.
There is a whole lot of good in Fior.
Just because I discussed his tendency to turn a conversation into a monolog, doesn't mean I don't love him. I'm sure he can nit pick apart all my valid faults too.
Relationships mean accepting the rough with the smooth. And we both try to do that. After 25 years of marriage, it is getting better.
You sound lovely, he is a lucky man.
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_________________
Since the birth of civilization, masters have controlled the masses.Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them.They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. Any who resist will be destroyed.I will not resist. |
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zombiegirl2010
Toucan
Joined: Apr 21, 2012
Age: 34
Posts: 273
Location: edge of sanity and bliss
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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I went on an over explaining spree last night. Things are terribly misconstrued through text messaging, and one of these mishaps resulted in my SO being horribly miffed with me because I misunderstood her and got my feelings hurt. I then went on a loooooooooooooong explanation of WHY my feelings were hurt. Needless to say, she was SUPER miffed with me by the time she got home.  We got it sorted out though.
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Your Aspie score: 193 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 7 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie |
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enrico_dandolo
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 21, 2011
Posts: 866
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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I over-explain as well.
When I have to ask for something, I always start with a long preamble, stating why I ask what I haven't even asked yet, and preventing some criticisms about points that haven't yet been brought up, and, then, finally, ask the main question.
| edgewaters wrote: | | TallyMan wrote: | | My guess is that a significant cause of the over-explaining / under-explaining problem is our lack of recognition of body language. So unless people we are talking to explicitly say they have understood or not understood what we have said, we are left floundering around not knowing how much detail to give or if indeed we need to try to repeat ourselves using different words. |
Hmmm ... that might be plausible ... I used to drive my parents nuts when I was a kid, because I'd finish almost every sentence with "right mom?" or "right dad?" unless it was a question rather than a statement.
The thing is, why do we do it on the internet, too? There's no body language involved yet the difference in communication is still apparent. |
Maybe there is another side to it the body language aspect that comes into play. Since we don't necessarly see the importance of body language and nonverbal communication for normal people, we only use words for meaningful communication. Also, being constantly misunderstood because of our lack of body language, we might also be tempted to pour even more effort into adding more and more words for the purpose of communication (as well as choosing more precise words). Using the "90% of communication is nonverbal" claim (or whatever the percentage is), for us, to have the same feeling of having fully expressed our view as a normal people, we would have to say roughly 10 times more words. The main thing, here, is that it is a question of perception of having talked clearly -- the effective comprehension from the interlocutor is irrelevant. Of course, there is no body language on the Internet, but there is also nothing to say that what one have said is clear, since I one hasn't posted it yet, so someone with Asperger's syndrome has no reason to stop adding meaning-bearing words to make sure they have made themself clear, where a normal person, with a different understanding of communication, will say no more words than in real life. |
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Lexa
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: May 30, 2012
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| slave wrote: | | The masses don't want to investigate the truth behind things because their minds are insufficiently complex. Yeah it does sound arrogant and I don't mean it to be, but that is the real reason. |
EXACTEMENT, mon ami!
Yes, yes, yes.
I am pro-arrogance, anyway.
Arrogance of thought is what moves the human race forwards, culturally and technologically. |
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katwithhat
Toucan
Joined: Mar 01, 2012
Age: 37
Posts: 271
Location: Who knows
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:25 am Post subject: |
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I over explain when I feel passionate about something or REALLY trying to get my point across. I under explain when I feel frustrated. Just last night I was trying to my guy friend to understand how bad I am about communication and after the long winded, one sided conversation, he looked at me and said that I was a "fine" communicator. 
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I see your lips moving, but all I hear is, oh, look!!! A cat... |
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