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Ambivalence
The Obvious Factor
Joined: Nov 09, 2008
Posts: 3638
Location: Peterlee (for Industry)
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 Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| SanityTheorist wrote: | | Bun wrote: | I'm a little different, two of you seem to think you can be 'swayed' one way or the other, I believe there are no different types of people (apart from cases of proven brain damage) and anyone can be anything, whether it comes to sex or to other tendencies like homocide, but I think that it's actually the norms that shape the way people behave in society.
Hence why I'm irked when people mention homosexuals are only 10%, because the fact is we all live in an heteronormative society, and in my opinion the other 90% isn't heterosexual, they enforce the social norm and earn 'rewards' (approval, social status) etc. for it. |
Interesting that you'd mention that...in ancient Greece there was a lot of cases of homosexual relations between students and their masters. That was socially enforced. |
Those were the result of society-wide misogyny. C.f. the Afghan 'police' forces.
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techn0teen
Phoenix
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Joined: Sep 15, 2010
Age: 21
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Homosexuality does have a genetic basis. Everything has a genetic basis and especially when it comes to default behavior. One cannot change one's nature but one can only suppress it. I encourage the OP to look into the ex-gay movement. It becomes clear that sexual orientation has some sort of genetic basis.
Here's some food for thought: it used to be common practice to believe that children were autistic because of their parents upbringing. And then it was discovered autism (surprise, surprise) can be caused by certain genes.
Now, I saw this in a TED talk, a genius woman has done brain scans on some children with autism and discovered a lot of them were misdiagnosed with autism. And they were having mini seizures in their brain. These mini seizures mimicked a lot of the symptoms of autism.
Saying something is the sole, one cause of something is too simple. The world is much more complex than that. Environmental factors also play a role, but I think it is far more genetically based than anything. |
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Bun
Bunnymen
Joined: Jan 09, 2012
Posts: 3250
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| So what were those kids diagnosed with eventually? seems odd to change a diagnosis because of a brain scan. |
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techn0teen
Phoenix
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Joined: Sep 15, 2010
Age: 21
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Bun wrote: | | So what were those kids diagnosed with eventually? seems odd to change a diagnosis because of a brain scan. |
The Link to the TED Talk. This could explain it a lot better than I can. |
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Ingz
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Feb 12, 2012
Age: 27
Posts: 41
Location: Iceland
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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I think there can be various reasons for people's gender preference. I know identical twins that were brought up the exact same way. One of them is gay and the other is straight. I also know other identical twins that are both gay. A girl I know has five aunts, and all of them have one gay off-spring and at least couple of straight ones.
In my case, I'm pretty sure that I was born gay. I was into girls from a pretty young age. I was bullied in school, by the girls. I've been abused by both women and men (so if anything, I should be A-sexual if that should be the reason). My parents repeatedly tried to get me to dress in skirts and dresses when I was little, and to play with dolls and the toys that some people consider to be toys for girls. They eventually gave up on it because I would have none of it. Also, my cousin is gay, and I have loads of gay relatives.
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IdahoRose
Imaginary Friend
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Joined: Feb 25, 2007
Age: 22
Posts: 18651
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| My mom thinks that my attraction to other women is the result of never being emotionally close to my dad. Dunno where she gets that idea, since she was never close to her dad either but wound up being straight. |
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Magdalena
Sea Gull
Joined: Feb 07, 2012
Posts: 205
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Pileo wrote: | | Bun wrote: | | Pileo wrote: | From my basic understanding:
Attraction is surprisingly biological. Your bodies goal, no matter your personal goal is, is to have strong and healthy children. When searching for a mate, your body is looking for someone that compliments you genetically and immune system-ly (could not think of a word). Everyone has their own signature smells and pheromones that they produce to accomplish this. Males and females, of course, produce different pheromones and smells due their sex hormones. In homosexuals, their bodies like smells and pheromones from the same sex (for the most part). Just like everything else, there are exceptions to the rules. It is possible to make changes to the brain through the epigenome and nurture. How big the changes and which makes the changes, epigenome or nuture, is up for the debate. For all we know, the epigenome is the tool nurture uses to make changes.
Personally, I don't think the changes can be that big if it's just nurture and there's no traumatic event. People have tried to nurture homosexuals out of homosexuality for centuries. You'd think it work the other way too.
Mind you, this is "find a mate" attraction and not "what you're willing to have sexual relations with". The porn industry is proof enough that people will 'do' anything and anyone.  Also, just because we don't have a genetic link now, doesn't mean we won't. There are thousands of genes to figure out and we only just begun. Not to mention it's much more important to find genes of genetic diseases than it is to find the "Gay Gene(s)". |
You might call me an idiot inwardly while reading my question, but what about the sexual attractions of people who can't smell?... |
Nah, that's a pretty good question and to be honest, I have no idea. My previous post is what I've learned in my classes and from documentaries. I am no professional by any means. However, my guess it depends on what specifically caused the person to lose their sense of smell. |
It's because our ability to detect pheromones and our ability to detect odors (such as, for example, gasoline) are not the same thing. Pheromone-detection is a different gland.
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LiendaBalla
Phoenix
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Joined: Oct 24, 2007
Age: 34
Posts: 2857
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| No. I think genetics and arousal make more difference. |
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AdamAutistic
Snowy Owl
Joined: May 02, 2012
Posts: 140
Location: Rhode Island
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| i beleive in the gay gene. most of my family is gay. |
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nick007
old-skewl fan-boy
Joined: May 05, 2010
Age: 30
Posts: 9737
Location: was Louisiana but moved in with my girlfreind in Vermont
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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I do not think sexuality is as black & white as genetic vs environmental. Saying genetic gives the impression that homosexuality could be inherited & I am not aware of any scientific evidence of a gay gene. Saying it's environmental gives the impression that being homosexual or straight is entirely based on how the person grows up. I believe numerous things can affect someones sexuality.
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mntn13
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 07, 2011
Posts: 1006
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goodiesguy
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jan 15, 2012
Age: 17
Posts: 73
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| I believe you are not born gay, and it is a choice. |
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nick007
old-skewl fan-boy
Joined: May 05, 2010
Age: 30
Posts: 9737
Location: was Louisiana but moved in with my girlfreind in Vermont
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| goodiesguy wrote: | | I believe you are not born gay, and it is a choice. |
How is that choice made? Did you suddently decide one day when you hit puberty that you were going to be straight? or did you contemplate choices a while H decided to be straight instead of gay or bi or something?
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SanityTheorist
Wandering Artist
Joined: Feb 14, 2012
Posts: 2096
Location: The Akuma Afterglow
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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These responses have been very insightful.
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stillsearching
Butterfly
Joined: Oct 13, 2011
Age: 25
Posts: 16
Location: Newport News Virginia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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Well, from my own personal experience in life, I feel that I was born this way. I grew up not even knowing what gay was, it wasn't talked about when I was younger and then when I was clued in I was under the impression that it was something that only affected men. The reason I wasn't privy to the realities of homosexuality wasn't because my parents tried to keep it from me or anything like that, there was just simply never a need to discuss it. I never asked about it.
That being said, I don't see how my enviroment contributed to me being a lesbian. I was raised in a stable family with two parents, my mother stayed home with me and my younger sister and my father was in the Air Force. There was no marital strife, no abuse, nothing. My parents were incredibly loving and spent so much time and money trying to figure out why I had such a rough go of things as a kid. (I was never diagnosed with Asperger's as a kid formally, though it was suspected) They encouraged me to do my best with the hand I'd been dealt and always made sure that I was learning something and that they were nurturing me the best that they knew how.
As far back as I can remember I had feelings for girls and a sexual attraction towards girls, but it never registered because I wasn't aware that being gay (or lesbian, rather) was something that I could be. I just knew I didn't like boys and they made me feel "icky". As a child I would tell myself that I would grow out of that "icky" feeling and be "normal" once I was a teenager. That didn't happen. I forced myself into the heteronormative mold to the point of near self destruction for many years.
It wasn't until high school that someone asked me if I could be gay. Which I denied, because, well, girls can't be gay. But eventually it started making sense. Everything I had felt growing up, the crushes, the "icky" feelings towards men and boys. Still, it was a long road out of the closet and I still struggle with accepting it.
I've always been an outcast in life, always been made fun of, always had very few friends and people to confide in and spent my entire school career being bullied for being different. If anything, that kept my homosexuality from coming out. My mind knew (subconsciously) that I didn't need one more thing to be bullied about. What I'm getting at is this- having gone through what I've gone through I would NEVER CHOOSE to be a lesbian. Never. I'm already disliked and somewhat disadvantage for not being part of the neurotypical norm so why in the world would I make myself out to be even more of an outcast? Especially in this day and age where we have people saying that all gay people should be killed by the government and such? I mean really? Who would choose that for themselves?
I've searched and searched for a reason why I'm a lesbian but honestly, there isn't one. This is who I am and this is who I've always been. I don't think it's a choice to be gay but I do think that we have a choice to acknowledge it to ourselves and then to come out of the closet. But who we are is who we are and there isn't anything you can do about that.
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