Blownmind
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
Age: 33
Posts: 823
Location: Norway
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 Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: Religious Apes with Technology. |
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| cyberscan wrote: | | I'm sorry that you have met a few religious people who happen to (maybe) be stupid, but like I said before, you should NOT brand an entire population as stupid because they have different beliefs than you. I too, have met people of the Evolutionist faith who are as dumb as a post, and I have also met some quite intelligent people of the same belief. In fact, I USED to be an Evolutionist myself until I learned more about science, history, language, and and other disciplines. Maybe when you get away from the government education system, study a bit on your own, and take the time to experience life, you too might change your mind. |
I know this was not a reply to me, but I still feel the urge to comment.
Indicating that he might change his mind if he only gains more knowledge and experience, would be to indicate that he is not right in his beliefs or that he just is not smart enough to understand the truth. I noticed you used words like "maybe" and "might", but from my point of view, you just called him "stupid" with a few more words.
Anyways, religion and politics is a neverending discussion, which I usually butt out of, so I will try to keep my distance and not get dragged in more than I already am.
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edgewaters
hibernating
Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 2426
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| LookTwice wrote: | As far as I can see, noone said it was supposed to be a premise. It was an implicit assumption, maybe one that can be questioned.
The whole point of the argument was making an educated bet, not a logical conclusion. |
An implicit assumption that is the foundation of or prerequisite for an argument or train of logic, IS a premise. That's what premise means. |
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redrobin62
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 03, 2012
Age: 50
Posts: 3838
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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There's a saying you hear in colleges which goes: "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullsh*t."
I've noticed a lot of folks try to explain their ideas and beliefs here on WP and elsewhere by using tons of big words. I can't help but think it's just a futile attempt to confuse someone and win an argument. Just saying. |
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CornerPuzzlePieces
Toucan
Joined: Feb 28, 2012
Age: 20
Posts: 289
Location: B.C Canada
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Blownmind wrote: | | cyberscan wrote: | | I'm sorry that you have met a few religious people who happen to (maybe) be stupid, but like I said before, you should NOT brand an entire population as stupid because they have different beliefs than you. I too, have met people of the Evolutionist faith who are as dumb as a post, and I have also met some quite intelligent people of the same belief. In fact, I USED to be an Evolutionist myself until I learned more about science, history, language, and and other disciplines. Maybe when you get away from the government education system, study a bit on your own, and take the time to experience life, you too might change your mind. |
I know this was not a reply to me, but I still feel the urge to comment.
Indicating that he might change his mind if he only gains more knowledge and experience, would be to indicate that he is not right in his beliefs or that he just is not smart enough to understand the truth. I noticed you used words like "maybe" and "might", but from my point of view, you just called him "stupid" with a few more words.
Anyways, religion and politics is a neverending discussion, which I usually butt out of, so I will try to keep my distance and not get dragged in more than I already am. |
The Evolutionist thing again.. cmon!
Just use the term evolution to describe the process, instead of branding us all evolutionists..
See what I did there? Heh. Branding. 
Indeed, you could spend a life cycle going around with this stuff... but hey it's not all bad.
Don't let it ruin your day- I wont either.. it's just the internet after all. I've been in less thought provoking discussions with people on the internet./
Last edited by CornerPuzzlePieces on Thu May 31, 2012 12:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CornerPuzzlePieces
Toucan
Joined: Feb 28, 2012
Age: 20
Posts: 289
Location: B.C Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| redrobin62 wrote: | There's a saying you hear in colleges which goes: "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullsh*t."
I've noticed a lot of folks try to explain their ideas and beliefs here on WP and elsewhere by using tons of big words. I can't help but think it's just a futile attempt to confuse someone and win an argument. Just saying. |
It took several minutes for my university level english classmates to find all the big words, when they could use simpler ones.. Personally I think it makes me look like a goof. So I usually just simplify if possible.
Although, sometimes big words are appropriate. |
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cyberscan
Naughty Autie
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 1357
Location: Near Panama, City Florida
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:07 am Post subject: Re: Religious Apes with Technology. |
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| Blownmind wrote: | | cyberscan wrote: | | I'm sorry that you have met a few religious people who happen to (maybe) be stupid, but like I said before, you should NOT brand an entire population as stupid because they have different beliefs than you. I too, have met people of the Evolutionist faith who are as dumb as a post, and I have also met some quite intelligent people of the same belief. In fact, I USED to be an Evolutionist myself until I learned more about science, history, language, and and other disciplines. Maybe when you get away from the government education system, study a bit on your own, and take the time to experience life, you too might change your mind. |
I know this was not a reply to me, but I still feel the urge to comment.
Indicating that he might change his mind if he only gains more knowledge and experience, would be to indicate that he is not right in his beliefs or that he just is not smart enough to understand the truth. I noticed you used words like "maybe" and "might", but from my point of view, you just called him "stupid" with a few more words.
Anyways, religion and politics is a neverending discussion, which I usually butt out of, so I will try to keep my distance and not get dragged in more than I already am. |
That's not what I meant. When I said, "might," I meant it. I know people who grow up in religious backgrounds who, when they get older, decide to quit believing in Scripture. I also know others, who like me, quit believing in Evolutionism and start believing in scripture. I also know people who retain the same beliefs throughout their lives.
My aim in replying is to instill a little tolerance and respect for other points of view. What prompted me to first post to this thread was the fact that CornerPuzzlePieces implied that just because someone believes in scripture that they are less intelligent apes. It was this intolerance that had to be addressed, and I wanted to explain that not all or even most people who believe in the Bible are less intelligent than those who believe in Evolutionism. I know both intelligent and plain stupid people from both worldviews.
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NeantHumain
Phoenix
![]()
Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 5119
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| I hereby nominate CornerPuzzlePieces be appointed dictator for life. It is only by his wisdom that the religious scourge shall be wiped off this Earth to be replaced by rational beings. Then we will make more iPhones and Razrs to populate the Earth. CornerPuzzlePieces will publish his grand doctoral thesis, unimpeded by people of faith's existing. |
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CornerPuzzlePieces
Toucan
Joined: Feb 28, 2012
Age: 20
Posts: 289
Location: B.C Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:57 am Post subject: |
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That actually doesn't sound too bad.. dictator mortality rates aside of course.
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Blownmind
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
Age: 33
Posts: 823
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:06 am Post subject: Re: Religious Apes with Technology. |
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| cyberscan wrote: | | Blownmind wrote: | | cyberscan wrote: | | I'm sorry that you have met a few religious people who happen to (maybe) be stupid, but like I said before, you should NOT brand an entire population as stupid because they have different beliefs than you. I too, have met people of the Evolutionist faith who are as dumb as a post, and I have also met some quite intelligent people of the same belief. In fact, I USED to be an Evolutionist myself until I learned more about science, history, language, and and other disciplines. Maybe when you get away from the government education system, study a bit on your own, and take the time to experience life, you too might change your mind. |
I know this was not a reply to me, but I still feel the urge to comment.
Indicating that he might change his mind if he only gains more knowledge and experience, would be to indicate that he is not right in his beliefs or that he just is not smart enough to understand the truth. I noticed you used words like "maybe" and "might", but from my point of view, you just called him "stupid" with a few more words.
Anyways, religion and politics is a neverending discussion, which I usually butt out of, so I will try to keep my distance and not get dragged in more than I already am. |
That's not what I meant. When I said, "might," I meant it. I know people who grow up in religious backgrounds who, when they get older, decide to quit believing in Scripture. I also know others, who like me, quit believing in Evolutionism and start believing in scripture. I also know people who retain the same beliefs throughout their lives.
My aim in replying is to instill a little tolerance and respect for other points of view. What prompted me to first post to this thread was the fact that CornerPuzzlePieces implied that just because someone believes in scripture that they are less intelligent apes. It was this intolerance that had to be addressed, and I wanted to explain that not all or even most people who believe in the Bible are less intelligent than those who believe in Evolutionism. I know both intelligent and plain stupid people from both worldviews. |
I did not mean to attack you personally, sorry if it came out that way. I just tried to point out that the discussion had essentially regressed into schoolyard-speak; "-You're stupid!" "-No, you are!"
(religion and politics is a neverending discussion)
I like that you are an openminded person, religious or not does not matter as long as you have tolerance and respect.
I come from a non-believing family, and I believe as much in aliens as I do in gods. My wife and her family(all very intelligent and friendly people) are all religious. So I agree. 
*Officially out of religion discussion now*
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SanityTheorist
Wandering Artist
Joined: Feb 14, 2012
Posts: 2096
Location: The Akuma Afterglow
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Everybody here makes good points, but let's not forget: the church jailed Galileo for going against their word and the religious nuts still consider stem cells wrong, despite the fact that as long as we have abortions we might as well use them to improve the lives of others.
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edgewaters
hibernating
Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 2426
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| redrobin62 wrote: | There's a saying you hear in colleges which goes: "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullsh*t."
I've noticed a lot of folks try to explain their ideas and beliefs here on WP and elsewhere by using tons of big words. I can't help but think it's just a futile attempt to confuse someone and win an argument. Just saying. |
Sometimes its required for precision. Also brevity has never been my strong suit, I am quite jealous of people who can say in 2 sentences what takes me 2 paragraphs - and I frequently say so, if you look through my posts. |
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Blownmind
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
Age: 33
Posts: 823
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| edgewaters wrote: | | Also brevity has never been my strong suit, I am quite jealous of people who can say in 2 sentences what takes me 2 paragraphs - and I frequently say so, if you look through my posts. |
Congrats on writing only 2 sentences this time! 
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Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
Joined: Jan 31, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 5022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: Religious Apes with Technology. |
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| cyberscan wrote: | | Blownmind wrote: | | cyberscan wrote: | | I'm sorry that you have met a few religious people who happen to (maybe) be stupid, but like I said before, you should NOT brand an entire population as stupid because they have different beliefs than you. I too, have met people of the Evolutionist faith who are as dumb as a post, and I have also met some quite intelligent people of the same belief. In fact, I USED to be an Evolutionist myself until I learned more about science, history, language, and and other disciplines. Maybe when you get away from the government education system, study a bit on your own, and take the time to experience life, you too might change your mind. |
I know this was not a reply to me, but I still feel the urge to comment.
Indicating that he might change his mind if he only gains more knowledge and experience, would be to indicate that he is not right in his beliefs or that he just is not smart enough to understand the truth. I noticed you used words like "maybe" and "might", but from my point of view, you just called him "stupid" with a few more words.
Anyways, religion and politics is a neverending discussion, which I usually butt out of, so I will try to keep my distance and not get dragged in more than I already am. |
That's not what I meant. When I said, "might," I meant it. I know people who grow up in religious backgrounds who, when they get older, decide to quit believing in Scripture. I also know others, who like me, quit believing in Evolutionism and start believing in scripture. I also know people who retain the same beliefs throughout their lives.
My aim in replying is to instill a little tolerance and respect for other points of view. What prompted me to first post to this thread was the fact that CornerPuzzlePieces implied that just because someone believes in scripture that they are less intelligent apes. It was this intolerance that had to be addressed, and I wanted to explain that not all or even most people who believe in the Bible are less intelligent than those who believe in Evolutionism. I know both intelligent and plain stupid people from both worldviews. |
respect is earned not given implicitly, and i agree intelligencee doesnt come into play the real physical world does.
that said i can tolerate a viewpoint as long as they tolerate me expressing mine of theirs.
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TheBicyclingGuitarist
Phoenix
Joined: May 28, 2007
Posts: 1018
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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cyberscan, you are very misinformed on the subject of evolution. Whatever your sources, they are wrong.
You seem intelligent, but garbage in, garbage out. Evolution is not a religion by any stretch of the definition of what religion is and what science is. Evolution is good solid science, in fact, I do not know of any other scientific idea that has as much evidence of so many different types that all point to the same reality. I have studied this subject intensely more than forty years (I turn fifty-two this summer), and what amazes me more than anything is how many people are so incredibly misinformed about this subject.
Evolution has nothing to do with Hitler or his policies. There IS abundant evidence of hominid evolution, thousands of fossils from more than a dozen species of our ancestors or close cousins of the past six or eight million years, and even if there were NO fossils, none at all, there is way more than sufficient evidence of other types that clearly show evolution happens way beyond any reasonable doubt.
IF you are a sincere seeker of truth, I recommend the "talk origins" web site or (if you have questions) discussion group. One of their web site's pages deals specifically with every creationist claim and thoroughly debunks all of them, with references. The "Sensuous Curmudgeon" blog also has many archived articles that deal with your erroneous misunderstanding of what evolution is and how much evidence there is for it, including articles about the fossil evidence and about the supposed links from Darwin to Hitler.
It is such ignorance of basic facts of nature such as evolution on the part of some Christians that make Christians look really stupid to people who are aware of what evidence actually exists. IF evolution were the way some creationist web sites portray it, then of course it is ridiculous and nobody should accept it as the fact that it is. However, such web sites are notorious for ignoring much of the evidence, and denying or distorting the evidence they don't ignore. You have been lied to by whoever gave you your information on this subject.
A long time ago Saint Augustine warned of this very problem, that if Christians make ignorant assertions about the natural world that unbelievers can clearly see are false, it destroys the credibility of their beliefs. Put yourself in my shoes for a moment please. Imagine somebody were to tell you they had the answer to eternal life in heaven and salvation from hell, that they knew God's will for you, but then out of the blue they also say that the earth is flat in spite of all evidence to the contrary. It is THAT ridiculous. Would be willing to trust their advice on spiritual matters when they are so easily proven wrong about physical matters so easily checked?
It's funny that so many Christians say that if evolution is true, then God is a liar. I see it the complete opposite: if evolution did NOT happen then God is a liar for planting so many different types of evidence that clearly show it DOES happen. Like it or not, humans are close biological cousins to chimpanzees and other great apes. Even Michael Behe (author of Darwin's Black Box and other "intelligent design" books) concedes that the earth is more than 4 billion years old and that humans and chimpanzees share a common ancestor (see page 72 of his more recent book The Edge of Evolution).
Again, nothing personal, but when you spout such nonsense about evolution, saying things that have been thoroughly debunked many times by many people,(and most of all: debunked by reality), it hurts your credibility on anything else you say on any subject.
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Last edited by TheBicyclingGuitarist on Thu May 31, 2012 7:06 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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edgewaters
hibernating
Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 2426
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Blownmind wrote: | | edgewaters wrote: | | Also brevity has never been my strong suit, I am quite jealous of people who can say in 2 sentences what takes me 2 paragraphs - and I frequently say so, if you look through my posts. |
Congrats on writing only 2 sentences this time! |
Hahaha, thanks. It feels like a stroke of genius when I can manage to explain something precisely, with efficiency. I think I like to err on the side of precision too much. |
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