Poke
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 Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:37 pm Post subject: Asperger's and attachment |
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I wonder how many people realize that the refrigerator mother theory's successor, attachment, is taken very seriously today?
I was first clued into this one when my fiancee and I were watching a news magazine show on neuropsychological disorders in children. The first child they featured had "classic" autism. After watching the beginning of the second segment, it was clear to both of us that the child in question was textbook Asperger's. I made a comment about being willing to make some absurd bet that Asperger's was this child's diagnosis. Imagine our surprise when they were stated to have Reactive Attachment Disorder. This set my BS detector off immediately. Come to find out that attachment theory, which is essentially just a twist on "refrigerator mother ", is widely accepted and supported by empirical investigation.
Think about it for a minute. Autism, in its purest form, is simply a behavioral profile. How is it, then, that we feel so confident to say that it can't be caused by bad parenting? There's a good answer to that question, and it explains why autism is such a tricky concept. Despite the fact that it's merely a behavioral profile and thus applicable to any neurological dysfunction, regardless of cause, that produces autistic behavior, the concept of autism is informed by our understanding of the relationship between genetics, breeding, and brain science, all of which strongly indicate that severe neurological dysfunction is most often a matter of genetic inheritance. So we find ourselves in a position where we can assume etiology even when the condition remains quite ambiguous, and then turn around and deny other causal factors! Quite the neat little trick there, right? I mean, the nature of autism basically demands this kind of approach, but it's at least a convenience and probably a blessing for parents with children who fit the behavioral profile of autism to hear that their child's condition is, for all intents and purposes, a "biological", neurological one, because this somehow relives them of the possibility that they might have impeded their child's development--as if the human brain simply can't be impacted in material way as a result of stimulus received via the mind!
So, back to RAD. I don't know how severe it gets, but it's clear to me that, given the acceptance of attachment theory, that mild autism (as a fundamentally behavioral condition) can be the result of inferior parenting. This isn't just a hypothesis, it's the undeniable truth if you accept that a) attachment theory is essentially true and supported by empirical study (however you tease out the specifics) and b) understand why autism is both "anything that looks like autism" and something that we know the ultimate cause of, even if we can only express it in generalities.
Soon it becomes a question of how much worth autism has as a guilt-relieving measure. In many cases, it's a noble lie. |
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Callista
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Well, there's been research done on autism and attachment, and it seems that autistic children are as likely to be securely attached to their primary caregivers as neurotypical children are. The only difference is that they may not communicate their distress as obviously when Mom leaves, and may not notice that she has left. If they notice, they're as distressed as any other child. Measure distress by whether the child's blood pressure goes up when they notice their mom leaving, and they're identical to NTs.
Another bit of evidence against the refrigerator-mom theory is that autism has a high heritability. That means that it's in the genes, and more strongly so than any other childhood neurological disorder that isn't caused by a single identifiable genetic glitch. Whether that means a new mutation or whether it's passed on from the parents, an autistic child's tendency to be autistic is mostly determined at conception or very shortly thereafter, during those first cell divisions.
Reactive attachment disorder is a real thing. It's a real problem for foster kids and kids who have spent their early years in institutions as well as those exposed to parental neglect. And it's something that does have to be ruled out when autism is suspected. But it's not the same thing--they're distinct conditions. RAD can even express itself in a sort of indiscriminate friendliness, willingness to attach to anyone, willingness to hug strangers, insistence on attention and constant interaction--something that, while it is an obvious social impairment, looks quite different from the usually reticent or clumsy autistic child.
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cathylynn
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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attachment disorder is very different from autism. folks with RAD lie, cheat, steal and hurt others all without the slightest bit of guilt. folks on the autism spectrum may hurt others by not understanding social situations. folks with RAD understand. they just don't care.
i know someone with RAD. she is trouble from start to finish. i also know several folks who have AS. they are basically nice people who have trouble fitting in. |
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Callista
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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RAD isn't automatically "trouble", though. I mean, it can be; but it doesn't have to be. If you meet other people with RAD, don't judge them by the one nasty person you've already met.
And for that matter there are Aspie sociopaths out there. At least we have an advantage versus them--their poor social skills make it harder for them to hide their basically misanthropic nature.
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Mdyar
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:37 am Post subject: |
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On a similar note: Bipolar can be induced in rat models by stress. Given enough shock they convulse spontaneously when in the shock area - in other words they are conditioned with 'shock stress' in a certain location. With time they convulse on a regular cycle regardless of their location or proximity to the stress area. Thus the trauma is learned and encoded.
Bipolar people initially have a 'trauma' associated with their first episode, and remain symptom free until another; but with time this takes a self perpetuating course and a trauma event in no longer needed for the trigger, hence "rapid cycling." Scientist found that anticonvulsants mend the rat models, and crossover to humans - a fix. It's an (imperfect) nonhomologous model, due to 'animal vs human analogy,' as people can tune out physical pain but the animal cannot -- but the same drugs work for both groups.
Not all folks get Bipolar from stress, though; a probable genetic component?
And some research suggests BPD needs a trigger or trauma to 'set it off.'
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vanhalenkurtz
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:39 am Post subject: |
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I've always had a certain susceptibility to 'refrigerator mother' theory because it is me.
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Poke
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| Callista wrote: | | Another bit of evidence against the refrigerator-mom theory is that autism has a high heritability. |
Did you read my post?
Sometimes it's so difficult to just sit there and wait for someone who understands you. |
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Heidi80
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| There might be some communication problems between an autistic child and a NT parent, but that's not because the mother is emotionally cold, but because a child with autism has troubles communicating his wants/needs. So the communication problem between parent and child is an effect of the child's autism, not the cause of it. |
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Callista
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| Poke wrote: | | Callista wrote: | | Another bit of evidence against the refrigerator-mom theory is that autism has a high heritability. |
Did you read my post?
Sometimes it's so difficult to just sit there and wait for someone who understands you. |
The high heritability means that other causal factors are necessarily minor factors. Since there's no real evidence for the refrigerator-mother idea, I don't think it's even a minor factor.
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Poke
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:13 am Post subject: |
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This is why I asked if you read my post, as it seems that I've already addressed these points.
| Callista wrote: | | The high heritability means that other causal factors are necessarily minor factors. |
This statement might true in a very general sense, but when you look at the actual individuals whose behaviors make up the generality of "autism", heritability isn't even a factor in some cases.
Take intellectual disability, which a diagnostic label that's very similar to autism in nature and scope. It's almost a sister condition. Now, is intellectual disability in general mostly a product of genetics? Yes. Does that mean it doesn't also come from car accidents, difficult births, exposure to certain substances, etc.? No, of course not.
So when we say intellectual disability, or autism, we are talking about what are most often conditions with a genetic basis, but ones that can be arrived at by other means.
Please note I am not suggesting that attachment (or any similar theory) explains all cases of autism, or even most of them. I think it does explain some of it, though, and in some cases it can probably be considered the main causal factor.
| Quote: | | Since there's no real evidence for the refrigerator-mother idea, I don't think it's even a minor factor. |
Very simply:
-No one is saying that there's evidence for the "refrigerator mother" theory because that theory has been replaced by (or more accurately, evolved into) attachment theory. I would compare this to the modern evolutionary synthesis, which was arrived at only after a very long series of less accurate, but similar concepts, going all the way back to ancient Athens. No one takes some weird transmutation theory from 150 years ago seriously anymore, but the theory of evolution is the cornerstone of all biology.
-There's loads of evidence for attachment theory. It has gained general acceptance.
-Clearly, RAD is in at least some cases a form of high functioning autism. |
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jonny23
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:34 am Post subject: |
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There seems to be many physical attributes (dexterity, abnormal gait, etc) and brain wiring differences in people with Autism. It sounds like you are suggesting that you could meet the criteria for Autism with only the physiological symptoms and perhaps at the moment that is true but I would point out that someone who only meets the physiological profile may only appear to have Autism and only meet the criteria because our only method for testing at the moment is physiological. If at some point the method for diagnosis becomes a brain scan lets say then that could change.
Oh forgot to mention the sensory issues as well. |
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Poke
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| jonny23 wrote: | | There seems to be many physical attributes (dexterity, abnormal gait, etc) and brain wiring differences in people with Autism. It sounds like you are suggesting that you could meet the criteria for Autism with only the behavioral symptoms and perhaps at the moment that is true but I would point out that someone who only meets the behavioral profile may only appear to have Autism and only meet the criteria because our only method for testing at the moment is behavioral. If at some point the method for diagnosis becomes a brain scan lets say then that could change. |
I swapped out "physiological" for "behavioral" as I believe that's what you're really getting at here.
You have to understand that autism is diagnosed behaviorally not merely on account of medical and technological limitations, but because autism is defined in behavioral terms--it is, by nature, a behavioral condition.
There's no point in trying to develop a brain scan to diagnose autism (aside from predictive, early intervention related purposes, of course) because a person who doesn't engage in autistic behavior is not autistic, no matter what condition his brain is in. See? Autism is ultimately a matter of acting a certain way. If you don't act that way, you're not autistic.
VERY simply put, autism is not a "brain condition" per se, it's a behavior profile that doctors take as ample evidence of serious neuropsychological insult.
But, once again, this is where heredity steps in, because it's well known that autism is a highly heritable condition, right? Yes, in general, autism is a matter of heredity. But the type of neuropsychological damage that results in autism can be sustained in other ways, too. So you can quite rightly discuss autism as a phenomenon of heredity while your next door neighbor, on account of abuse, has cause their child to be autistic when they otherwise maybe wouldn't have been. |
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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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RAD is NOT Refrigerator Mother. RAD is found in children who experience removal from their parents. They are raised in either orphanages or multiple foster homes. How is this Refrigerator Mother? The parents are simply not there for whatever reason. They are not present and cold. They are just absent.
The child is bounced around so much, or is neglected in an orphanage or shelter, they never get a chance to form a bond with a caregiver. They do not trust relationships with people because of this.
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Poke
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote: | RAD is NOT Refrigerator Mother. RAD is found in children who experience removal from their parents. They are raised in either orphanages or multiple foster homes. How is this Refrigerator Mother? The parents are simply not there for whatever reason. They are not present and cold. They are just absent.
The child is bounced around so much, or is neglected in an orphanage or shelter, they never get a chance to form a bond with a caregiver. They do not trust relationships with people because of this. |
Read up on what refrigerator mother theory is, how it relates to attachment, and what RAD is. |
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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| Poke wrote: | | ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote: | RAD is NOT Refrigerator Mother. RAD is found in children who experience removal from their parents. They are raised in either orphanages or multiple foster homes. How is this Refrigerator Mother? The parents are simply not there for whatever reason. They are not present and cold. They are just absent.
The child is bounced around so much, or is neglected in an orphanage or shelter, they never get a chance to form a bond with a caregiver. They do not trust relationships with people because of this. |
Read up on what refrigerator mother theory is, how it relates to attachment, and what RAD is. |
I know what RAD is. It isn't a simple matter of saying a mother is bad and that's why the child has a condition. RAD is caused by extreme neglect, like the kind found in institutions or orphanages in places like Romania, back before they reformed. Yes, that kind of extreme neglect can cause developmental problems and disorders. This is why it is not recommended that young children go from foster home to foster home or stay in shelters. Young children meaning under the age of 5.
It is possible for RAD to occur when children live with their parents but the neglect would have to be severe and constant. Most parents do not neglect their children to that extent though it is possible. With all the interventions and supports out there, it doesn't happen that often.
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