McAnulty
Toucan
Joined: May 09, 2012
Posts: 258
Location: Montreal
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 Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| The professionals using this on kids should be convicted of child abuse, pure and simple. |
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Longshanks
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 03, 2012
Posts: 513
Location: At an undisclosed airbase at Shangri-la
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:51 am Post subject: |
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What I read supra makes me ill. It reminds me of some of the initiations that went on in West Point during the 1840's. In the same token, once in a while, one has to endure torture to save a life. I shall explain. My sister was born without the capability to produce white blood cells - what is known a s pre-natal immune deficiency. This was back in 1971. We discovered she had it when she broke out with smallpox after she had been given the vaccination at age 2. After 23 operations including 3 thymus gland transplants, she was at death's door. Then, in desperation, Dr. Richard Hong of the University of Wisconsin Hospital started taking blood tests of my mom, dad, brother and me. Then, just me. They took so many blood tests that I had needle tracks on my arms. When the veins collapsed, they went into my neck. I was only 8 and I was made fun of at school because everyone thought I was on drugs. Then, they did it. In February 1973, I became the first bone marrow donor in the history of the State of Wisconsin and the second in the world. I am also the only person in the world to have donated twice - both to my sister. Imagine railroad spikes being driven though your bones - that's what it feels like. They took it from my hips, thighs, and sternum. But all I wanted was my sister alive. Today, she is a school teacher in Iowa and is married with 2 kids. I saved not only her life, but my niece and nephew's lives - and their descendants besides. Today, extracting bone marrow is so much easier. I feel like Neil Armstrong after he went to the moon. So you see, depending on how you look at it, sometimes torture is necessary.
Longshanks
_________________
Supporter of the Brian Terry Foundation @ www.honorbrianterry.com. Special Agent Brian Terry (1970-2010) was murdered as a direct result of Operation Fast & Furious - which Barry O won't discuss - wonder why? |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14794
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| Longshanks wrote: | What I read supra makes me ill. It reminds me of some of the initiations that went on in West Point during the 1840's. In the same token, once in a while, one has to endure torture to save a life. I shall explain. My sister was born without the capability to produce white blood cells - what is known a s pre-natal immune deficiency. This was back in 1971. We discovered she had it when she broke out with smallpox after she had been given the vaccination at age 2. After 23 operations including 3 thymus gland transplants, she was at death's door. Then, in desperation, Dr. Richard Hong of the University of Wisconsin Hospital started taking blood tests of my mom, dad, brother and me. Then, just me. They took so many blood tests that I had needle tracks on my arms. When the veins collapsed, they went into my neck. I was only 8 and I was made fun of at school because everyone thought I was on drugs. Then, they did it. In February 1973, I became the first bone marrow donor in the history of the State of Wisconsin and the second in the world. I am also the only person in the world to have donated twice - both to my sister. Imagine railroad spikes being driven though your bones - that's what it feels like. They took it from my hips, thighs, and sternum. But all I wanted was my sister alive. Today, she is a school teacher in Iowa and is married with 2 kids. I saved not only her life, but my niece and nephew's lives - and their descendants besides. Today, extracting bone marrow is so much easier. I feel like Neil Armstrong after he went to the moon. So you see, depending on how you look at it, sometimes torture is necessary.
Longshanks |
With all due respect I see what you just described as very different then encouraging bleach as a treatment to 'cure' autism. I mean we are talking about kids being forced to ingest a toxic chemical in the hope their autism will go away. There is no justification for that, autism is not a life threatening illness its a neurological disorder that makes our brains work differntly.......ingesting bleach however is life threatening.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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Longshanks
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 03, 2012
Posts: 513
Location: At an undisclosed airbase at Shangri-la
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | Longshanks wrote: | What I read supra makes me ill. It reminds me of some of the initiations that went on in West Point during the 1840's. In the same token, once in a while, one has to endure torture to save a life. I shall explain. My sister was born without the capability to produce white blood cells - what is known a s pre-natal immune deficiency. This was back in 1971. We discovered she had it when she broke out with smallpox after she had been given the vaccination at age 2. After 23 operations including 3 thymus gland transplants, she was at death's door. Then, in desperation, Dr. Richard Hong of the University of Wisconsin Hospital started taking blood tests of my mom, dad, brother and me. Then, just me. They took so many blood tests that I had needle tracks on my arms. When the veins collapsed, they went into my neck. I was only 8 and I was made fun of at school because everyone thought I was on drugs. Then, they did it. In February 1973, I became the first bone marrow donor in the history of the State of Wisconsin and the second in the world. I am also the only person in the world to have donated twice - both to my sister. Imagine railroad spikes being driven though your bones - that's what it feels like. They took it from my hips, thighs, and sternum. But all I wanted was my sister alive. Today, she is a school teacher in Iowa and is married with 2 kids. I saved not only her life, but my niece and nephew's lives - and their descendants besides. Today, extracting bone marrow is so much easier. I feel like Neil Armstrong after he went to the moon. So you see, depending on how you look at it, sometimes torture is necessary.
Longshanks |
With all due respect I see what you just described as very different then encouraging bleach as a treatment to 'cure' autism. I mean we are talking about kids being forced to ingest a toxic chemical in the hope their autism will go away. There is no justification for that, autism is not a life threatening illness its a neurological disorder that makes our brains work differntly.......ingesting bleach however is life threatening. |
You are missing the forest for the trees, Sweetleaf, and I really don't appreciate you insulting my intelligence like that. Nothing in my post condones those kinds of treatments. How inhumane do you think I am? What is wrong with you? My point is, from personal experience, is that sometimes pain is necessary that a cure may be found - and seing as I now have to spell it out - under reasonable medical tenants. Don't ever insult me like that again!
Longshanks
_________________
Supporter of the Brian Terry Foundation @ www.honorbrianterry.com. Special Agent Brian Terry (1970-2010) was murdered as a direct result of Operation Fast & Furious - which Barry O won't discuss - wonder why? |
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Delphiki
Launchie
Joined: Apr 15, 2012
Age: 23
Posts: 1350
Location: My own version of reality
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| Longshanks wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | Longshanks wrote: | What I read supra makes me ill. It reminds me of some of the initiations that went on in West Point during the 1840's. In the same token, once in a while, one has to endure torture to save a life. I shall explain. My sister was born without the capability to produce white blood cells - what is known a s pre-natal immune deficiency. This was back in 1971. We discovered she had it when she broke out with smallpox after she had been given the vaccination at age 2. After 23 operations including 3 thymus gland transplants, she was at death's door. Then, in desperation, Dr. Richard Hong of the University of Wisconsin Hospital started taking blood tests of my mom, dad, brother and me. Then, just me. They took so many blood tests that I had needle tracks on my arms. When the veins collapsed, they went into my neck. I was only 8 and I was made fun of at school because everyone thought I was on drugs. Then, they did it. In February 1973, I became the first bone marrow donor in the history of the State of Wisconsin and the second in the world. I am also the only person in the world to have donated twice - both to my sister. Imagine railroad spikes being driven though your bones - that's what it feels like. They took it from my hips, thighs, and sternum. But all I wanted was my sister alive. Today, she is a school teacher in Iowa and is married with 2 kids. I saved not only her life, but my niece and nephew's lives - and their descendants besides. Today, extracting bone marrow is so much easier. I feel like Neil Armstrong after he went to the moon. So you see, depending on how you look at it, sometimes torture is necessary.
Longshanks |
With all due respect I see what you just described as very different then encouraging bleach as a treatment to 'cure' autism. I mean we are talking about kids being forced to ingest a toxic chemical in the hope their autism will go away. There is no justification for that, autism is not a life threatening illness its a neurological disorder that makes our brains work differntly.......ingesting bleach however is life threatening. |
You are missing the forest for the trees, Sweetleaf, and I really don't appreciate you insulting my intelligence like that. Nothing in my post condones those kinds of treatments. How inhumane do you think I am? What is wrong with you? My point is, from personal experience, is that sometimes pain is necessary that a cure may be found - and seing as I now have to spell it out - under reasonable medical tenants. Don't ever insult me like that again!
Longshanks |
ummm i have similar thoughts to sweetleaf on this
cool that you did that for your sister, but i still dont thinkk it pertains
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spongy
...
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
Age: 22
Posts: 7391
Location: Patiently waiting for the seventh wave
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| Longshanks wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | Longshanks wrote: | What I read supra makes me ill. It reminds me of some of the initiations that went on in West Point during the 1840's. In the same token, once in a while, one has to endure torture to save a life. I shall explain. My sister was born without the capability to produce white blood cells - what is known a s pre-natal immune deficiency. This was back in 1971. We discovered she had it when she broke out with smallpox after she had been given the vaccination at age 2. After 23 operations including 3 thymus gland transplants, she was at death's door. Then, in desperation, Dr. Richard Hong of the University of Wisconsin Hospital started taking blood tests of my mom, dad, brother and me. Then, just me. They took so many blood tests that I had needle tracks on my arms. When the veins collapsed, they went into my neck. I was only 8 and I was made fun of at school because everyone thought I was on drugs. Then, they did it. In February 1973, I became the first bone marrow donor in the history of the State of Wisconsin and the second in the world. I am also the only person in the world to have donated twice - both to my sister. Imagine railroad spikes being driven though your bones - that's what it feels like. They took it from my hips, thighs, and sternum. But all I wanted was my sister alive. Today, she is a school teacher in Iowa and is married with 2 kids. I saved not only her life, but my niece and nephew's lives - and their descendants besides. Today, extracting bone marrow is so much easier. I feel like Neil Armstrong after he went to the moon. So you see, depending on how you look at it, sometimes torture is necessary.
Longshanks |
With all due respect I see what you just described as very different then encouraging bleach as a treatment to 'cure' autism. I mean we are talking about kids being forced to ingest a toxic chemical in the hope their autism will go away. There is no justification for that, autism is not a life threatening illness its a neurological disorder that makes our brains work differntly.......ingesting bleach however is life threatening. |
You are missing the forest for the trees, Sweetleaf, and I really don't appreciate you insulting my intelligence like that. Nothing in my post condones those kinds of treatments. How inhumane do you think I am? What is wrong with you? My point is, from personal experience, is that sometimes pain is necessary that a cure may be found - and seing as I now have to spell it out - under reasonable medical tenants. Don't ever insult me like that again!
Longshanks |
Just so we are clear:
Theres nothing in her post that insults your intelligence.She is providing her own opinion on the subject and trying to explain her views to you
What you are doing is a false accusation and if you already knew what she said you could just tell her that you were aware of that instead of making false accusations.
Another false accusation is the end of your post considering that she doesnt insult you in her post.
Please try to stick to what other members are actually saying instead of making false accusations. |
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McAnulty
Toucan
Joined: May 09, 2012
Posts: 258
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:22 am Post subject: |
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I understand that you're saying sometimes suffering is necessary for people to get better. It's true many medical treatments are painful but we consider the ends to be worth the means. I think what makes the bleach thing to upsetting is that the children's lives are not initially in danger, and this is something that is forced on them. If it were adults making their own decisions to do this to themselves, I would still find it upsetting, but not as outrageous because we all have the right to make our own choices about our bodies and lives.
I don't think anyone was trying to insult you at all, it was just a clarification of opinion. And what you did for your sister is a beautiful thing which saved her life and I would never want to compare saving a life to trying to rid a child of Autism by poisoning them. |
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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Rasta is about freedom and the living God
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Joined: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 7998
Location: Babylon
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Why do people torture their children in hopes of cures? |
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| McAnulty wrote: | http://www.care2.com/causes/you-cant-bleach-autism-out-of-a-child.html?page=1
I got a google alert for this today. They're having children drink bleach and have bleach enemas, promising a cure. I am getting so disgusted reading about the horrible things people are doing to their children in hopes of cures. Every day it seems I'm hearing some horrible injustice being done to someone with Autism that makes me want to vomit.
I love my son, if I could make his life easier for him, I would. But I would never, in my life, no matter how bad things got subject him to things like this. Is Autism really so bad that we can justify diets and treatments that make our kids sick? Mega doses of vitamins, chelation, restrictive diets, all of these can make people seriously ill, and now bleach?
This trend of trying to eradicate Autism, where we are so obsessed with getting rid of it we are willing to torture our children, it's just sick. No human being deserves this. Where is our empathy? Maybe the people who are willing to do these things to children are the ones who need to be "cured" |
These people are misguided. They worry their kids will spend the rest of their lives in institutions and will never be independent with jobs and friends. This is a strong motivating force in seeking these "cures." Some parents, after living with their autistic child, do think it's so bad the risks are worth a possible cure. The problem is, this approach is not likely to improve the situation. How can bleach possibly help? When I was a kid, the smell of bleach gave me a headache and made me feel irritable.
Doctors see desperate parents and some prey upon them while others might want to genuinely help. They want to fix the parents's distress and sadness, and they want money, so they come up with so called cures.
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visagrunt
Polymath
Joined: Oct 17, 2009
Age: 45
Posts: 5754
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Part of me is stuck in a credibility loop.
Care2, unfortunately, has a bit of a reputation for never letting the facts get in the way of a good headline.
I cannot fathom anyone with even the most basic education in medicine, biology or chemistry seeing this as a viable therapeutic action. And yet I know that there are vast pools of human ignorance out there. (sigh)
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rileyup
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Apr 15, 2012
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| mmmm..... good old poison |
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pezar
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Age: 38
Posts: 1628
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Why do people torture their children in hopes of cures? |
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| ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote: | | McAnulty wrote: | http://www.care2.com/causes/you-cant-bleach-autism-out-of-a-child.html?page=1
I got a google alert for this today. They're having children drink bleach and have bleach enemas, promising a cure. I am getting so disgusted reading about the horrible things people are doing to their children in hopes of cures. Every day it seems I'm hearing some horrible injustice being done to someone with Autism that makes me want to vomit.
I love my son, if I could make his life easier for him, I would. But I would never, in my life, no matter how bad things got subject him to things like this. Is Autism really so bad that we can justify diets and treatments that make our kids sick? Mega doses of vitamins, chelation, restrictive diets, all of these can make people seriously ill, and now bleach?
This trend of trying to eradicate Autism, where we are so obsessed with getting rid of it we are willing to torture our children, it's just sick. No human being deserves this. Where is our empathy? Maybe the people who are willing to do these things to children are the ones who need to be "cured" |
These people are misguided. They worry their kids will spend the rest of their lives in institutions and will never be independent with jobs and friends. This is a strong motivating force in seeking these "cures." Some parents, after living with their autistic child, do think it's so bad the risks are worth a possible cure. The problem is, this approach is not likely to improve the situation. How can bleach possibly help? When I was a kid, the smell of bleach gave me a headache and made me feel irritable.
Doctors see desperate parents and some prey upon them while others might want to genuinely help. They want to fix the parents's distress and sadness, and they want money, so they come up with so called cures. |
Well, SOME autistic kids are extremely hard to handle. They punch holes through walls, they scream, they bite and claw, etc. It's understandable that the parents of such a child, after enduring YEARS of crazy behavior, would be willing to poison their kids in the search for a "cure". The parents aren't thinking clearly, and are more likely to fall for the first quackadoodle who shows up with a "cure". I think that most of the doctors who try to "cure" autism are just greedy vultures who want to separate desperate parents from money the parents don't have (ie borrowed). Parents go zillions of dollars into debt for a "cure", all to pay for vultures and their treatments that are the equivalent of using leeches on a person with strep. Then there are the vain parents, who desperately want their kid to "win" at life and have a very narrow view of "winning", and if the kid isn't making a billion dollars a year he's a "failure". I have zero sympathy for such people. They need to step outside their box and look at the world in a different way. This is mainly a problem among the affluent. I think those are the groups wanting a cure. The vain rich parents, and the parents of a truly out of control child. |
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League_Girl
Proud mamma
Joined: Feb 05, 2010
Posts: 13483
Location: My house
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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I still don't understand how bleach is supposed to cure autism. Where did their logic come from?
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Titanic is a good diaper movie, lots of flooding |
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pezar
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Age: 38
Posts: 1628
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| League_Girl wrote: | | I still don't understand how bleach is supposed to cure autism. Where did their logic come from? |
There IS NO logic. It's just another fake "cure" designed to separate desperate parents from their money. Sometimes I wonder if Defeat Autism Now doesn't sit around all day thinking up ever stranger ways to torture autistic kids for profit. "They do 100 rounds of chelation and dozens of hyperbaric oxygen treatments? What weirdos! Where there is money, there will be stupidity! I know, let's have the kids drink BLEACH! When it kills a kid, we can say HEY, HE'S *CURED*!" DAN is full of guys who must have pulled wings off flies and gutted live squirrels when they were kids. Some who do that become serial killers, some go on to "cure" autism. |
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Declension
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 21, 2012
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| When children turn out strange, the parents often feel that it must be somehow their fault. They think that society is judging them as bad parents. So their desire to "fix" their children can be entirely selfish. The logic of using bleach is quite revealing. They see their children as an embarrassing stain on their social life that needs to be removed. |
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LiberalJustice
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 01, 2009
Posts: 1031
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Why do people torture their children in hopes of cures? |
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Sorry if this is slightly OT, but....
I think a large part of why so many parents have this attitude of "Oh, no! My child will never be normal!" when their child is diagnosed with Asperger's or Autism is how the media and certain organizations portray it. Sure, there are Autistic children who aren't able to talk or any of those other things, but they are in the minority. Autism is not a disease. It may mean you are different, but not defective. Why others might try to make it look like some life-altering disability whose "victims" have no hope other than to scare parents and the general population is beyond me.
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"I Would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
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Adopted mother to a cat named Charlotte, and grandmother to 3 kittens. |
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