JWC
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 01, 2011
Posts: 740
Location: Macondo Wellhead
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 Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| BrandonSP wrote: | | Of course Christianity and Judaism had Middle Eastern roots just like Islam, but unlike Islam they've expanded into Europe and so are commonly perceived as Western and white. I don't think it's coincidence that Jesus and Moses are popularly portrayed in Western cartoons as white Greco-Romans whereas Muhammad is typically represented as a brown-skinned Arabian. |
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12765
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | That's absolutely correct. The notion that there was some sort of Islamic terrorist connection was entirely a fiction created by the Bush administration. Even that bloviating ignoramus Donald Trump has enough sense to know Saddam killed terrorists in his country.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Sadam's regime was terror itself. Don't take my word, just ask the Kurds.... |
I think you know I'm talking about terrorist organizations that threatened Americans, Israelis, and other other allies.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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Greb
Phoenix
Joined: May 10, 2012
Age: 41
Posts: 543
Location: Under the sea [level]
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| BrandonSP wrote: | | Greb wrote: | | JWC wrote: | | the Kurd is the word. |
Kurds are muslim. They were not attacked because religious reasons but because political/racial/cultural ones. Indeed, Kurds are much more religious than the former political party that governed Iraq in times of SH.
I just don't see the logic behind accusing of islamism a secular gouvernment and pointing as evidence the genocide of a ethnic group that is much more islamic than this gouvernment. |
The thing is, this whole American conservative hullabaloo over Islam has little to do with religion itself. It is essentially a racial conflict; they use Islam as a veil for their racism against Middle Easterners.
Of course Christianity and Judaism had Middle Eastern roots just like Islam, but unlike Islam they've expanded into Europe and so are commonly perceived as Western and white. I don't think it's coincidence that Jesus and Moses are popularly portrayed in Western cartoons as white Greco-Romans whereas Muhammad is typically represented as a brown-skinned Arabian. |
It's very speculative to make a statement about what other people think, besides being very close to unfairness: you state what other people think, something that the other person can't prove it't false. Statements should be confined to what can be evidenced, specially if this involves other people's thoughts or supposed real intentions.
By the way, JC is not often represented as Greco-Roman. Usual look in paintings is north-european, that he's clearly not. Taking into account that painting art was developped mainly in the north of Europe from Renaissance on it can be explained as a painters drawing JC as belonging to their same ethnic group. |
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Raptor
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 09, 2007
Posts: 4500
Location: Southeast U.S.A.
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Kraichgauer wrote: | | Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | That's absolutely correct. The notion that there was some sort of Islamic terrorist connection was entirely a fiction created by the Bush administration. Even that bloviating ignoramus Donald Trump has enough sense to know Saddam killed terrorists in his country.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Sadam's regime was terror itself. Don't take my word, just ask the Kurds.... |
I think you know I'm talking about terrorist organizations that threatened Americans, Israelis, and other other allies.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
If Iraq weren't part of your beloved Islamic world you would have screamed outrage over sadam's campaign against the Kurds. I guess anything goes as long as the perpetrators pray with their butts in the air..... |
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12765
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | | Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | That's absolutely correct. The notion that there was some sort of Islamic terrorist connection was entirely a fiction created by the Bush administration. Even that bloviating ignoramus Donald Trump has enough sense to know Saddam killed terrorists in his country.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Sadam's regime was terror itself. Don't take my word, just ask the Kurds.... |
I think you know I'm talking about terrorist organizations that threatened Americans, Israelis, and other other allies.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
If Iraq weren't part of your beloved Islamic world you would have screamed outrage over sadam's campaign against the Kurds. I guess anything goes as long as the perpetrators pray with their butts in the air..... |
Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.
Incidentally, I am in no way a defender of Saddam Husein, and the world is doubtlessly better now that he's gone. But considering the cost to our country regarding removing him from power, and that the Bush administration had to lie to get us into a second Gulf War, I think I and others are more than justified in being critical.
By the way, most Kurds are Muslims, too.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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Raptor
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 09, 2007
Posts: 4500
Location: Southeast U.S.A.
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Kraichgauer wrote: | | Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | | Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | That's absolutely correct. The notion that there was some sort of Islamic terrorist connection was entirely a fiction created by the Bush administration. Even that bloviating ignoramus Donald Trump has enough sense to know Saddam killed terrorists in his country.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Sadam's regime was terror itself. Don't take my word, just ask the Kurds.... |
I think you know I'm talking about terrorist organizations that threatened Americans, Israelis, and other other allies.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
If Iraq weren't part of your beloved Islamic world you would have screamed outrage over sadam's campaign against the Kurds. I guess anything goes as long as the perpetrators pray with their butts in the air..... |
Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.
Incidentally, I am in no way a defender of Saddam Husein, and the world is doubtlessly better now that he's gone. But considering the cost to our country regarding removing him from power, and that the Bush administration had to lie to get us into a second Gulf War, I think I and others are more than justified in being critical.
By the way, most Kurds are Muslims, too.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
| Quote: | | Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans. |
I didn't say that you were one but that you seem to have a disproportionate admiration or whatever it is for them.
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29316
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Raptor wrote: |
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....
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No I don't. Neither of you have wronged me.
ruveyn |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| My only beef with liberals is simple trying to create gun controle laws. When their is a such thing as a right to bare arms. |
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12765
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | | Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | | Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | That's absolutely correct. The notion that there was some sort of Islamic terrorist connection was entirely a fiction created by the Bush administration. Even that bloviating ignoramus Donald Trump has enough sense to know Saddam killed terrorists in his country.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Sadam's regime was terror itself. Don't take my word, just ask the Kurds.... |
I think you know I'm talking about terrorist organizations that threatened Americans, Israelis, and other other allies.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
If Iraq weren't part of your beloved Islamic world you would have screamed outrage over sadam's campaign against the Kurds. I guess anything goes as long as the perpetrators pray with their butts in the air..... |
Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.
Incidentally, I am in no way a defender of Saddam Husein, and the world is doubtlessly better now that he's gone. But considering the cost to our country regarding removing him from power, and that the Bush administration had to lie to get us into a second Gulf War, I think I and others are more than justified in being critical.
By the way, most Kurds are Muslims, too.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
| Quote: | | Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans. |
I didn't say that you were one but that you seem to have a disproportionate admiration or whatever it is for them.
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....
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I don't have a disproportionate admiration for Muslims or the Middle East. It might be because I know what it is to be bullied and picked on that I find myself automatically taking the defense of whoever is the underdog. And in this case, Muslims in general have been taking a beating in this thread.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12765
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Raptor wrote: |
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....
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No I don't. Neither of you have wronged me.
ruveyn |
For the record, I never took your jabs all that seriously.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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Raptor
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 09, 2007
Posts: 4500
Location: Southeast U.S.A.
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Raptor wrote: |
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....
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No I don't. Neither of you have wronged me.
ruveyn |
I was joking..........  |
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Raptor
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 09, 2007
Posts: 4500
Location: Southeast U.S.A.
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Kraichgauer wrote: | | Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | | Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | | Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | That's absolutely correct. The notion that there was some sort of Islamic terrorist connection was entirely a fiction created by the Bush administration. Even that bloviating ignoramus Donald Trump has enough sense to know Saddam killed terrorists in his country.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Sadam's regime was terror itself. Don't take my word, just ask the Kurds.... |
I think you know I'm talking about terrorist organizations that threatened Americans, Israelis, and other other allies.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
If Iraq weren't part of your beloved Islamic world you would have screamed outrage over sadam's campaign against the Kurds. I guess anything goes as long as the perpetrators pray with their butts in the air..... |
Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.
Incidentally, I am in no way a defender of Saddam Husein, and the world is doubtlessly better now that he's gone. But considering the cost to our country regarding removing him from power, and that the Bush administration had to lie to get us into a second Gulf War, I think I and others are more than justified in being critical.
By the way, most Kurds are Muslims, too.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
| Quote: | | Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans. |
I didn't say that you were one but that you seem to have a disproportionate admiration or whatever it is for them.
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....
. |
I don't have a disproportionate admiration for Muslims or the Middle East. It might be because I know what it is to be bullied and picked on that I find myself automatically taking the defense of whoever is the underdog. And in this case, Muslims in general have been taking a beating in this thread.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
I'm gonna wrap up my part of it with this:
As a whole they are a group we shouldn't be turning our backs on even if they are US citizens.
If they are not US citizens with no specific reason to be here they need to be going home or somewhere else even if at bayonet point.
Islam is not a western friendly religion and their track record in the US and abroad speaks for itself.
That's my position on this and will continue to be. |
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marshall
Under the whirlwind
Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Posts: 9212
Location: Western Michigan
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | | Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | That's absolutely correct. The notion that there was some sort of Islamic terrorist connection was entirely a fiction created by the Bush administration. Even that bloviating ignoramus Donald Trump has enough sense to know Saddam killed terrorists in his country.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Sadam's regime was terror itself. Don't take my word, just ask the Kurds.... |
I think you know I'm talking about terrorist organizations that threatened Americans, Israelis, and other other allies.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
If Iraq weren't part of your beloved Islamic world you would have screamed outrage over sadam's campaign against the Kurds. I guess anything goes as long as the perpetrators pray with their butts in the air..... |
That happened in the 1980s. If that was the justification, then why did the US decide to wait until 2003 to invade Iraq and dispose of Saddam's regime?
I also don't get where you come up with the idea that anyone who opposes the US invasion must tacitly condone the actions perpetrated by Saddam in 1988. It only shows you have no comprehension of the reasons why anyone would object to your beloved leader's decision to go to war under nebulous and dishonest pretenses. Either that or you're just trolling. If that's the case then I might ask why do you hate poor people? Why do you want to trash the earth and ruin the livelihood of future generations? Let people without health insurance die on the streets? Also Saddam is spelled with two d's. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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1. Liberal policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve problems.
Okay my problem with this belief is I do not need the Government to solve my problems.
2. Conservative policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems.
Okay I can understand that is a good thing but they only emphasize it which is odd. |
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12765
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | | Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | | Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | | Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | That's absolutely correct. The notion that there was some sort of Islamic terrorist connection was entirely a fiction created by the Bush administration. Even that bloviating ignoramus Donald Trump has enough sense to know Saddam killed terrorists in his country.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Sadam's regime was terror itself. Don't take my word, just ask the Kurds.... |
I think you know I'm talking about terrorist organizations that threatened Americans, Israelis, and other other allies.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
If Iraq weren't part of your beloved Islamic world you would have screamed outrage over sadam's campaign against the Kurds. I guess anything goes as long as the perpetrators pray with their butts in the air..... |
Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans.
Incidentally, I am in no way a defender of Saddam Husein, and the world is doubtlessly better now that he's gone. But considering the cost to our country regarding removing him from power, and that the Bush administration had to lie to get us into a second Gulf War, I think I and others are more than justified in being critical.
By the way, most Kurds are Muslims, too.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
| Quote: | | Beloved Islamic world? Ask ruveyn, and he'll tell you that I'm partial to German Lutherans. |
I didn't say that you were one but that you seem to have a disproportionate admiration or whatever it is for them.
Why ask Ruveyn? He hates both of us....
. |
I don't have a disproportionate admiration for Muslims or the Middle East. It might be because I know what it is to be bullied and picked on that I find myself automatically taking the defense of whoever is the underdog. And in this case, Muslims in general have been taking a beating in this thread.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
I'm gonna wrap up my part of it with this:
As a whole they are a group we shouldn't be turning our backs on even if they are US citizens.
If they are not US citizens with no specific reason to be here they need to be going home or somewhere else even if at bayonet point.
Islam is not a western friendly religion and their track record in the US and abroad speaks for itself.
That's my position on this and will continue to be. |
You won't turn your back on Muslim Americans, because they're hostile to the U.S., huh?
If you recall, they had said that about Americans with leftist affiliations during the Red Scare. They also had said that about Japanese Americans during WWII, and my own German American forebears during WWI. That assumption to paint whole groups was wrong then, and it's wrong today regarding all Muslim Americans.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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