SpiritBlooms
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 15, 2009
Posts: 1024
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 Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Bloodheart wrote: | | It is a social thing, it's not that they want you to compliment them so much as that socially women are brought-up to have low self-esteem and they also feel they have to put themselves down as it's seen as negative if they speak positively about themselves. |
This. I rarely insult myself to others. But I know that as a female I grew up with fairly low self-esteem. I think many women are brought up to think less of ourselves. I grew up with the message that my dad's interests and masculine endeavors in general were more important than feminine ones. My dad fed this by being able to brag a lot and demanding certain privileges at home. (The best chair, the best piece of meat at dinner, and commanding attention on his accomplishments.) My mom fed into this by being rather selfless and making sure he got what he wanted - though now that I'm older I wonder if it wasn't mostly to keep the peace. I've also noticed that men seem able to brag more easily about their job qualifications, while women tend to say less convincing things, such as that they think they could do a good job, and not really be persuasive about it. Not all women, of course, and not all men. It's more a tendency.
The insulting oneself to others might sometimes be a way of attempting to blend in - comparing one's own flaws with others, in other words expecting a response like "oh, me too!" - and sometimes a way of getting reassurance that it's okay to be how they are, even if it's not perfect. |
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NicoleG
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Age: 36
Posts: 661
Location: Dallas-Fort Worth
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe90 wrote: | But with women (like my mum), I always fall into this conversation:-
Mum: I look so fat
Me: No you're not
Mum: Yes I am, look
Me: You're not fat at all, how can you be?
Mum: Look here, I have all this flab
Me: That doesn't mean you're fat
Mum: And look how big my bum is
Me: All right, you're fat
Mum: Am I? You really think I am????
That's like a broken record thing. |
\
That's a classic trap. You can't win if you state, "No, you're not."
Instead, state your opinion or question their opinion, versus arguing their opinion. Let them have their opinion, even if you disagree with it. There's no point in trying to argue it with them with the goal of trying to change their mind. There's a fine difference between stating or questioning an opinion and arguing an opinion, and if you can master it, such conversations will go better for you.
"I don't think you look fat."
"You don't look fat to me."
"You really think you look fat?" |
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Scatmaster
Blue Jay
Joined: Feb 03, 2012
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| SpiritBlooms wrote: | | Bloodheart wrote: | | It is a social thing, it's not that they want you to compliment them so much as that socially women are brought-up to have low self-esteem and they also feel they have to put themselves down as it's seen as negative if they speak positively about themselves. |
This. I rarely insult myself to others. But I know that as a female I grew up with fairly low self-esteem. I think many women are brought up to think less of ourselves. I grew up with the message that my dad's interests and masculine endeavors in general were more important than feminine ones. My dad fed this by being able to brag a lot and demanding certain privileges at home. (The best chair, the best piece of meat at dinner, and commanding attention on his accomplishments.) My mom fed into this by being rather selfless and making sure he got what he wanted - though now that I'm older I wonder if it wasn't mostly to keep the peace. I've also noticed that men seem able to brag more easily about their job qualifications, while women tend to say less convincing things, such as that they think they could do a good job, and not really be persuasive about it. Not all women, of course, and not all men. It's more a tendency.
The insulting oneself to others might sometimes be a way of attempting to blend in - comparing one's own flaws with others, in other words expecting a response like "oh, me too!" - and sometimes a way of getting reassurance that it's okay to be how they are, even if it's not perfect. |
Wow, that's a pretty good way of putting it.
| Sweetleaf wrote: | | I can't say I never insult myself, I get pretty down on myself...not sure exactly what the right response would be. Though I am typically afraid of pissing people off when I get that way. |
Yeah... I have a pretty bad opinion of myself. Tend to think that I am genuinely worse than others. How do you convince someone out of that? |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ZX_SpectrumDisorder wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | I can't say I never insult myself, I get pretty down on myself...not sure exactly what the right response would be. Though I am typically afraid of pissing people off when I get that way. |
I don't think these are the same, Sweetleaf. This is just fishing for compliments. |
Yeah I guess that's a little different, not sure what exactly the correct response for that is...rather then disagreeing with them or just not having much of a response.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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NicoleG
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Age: 36
Posts: 661
Location: Dallas-Fort Worth
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| SpiritBlooms wrote: | | and sometimes a way of getting reassurance that it's okay to be how they are, even if it's not perfect. |
It took me a long time and quite a lot of honest self-evaluation to no longer need external validation. It's the tougher road to find, but once you do, it's the easier route to walk along. |
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ZX_SpectrumDisorder
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 25, 2012
Posts: 1608
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | ZX_SpectrumDisorder wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | I can't say I never insult myself, I get pretty down on myself...not sure exactly what the right response would be. Though I am typically afraid of pissing people off when I get that way. |
I don't think these are the same, Sweetleaf. This is just fishing for compliments. |
Yeah I guess that's a little different, not sure what exactly the correct response for that is...rather then disagreeing with them or just not having much of a response. |
The correct response is 'shut up, you look fantastic'. Then change the subject. |
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hartzofspace
Red Dragon
Joined: Apr 15, 2005
Posts: 7577
Location: On the Road Less Traveled
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ZX_SpectrumDisorder wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | ZX_SpectrumDisorder wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | I can't say I never insult myself, I get pretty down on myself...not sure exactly what the right response would be. Though I am typically afraid of pissing people off when I get that way. |
I don't think these are the same, Sweetleaf. This is just fishing for compliments. |
Yeah I guess that's a little different, not sure what exactly the correct response for that is...rather then disagreeing with them or just not having much of a response. |
The correct response is 'shut up, you look fantastic'. Then change the subject. |
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Dreams are renewable. No matter what our age or condition, there are still untapped possibilities within us and new beauty waiting to be born.
-- Dr. Dale Turner |
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mds_02
Skank
Joined: Sep 10, 2011
Posts: 1945
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| ZX_SpectrumDisorder wrote: | | Lucywlf wrote: | | It's just a social thing; if women insult their own appearance, they want you to disagree with them/compliment them. Most women think that everybody knows the routine and get upset when people don't follow it. I agree that it's silly, but there you are. |
Heh. It really is. I like to turn the tables with that one. |
Can't help doing that sometimes. When someone starts with the self-deprecation, I'll agree with them and provide helpful examples that prove their point.
Gf actually finds it reassuring. Like, she knows that if I really thought she was gaining too much weight or that she was lacking in intelligence or something, I wouldn't joke about it, that would just be mean.
If she says "oh god, look how fat I am" and I try to reassure her, she'll take that as me thinking she has a valid concern. But if I reply with "I know, I'm embarrassed to be seen with you" she knows I think she's being ridiculous which, ultimately, is what she wants me to think when she's acting like that. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| ZX_SpectrumDisorder wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | ZX_SpectrumDisorder wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | I can't say I never insult myself, I get pretty down on myself...not sure exactly what the right response would be. Though I am typically afraid of pissing people off when I get that way. |
I don't think these are the same, Sweetleaf. This is just fishing for compliments. |
Yeah I guess that's a little different, not sure what exactly the correct response for that is...rather then disagreeing with them or just not having much of a response. |
The correct response is 'shut up, you look fantastic'. Then change the subject. |
I honestly cannot picture using the word fantastic...and well what if they don't look that way?
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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NicoleG
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Age: 36
Posts: 661
Location: Dallas-Fort Worth
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | ZX_SpectrumDisorder wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | ZX_SpectrumDisorder wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | I can't say I never insult myself, I get pretty down on myself...not sure exactly what the right response would be. Though I am typically afraid of pissing people off when I get that way. |
I don't think these are the same, Sweetleaf. This is just fishing for compliments. |
Yeah I guess that's a little different, not sure what exactly the correct response for that is...rather then disagreeing with them or just not having much of a response. |
The correct response is 'shut up, you look fantastic'. Then change the subject. |
I honestly cannot picture using the word fantastic...and well what if they don't look that way? |
Based on your posts, you strike me as someone who can easily get away with giving an aloof answer without causing a commotion. I can totally picture you saying something like, "I don't know. Why are you asking me?"
They're fishing for a compliment because they are fishing for external validation. You don't always have to feel obligated to give them that. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| NicoleG wrote: |
Based on your posts, you strike me as someone who can easily get away with giving an aloof answer without causing a commotion. I can totally picture you saying something like, "I don't know. Why are you asking me?"
They're fishing for a compliment because they are fishing for external validation. You don't always have to feel obligated to give them that. |
Yeah probably, but then I have to admit I am not the type people usually go to, to seek those sorts of compliments or external validation anyways. But I probably would end up saying something like that. I mean my typical attire is band t-shirts and whatever pants I feel like wearing....so how am I supposed to know if something looks good on someone based on current fashion standards when I don't even know what they are and I might note even agree with them.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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NicoleG
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Age: 36
Posts: 661
Location: Dallas-Fort Worth
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | NicoleG wrote: |
Based on your posts, you strike me as someone who can easily get away with giving an aloof answer without causing a commotion. I can totally picture you saying something like, "I don't know. Why are you asking me?"
They're fishing for a compliment because they are fishing for external validation. You don't always have to feel obligated to give them that. |
Yeah probably, but then I have to admit I am not the type people usually go to, to seek those sorts of compliments or external validation anyways. But I probably would end up saying something like that. I mean my typical attire is band t-shirts and whatever pants I feel like wearing....so how am I supposed to know if something looks good on someone based on current fashion standards when I don't even know what they are and I might note even agree with them. |
Exactly! The type of people that ask for such external validation are not going to go fishing in a pond with no fish if they can help it. If they are asking you, they are more likely to not know you that well, or they will soon get to know that you aren't into validating them all that often, and so then they'll stop asking and find someone else to bug about it (because it's unlikely that they will stop looking for the validation in general just because you aren't providing it). Kind of funny how that works out. |
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smudge
Your worst nightmare
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Joined: Sep 07, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 2118
Location: London
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by smudge on Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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roccoslife
Toucan
Joined: Jul 13, 2011
Age: 29
Posts: 293
Location: Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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In all honestly I wouldnt have described you as fat when I met you, you were just normal woman sized.
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Your Aspie score: 82 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 107 of 200
You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits
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smudge
Your worst nightmare
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Joined: Sep 07, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 2118
Location: London
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by smudge on Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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