abstract
Snowy Owl
Joined: May 29, 2012
Posts: 160
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 Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Most people don't understand the difference between Asperger Syndrome (or other forms of high functioning autism) and Autism. The media spends a great deal of time covering Autism in general rather than discussing how it is a broad spectrum. |
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Inventor
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 5111
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Alex is not President, he is King of his Domain. Long Live The King!
There is nothing democratic about autism. We cannot vote it out of office.
Consilence, The Convergence of All Knowledge, Edward O. Wilson, is happening here. When all Knowledge is laid out, we find we look upon the same problems from various sides, and we all learn.
I have agreed and disagreed with Autism Speaks, but they have added Content. Lately most of my disagreement has been directed toward Psychobabble, Drug Pushers, and and people with Doctorates who call themselves Dr. Smith, rather than John Smith MD, with the intent to confuse. a Doctor of Psychology trying to speak as one of the Medical Profession on behalf of a drug company.
Autism Speaks does put more of their budget toward the project than most non profits. I read their research grants, and most is going for means to identify early, and just what therapies work. Most are one to one, speech, behavior, that have shown measurable results.
In the early days everything was explored, and found to be worthless. No magic cure, drug, genetic wonder, vaccine, which used to fill the uneducated press, before Huffington Post, which has brought new lows to reporting.
Autism has staying power, learn to live with it.
Further afield, we are talking about directing the path of human intelligence. It has two sides, Eugenics, and enhancing development. Eugenics gets bad press, but Enhancing Development has it's own set of problems.
High functioning Autism is a good model of what might happen if intelligence advances at the cost of a decline in social interaction.
The other development, the Internet, is also producing social disablities, due to the lack of connection beyond the keyboard. Cracked did an article about Internet Based Disorders. They did identify Internet Asperger's Syndrome developing in the non autistic, just because they were conversing without eye contact, body language, or tone of voice.
With a lack of these inputs, some on the web lose track of who they are, and that they are relating to other real people. They behave exactly as people with Asperger's Syndrome do in real life.
There is a real world ahead, in another thirty years the war babies will be gone, and the next generation will have a world with declining social skills, less face to face, and the Democratic Process may not survive.
Those who oppose my point of view are learned, well educated, Just, Loyal, Honorable, and acting for the best as they see the world. While we must air our differances, we must also agree on the way forward as one people.
What we chose to do now will affect people long after we are gone. |
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LennytheWicked
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2011
Posts: 516
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| abstract wrote: | | Most people don't understand the difference between Asperger Syndrome (or other forms of high functioning autism) and Autism. The media spends a great deal of time covering Autism in general rather than discussing how it is a broad spectrum. |
If they were covering autism in general, they would be covering it as a broad spectrum. I believe what you mean is that they are hyper-focused on "LFA."
And as a general statement to DaLurker, don't go on one of your "well you all have talents so you're obviously not disabled" rants. I'm sure those of us who are also epileptic, have OCD, or anxiety issues don't appreciate it. At the very least, I don't. Secondly, stop implying that everyone with LFA is completely lacking in a fulfilling life.
For example, my little brother Sam has LFA, and the biggest thing holding him back is people underestimating him. He's been pegged for having a second-grade reading level and being mentally retarded. Guess what he does if you give him a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle featuring trains, or what he does if you shove him in the Museum of Science and Industry's exhibits on trains and planes and such, or, my favorite, giving him a big book on the history of trains. [If you haven't guessed, he really likes trains.] He's not stupid, but no one's trying to help him at a level higher than they think that he is. They're just babysitting. |
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dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| LennytheWicked wrote: |
And as a general statement to DaLurker, don't go on one of your "well you all have talents so you're obviously not disabled" rants. I'm sure those of us who are also epileptic, have OCD, or anxiety issues don't appreciate it. At the very least, I don't. Secondly, stop implying that everyone with LFA is completely lacking in a fulfilling life. |
I'll keep going on them until you stop deceiving the ignorant public. Because there are some who clearly aren't disabled at all. They aren't entitled to the underdog consideration intended for the disabled. OCD and anxiety aren't disabilities. Stick to the topic. I won't stop implying that. Lots out there aren't having fulfilling lives due to lack of basic skills. I'm very tired of your elitist righteous indignation, while you want to maintain what's going on now, with many autistics easily becoming dependent on whoever is around them, living on their terms, after losing out on so many opportunities that are shut out to them. Some are living in the dungeons of institutions, while others live through the miserable cycle of dealing with snarling government bureaucrats when trying to get services. There's no realistic way out of this without solving the underlying problem, which is disability. But you successful aspies are seeing opportunities all the time, and gain independence and achievement with ease, once you have a clear mind. Dependence isn't tolerable and you know it. Some are sick of you being sanctimonious in sticking up for all of this hierarchy. There is nothing in it for the unfortunate to just let you undermine chances for progress. |
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aghogday
KATiE MiA
Joined: Nov 26, 2010
Posts: 4753
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| theimperiousdork wrote: | Just a few reminders, thewhitrbbit, I have never claimed to speak for everyone on the spectrum. Though I advise, please do not
shut yourself out from knowing the fact that Autism Speaks has been deceiving and misrepresenting us, and that
your future as well as that of others depend on how we and those who support us continue to advocate. I know that
God is siding with those whose hearts are pure and just. But the evil one continues to obstruct this divine goal, and
damn, it could be frustrating to us who try to take it down along with its minions. They are luring us to this
trap, and continue to deceive everybody and collecting huge sums of money while at it. As for everyone, do
you ever wonder, has the IRS even looked on this group's tax-exempt status? And come on, none of us are
stupid. Look at the lifestyle of its shareholders. Rich and beautiful, aren't they? I would be a complete
idiot if I won't conclude that they benefit significantly from the massive donations that they muster,
and I wonder where they spend it on? To "research" (more like, genocidal plots), as they claim it? Why don't they
stop deceiving the general public on their real objectives and reveal their true nature? I find it frustrating and
tiring to play guessing games with anyone else, much less with an organisation. Please, Autism Speaks, spare
us the "we speak for autistics" line, since you really don't. Now I have heard that you crybaby of a group has a beef
with autism self-advocates, going so far as to sue them in court for innocuously but truthfully protesting
your deception and misrepresentation. Can't you be any lower than that, gagging those who speak against you? And spare us your
litanies, those TL;DR statements, which are all in legalese, anyway. Now I don't underestimate your intellect,
aghogday, but come on, put them in a few words and prevent a flood of nose blood. |
Autism Speaks as all non-profit charitable organizations are regulated by the government, as well as examined through the microscope of third party watchdog groups.
There are no organizations identified with autism that score higher than 3 out of 4 stars on the charity navigator watchdog group analysis, and the organization meets all standards for the BBB. Both organizations review Autism Speaks IRS form 990. The Charity Navigator group lists Autism Speaks salaries within the norm of charities of the size of autism speaks, in the NorthEast.
Autism Speaks research restrictions and goals have already been addressed in this thread and evidenced as worthwhile ones, across the autism spectrum in the US as well as underserved demographics across the globe.
It is you that are suggesting that autism speaks, speak for autistics that can speak, not autism speaks. That is clear, as already addressed in this thread, by how the phrase is defined on their website.
There is no evidence that autism speaks has sued anyone in court, they have protected their trademark as obligated under US code, per a cease and desist letter, and nothing more.
Every fact I have presented can be validated. Nothing you accuse the organization of, per criminal or evil element, has been validated through evidence. I can back what I say with third party evidence. Can you do the same for any of your opinions that Autism Speaks has evil or criminal intent?
There is already close to a 50 page thread, where almost every possible imaginable accusation against the organization, has been addressed and evidenced, when false. It's linked earlier in this thread. There are probably bad things there that people have reported about the organization, that you may never have heard before.
The answers are available through a simple google search, per those reputable organizations, that examine charitable organizations, there is no need to take my word for it, because I am just repeating facts gathered from reputable third party sources. And if one doesn't want to do the google search, the links are all provided in the other thread, linked here in this thread.
If you have problem with any of the facts I have provided, I don't mind providing those links again. I enjoy pursuing evidence, that provides clarification on information, that does not sound reasonable to me.
And finally, I have no authority here, but just a suggestion, the signature line is not a good place to offer an offensive statement about any member here, nor the owner.
Last edited by aghogday on Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LennytheWicked
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2011
Posts: 516
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| dalurker wrote: | | I'll keep going on them until you stop deceiving the ignorant public. |
You can't deceive a public that won't listen because of prejudice.
| Quote: | | Because there are some who clearly aren't disabled at all. They aren't entitled to the underdog consideration intended for the disabled. OCD and anxiety aren't disabilities. |
Like hell they aren't. Have you ever had a panic attack just sitting quietly? Have you ever had to excuse yourself from a place you actually wanted to be - like a science museum or a party or a lecture - just because the people are making you nervous? Have you ever been told to leave a place you actually wanted to be because the people are making you visibly nervous?
| Quote: | | I won't stop implying that. Lots out there aren't having fulfilling lives due to lack of basic skills. |
Sure. Some people are having lots of issues with it and should certainly have viable services available to them. Now if only there were more viable services.
| Quote: | | I'm very tired of your elitist righteous indignation, while you want to maintain what's going on now, with many autistics easily becoming dependent on whoever is around them, living on their terms, after losing out on so many opportunities that are shut out to them. |
Did you know that some people are kicked off of sports teams specifically because they're autistic? How do you figure I'm elitist? I'm asking to be treated fairly and not be written off because I'm 'too normal' for you. Because I am not normal enough for most people, I do qualify as autistic under DSM-V, and my diagnosis has been rectified to suit that.
| Quote: | | Some are living in the dungeons of institutions, while others live through the miserable cycle of dealing with snarling government bureaucrats when trying to get services. |
Exactly. Which is why there need to be better services available to the general public in the first place. If you continuously teach a fourteen-year-old first grade math for eight years, guess what math level he'll be at.
As for institutions, I was put in a psych ward for the aforementioned anxiety and OCD. I was hospitalized for the epilepsy. Those disorders are both linked to my autism.
| Quote: | | There's no realistic way out of this without solving the underlying problem, which is disability. |
Or you could raise awareness about the truth, which is that most "LFA" people will not function at a normal level if they are treated like children their entire lives. Parents of NT children would go berserk if they learned that their child was in the seventh grade and still learning their multiplication tables, but that doesn't seem so for parents of autistic children.
| Quote: | | But you successful aspies are seeing opportunities all the time, and gain independence and achievement with ease, once you have a clear mind. |
Bullshit. You try informing your employer that you have an autism diagnosis of any kind and see how that goes. Oh, and if you say, "No, I don't have any disorders," and they find out about it, they can fire you for lying on your application.
| Quote: | | Dependence isn't tolerable and you know it. Some are sick of you being sanctimonious in sticking up for all of this hierarchy. There is nothing in it for the unfortunate to just let you undermine chances for progress. |
How is wanting better actual services undermining progress? I would like for my brother to be engaged and happy rather than shoved into a room and treated like an idiot all day long like he has been for most of his life. Of course he's not going to make any progress like this - he's being treated like he won't make any progress.
Quite honestly, the attitude that LFAs will always be LFAs who lack "basic skills" is much more damaging than that. |
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dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| LennytheWicked wrote: | | dalurker wrote: | | I'll keep going on them until you stop deceiving the ignorant public. |
You can't deceive a public that won't listen because of prejudice.
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Who are you trying to convince then?
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Like hell they aren't. Have you ever had a panic attack just sitting quietly? Have you ever had to excuse yourself from a place you actually wanted to be - like a science museum or a party or a lecture - just because the people are making you nervous? Have you ever been told to leave a place you actually wanted to be because the people are making you visibly nervous? |
If you want to talk of panic attacks/anxiety disorders, go to a forum somewhere for that. You're off topic now and you know it. Anxiety isn't an inherent lack of ability to do something. That's why I say it isn't a disability.
| Quote: | | Did you know that some people are kicked off of sports teams specifically because they're autistic? How do you figure I'm elitist? I'm asking to be treated fairly and not be written off because I'm 'too normal' for you. Because I am not normal enough for most people, I do qualify as autistic under DSM-V, and my diagnosis has been rectified to suit that. |
I didn't hear any stories of that, but there are many autistics who really can't play sports to begin with because of their impairments. I just don't want you to pretend there's some huge success and talent case behind every autistic, with only prejudices and restrictions from others stopping them. That idea could make for a catchy soundbite. But reality checks show that isn't true. I don't think you need to have your privileged position to be treated fairly. You're better off than so many autistics, not due to work of your own, and are vehemently against efforts to bring up other autistics to your level. You don't deserve to get away with that by nobody rebutting you. Some don't think this hierarchy is necessarily a default and just way for society to operate by. I think you're being unfair to others. Nobody is writing you off. You're not "too normal". You're too apt and functional, and therefore successful. You have opportunities that others on the spectrum don't have due to that.
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Exactly. Which is why there need to be better services available to the general public in the first place. If you continuously teach a fourteen-year-old first grade math for eight years, guess what math level he'll be at. |
Why would they teach like that? What if the person just couldn't learn the first grade math all of that time? Don't ignore reality.
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Or you could raise awareness about the truth, which is that most "LFA" people will not function at a normal level if they are treated like children their entire lives. Parents of NT children would go berserk if they learned that their child was in the seventh grade and still learning their multiplication tables, but that doesn't seem so for parents of autistic children. |
They aren't disabled because of being treated like children. Mental disability is a real phenomenon that occurs in the brain. Seems like Bettleheim is back.
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Bullshit. You try informing your employer that you have an autism diagnosis of any kind and see how that goes. Oh, and if you say, "No, I don't have any disorders," and they find out about it, they can fire you for lying on your application. |
What is anyone doing informing their employer they're autistic when they have no need to? When you know they'll misinterpret it. Nobody has to answer questions of mental illness when looking for jobs. There are some autistics who have to work in sheltered workshops or be handed crappy jobs through social services. There are real predicaments out there.
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How is wanting better actual services undermining progress? I would like for my brother to be engaged and happy rather than shoved into a room and treated like an idiot all day long like he has been for most of his life. Of course he's not going to make any progress like this - he's being treated like he won't make any progress.
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I'm referring to your opposition to cure. You aren't helping services by claiming that cure is scary and mean.
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Quite honestly, the attitude that LFAs will always be LFAs who lack "basic skills" is much more damaging than that. |
Enough with that fulfilling prophesy nonsense. They will remain that way if your side gets what it wants. |
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LennytheWicked
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2011
Posts: 516
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| dalurker wrote: | | LennytheWicked wrote: | | dalurker wrote: | | I'll keep going on them until you stop deceiving the ignorant public. |
You can't deceive a public that won't listen because of prejudice.
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Who are you trying to convince then? |
You, but trying to convince you of anything is like playing chess with a pigeon.
| Quote: | | Quote: |
Like hell they aren't. Have you ever had a panic attack just sitting quietly? Have you ever had to excuse yourself from a place you actually wanted to be - like a science museum or a party or a lecture - just because the people are making you nervous? Have you ever been told to leave a place you actually wanted to be because the people are making you visibly nervous? |
If you want to talk of panic attacks/anxiety disorders, go to a forum somewhere for that. You're off topic now and you know it. Anxiety isn't an inherent lack of ability to do something. That's why I say it isn't a disability. |
Anxiety is not an inherent lack of ability to do something, but anxiety disorders are an inherent lack of ability to cope with anxiety. My anxieties are caused primarily by stimuli, which would not bother me if not for the autism. It is very relevant.
[quote] | Quote: | | Did you know that some people are kicked off of sports teams specifically because they're autistic? How do you figure I'm elitist? I'm asking to be treated fairly and not be written off because I'm 'too normal' for you. Because I am not normal enough for most people, I do qualify as autistic under DSM-V, and my diagnosis has been rectified to suit that. |
I didn't hear any stories of that, but there are many autistics who really can't play sports to begin with because of their impairments.]/quote]
Right. Because now autism makes it impossible for a person to shoot goals or dribble.
| Quote: | | I just don't want you to pretend there's some huge success and talent case behind every autistic, with only prejudices and restrictions from others stopping them. |
And when did I say that? I never said that everyone with autism is inherently a genius. I said that being underestimated is just as big of an issue as the disability itself.
| Quote: | | That idea could make for a catchy soundbite. But reality checks show that isn't true. |
Oh really? And where are your reality checks? Do you have anyone who's been treated like a two-year-old their whole life who turned out successful? Because I'm arguing that such a scenario wouldn't happen with an NT and wouldn't happen with an autistic.
| Quote: | | I don't think you need to have your privileged position to be treated fairly. You're better off than so many autistics, not due to work of your own, and are vehemently against efforts to bring up other autistics to your level. |
Are you f***ing kidding me? You're calling me privileged? Welcome to the real world, buddy. I get seizures and migraines related to certain stimuli. And I am not opposed to bringing others up to my level as long as they're not supposed to stay at my level. Because my level still sucks, believe it or not.
| Quote: | | You don't deserve to get away with that by nobody rebutting you. Some don't think this hierarchy is necessarily a default and just way for society to operate by. I think you're being unfair to others. |
| Quote: | | Nobody is writing you off. You're not "too normal". You're too apt and functional, and therefore successful. You have opportunities that others on the spectrum don't have due to that. |
Right, two seconds ago you wrote this:
"I don't think you need to have your privileged position to be treated fairly. You're better off than so many autistics, not due to work of your own, and are vehemently against efforts to bring up other autistics to your level."
Noooo, that's not writing me of as too normal at allllllll.
| Quote: | | Quote: |
Exactly. Which is why there need to be better services available to the general public in the first place. If you continuously teach a fourteen-year-old first grade math for eight years, guess what math level he'll be at. |
Why would they teach like that? What if the person just couldn't learn the first grade math all of that time? Don't ignore reality. |
They do teach like that because they don't understand. While I realize the communication block is a major issue, there are ways to get around it. I know that my my little brother is capable of doing basic algebra in a life scenario because I make him do it. But in school, he is still doing single digit addition and subtraction. When I wrote a letter to his teacher telling her about this, she said that Sam was at too low of a level to learn pre-algebra, even though he was already doing it.
| Quote: | | Quote: |
Or you could raise awareness about the truth, which is that most "LFA" people will not function at a normal level if they are treated like children their entire lives. Parents of NT children would go berserk if they learned that their child was in the seventh grade and still learning their multiplication tables, but that doesn't seem so for parents of autistic children. |
They aren't disabled because of being treated like children. Mental disability is a real phenomenon that occurs in the brain. Seems like Bettleheim is back. |
I never said that being treated like children disabled them; I am however saying that it could quite possibly delay or stunt their academic growth, [and I say academic because I believe that intellectual growth is less definable] as well as their emotional growth in some cases where it may not have been an issue.
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Bullshit. You try informing your employer that you have an autism diagnosis of any kind and see how that goes. Oh, and if you say, "No, I don't have any disorders," and they find out about it, they can fire you for lying on your application. |
What is anyone doing informing their employer they're autistic when they have no need to? When you know they'll misinterpret it. Nobody has to answer questions of mental illness when looking for jobs. There are some autistics who have to work in sheltered workshops or be handed crappy jobs through social services. There are real predicaments out there. |
They ask on some job applications if you have any disabilities that may hinder your performance. In my case, I would have trouble at a help desk if it meant dealing with angry or yelling customers, because I smile and giggle when people are mad at me which seems to make them angrier.
Autism isn't just a mental illness, it's a neurological disorder. There's no antidepressant that you can take to shoo your autism symptoms away. [Except the ones that are actually sedatives, but yuck.]
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How is wanting better actual services undermining progress? I would like for my brother to be engaged and happy rather than shoved into a room and treated like an idiot all day long like he has been for most of his life. Of course he's not going to make any progress like this - he's being treated like he won't make any progress.
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I'm referring to your opposition to cure. You aren't helping services by claiming that cure is scary and mean. |
When did I do that?
I don't believe in forcing a cure, and I don't want a prenatal test. It doesn't mean that it won't happen. I think it's generally better to work through issues than to take a magic pill and make them poof.
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Quite honestly, the attitude that LFAs will always be LFAs who lack "basic skills" is much more damaging than that. |
Enough with that fulfilling prophesy nonsense. They will remain that way if your side gets what it wants. |
What I want is to not be written off, and to not have to face prejudice simply for being autistic.
How is that damaging? How is it damaging to think that people with LFA aren't empty-headed husks like so many people seem to imply?
I never even said that I had a special ability. So how do you figure I'm better off? |
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dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| LennytheWicked wrote: |
Right. Because now autism makes it impossible for a person to shoot goals or dribble. |
What if someone with autism can't handle the team aspects of sports?
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| Quote: | | I just don't want you to pretend there's some huge success and talent case behind every autistic, with only prejudices and restrictions from others stopping them. |
And when did I say that? I never said that everyone with autism is inherently a genius. I said that being underestimated is just as big of an issue as the disability itself. |
There are too many implying that. There is lots of stuff in the media emphasizing occasional success stories.
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Oh really? And where are your reality checks? Do you have anyone who's been treated like a two-year-old their whole life who turned out successful? Because I'm arguing that such a scenario wouldn't happen with an NT and wouldn't happen with an autistic. |
I think some are treated like 2 year olds after not being successful.
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| Quote: | | Nobody is writing you off. You're not "too normal". You're too apt and functional, and therefore successful. You have opportunities that others on the spectrum don't have due to that. |
Right, two seconds ago you wrote this:
"I don't think you need to have your privileged position to be treated fairly. You're better off than so many autistics, not due to work of your own, and are vehemently against efforts to bring up other autistics to your level."
Noooo, that's not writing me of as too normal at allllllll.
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I don't see your point. You are the one obsessed with the word normal. I don't know what you mean by it. I'm talking of the distinction between strong and weak, competent and impaired.
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They do teach like that because they don't understand. While I realize the communication block is a major issue, there are ways to get around it. I know that my my little brother is capable of doing basic algebra in a life scenario because I make him do it. But in school, he is still doing single digit addition and subtraction. When I wrote a letter to his teacher telling her about this, she said that Sam was at too low of a level to learn pre-algebra, even though he was already doing it.
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Why don't you show him how to do it on paper?
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They ask on some job applications if you have any disabilities that may hinder your performance. In my case, I would have trouble at a help desk if it meant dealing with angry or yelling customers, because I smile and giggle when people are mad at me which seems to make them angrier.
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There isn't really an objective way to deal with angry customers. And if someone has disabilities that really do hinder performance, they're vulnerable anyway.
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Autism isn't just a mental illness, it's a neurological disorder. There's no antidepressant that you can take to shoo your autism symptoms away. [Except the ones that are actually sedatives, but yuck.] |
Antidepressants? Who is even talking of them?
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I'm referring to your opposition to cure. You aren't helping services by claiming that cure is scary and mean. |
When did I do that?
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You say things to undermine the goal of cure. Like the next things you are saying.
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I don't believe in forcing a cure, and I don't want a prenatal test. It doesn't mean that it won't happen. I think it's generally better to work through issues than to take a magic pill and make them poof.
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What I want is to not be written off, and to not have to face prejudice simply for being autistic.
How is that damaging? How is it damaging to think that people with LFA aren't empty-headed husks like so many people seem to imply?
I never even said that I had a special ability. So how do you figure I'm better off? |
Prejudice is pre judging. Some judge after observing autism symptoms. All you do is whine that some acknowledge that LFAs aren't doing well. Your fairy tales aren't a solution. |
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Nexus
Seems legit...
Joined: Aug 15, 2006
Posts: 1111
Location: On I2
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| dalurker wrote: | | Quote: | | Like hell they aren't. Have you ever had a panic attack just sitting quietly? Have you ever had to excuse yourself from a place you actually wanted to be - like a science museum or a party or a lecture - just because the people are making you nervous? Have you ever been told to leave a place you actually wanted to be because the people are making you visibly nervous? |
If you want to talk of panic attacks/anxiety disorders, go to a forum somewhere for that. You're off topic now and you know it. Anxiety isn't an inherent lack of ability to do something. That's why I say it isn't a disability. |
So, you complain about our others misrepresenting Autism as being not so bad and yet willing to do that very same argument to people who suffer other disorders. And how you think people who suffer from OCD and Anxiety will feel when they hear that from other people? The same way you feel about how others talk about Autism most likely, offended.
_________________
"Have a nice apocalypse" - Southland Tales |
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LennytheWicked
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2011
Posts: 516
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| dalurker wrote: | | LennytheWicked wrote: |
Right. Because now autism makes it impossible for a person to shoot goals or dribble. |
What if someone with autism can't handle the team aspects of sports? |
In my experience, teens can't handle the team aspects of sports.
And that's what tennis, badminton, golf, swimming, and track are for. They still kick kids off of those teams.
| Quote: | | There are too many implying that. There is lots of stuff in the media emphasizing occasional success stories. |
Really now? The emphasis I see is, "WOW. They did this cool thing even though they have autism!"
| Quote: | | I think some are treated like 2 year olds after not being successful. |
Which is a problem.
| Quote: | | I don't see your point. You are the one obsessed with the word normal. I don't know what you mean by it. I'm talking of the distinction between strong and weak, competent and impaired. |
And you're acting like I cannot have some degree of strength coupled with some degree of weakness, or some degree of competence as well as some degree of impairment.
| Quote: | | Why don't you show him how to do it on paper? |
His handwriting is worse than mine. That puts a wrench in it.
| Quote: | | There isn't really an objective way to deal with angry customers. And if someone has disabilities that really do hinder performance, they're vulnerable anyway. |
Yes, but most normal people can sit calmly through and say, "Sir, please calm down and I'll do X to solve Y." I can not do that.
It's actually illegal to discriminate against people for having disabilities in the USA. But if you lie about it then you ARE fair game to fire.
| Quote: |
Antidepressants? Who is even talking of them? |
Probably too specific of an example, but I meant meds. My brothers and I were all shoved on antidepressants upon diagnosis to 'treat' our autism, and they gave us all rage flashes, raised our blood pressure to an unusual level for otherwise healthy people, and made us really tired.
| Quote: | | You say things to undermine the goal of cure. Like the next things you are saying. |
How dare I oppose forcing a cure. Me, you disgust me.
| Quote: | | Prejudice is pre judging. Some judge after observing autism symptoms. All you do is whine that some acknowledge that LFAs aren't doing well. Your fairy tales aren't a solution. |
Keyword "some." SOME.
And what the hell is wrong with you? Can you make an argument that isn't a damn strawman? Or is that beyond your comprehension of rhetoric? I didn't say that all LFA's are doing well, I said that maybe if we, gasp, try acknowledging them as human beings with potential instead of empty husks then they'll do better. Maybe not "POOF. MAGIC." But better. |
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theimperiousdork
War resumes!
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
Posts: 5896
Location: Secret
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:47 am Post subject: |
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You present a hodge-podge of rebuttals to me, aghogday, yet in my opinion, I don't think I should
need them. Why not? Because many of its supporters underestimate how vicious and vile Autism Speaks really is
to the autistic community. You may claim it's OK'd by the BBB and the IRS, but so is Scientology and God Hates Fags. Those
fall on the category of hate groups. And based on its activities and advocacies, past or present, Autism Speaks is so
off the charts for being a hate group, equating with Neo-Nazis and the KKK. And excuse me, please, don't be
a presumptuous somebody and put words into my mouth. It'd be better if they would jump off the Golden Gate
bridge rather than be hypocrites and claim to advocate for autistics, which they actually don't. Oh,
and by the way, I know of cases where your favourite group has harassed self-advocates, so they could
kill off the voices of their opponents. I'm not saying that they can put anyone to death, but I think otherwise. And you
yourself have said that they issue cease-and-desist letters. Isn't it categorised as harrassment and litigation in anyone's books? Oh,
you say those accusations are false. I think their words and rebuttals are false. Sad to bring this to you, but I'm no
moron to buy their false reasoning. By the way, thank you for bringing those third-party links up, aghogday,
because I can use them to further incriminate the already-incriminated clandestine criminal organisation that
you appear to support. (Does this sound like a tongue twister? Perhaps.) And as for my signature, you like it,
don't you? It's more like an in-your-face statement. For goodness' sakes, the Internet is a free world, don't
make it like North Korea or Somalia or something. I am a member here, and it is my privilege to say
any thought, however offensive it may be to others. I can only do so much if it offends some poor souls. Maybe they needed
sense that is enlightening and authentic. Again, I don't claim to be clean -- but if in any case we need to arbitrate this
at some other venue beside this forum, I would say, "Bring it." Personally, it's a pleasure having to discuss
all these things with you, aghogday, but in the name of consistency, I believe we need to continue this discussion.
_________________
And now, the war resumes. Bring it on, you! |
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dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| LennytheWicked wrote: |
| Quote: | | You say things to undermine the goal of cure. Like the next things you are saying. |
How dare I oppose forcing a cure. Me, you disgust me. |
Who is forcing a cure? By the way, why are so many forced to be disabled in the first place?
| Quote: |
And what the hell is wrong with you? Can you make an argument that isn't a damn strawman? Or is that beyond your comprehension of rhetoric? I didn't say that all LFA's are doing well, I said that maybe if we, gasp, try acknowledging them as human beings with potential instead of empty husks then they'll do better. Maybe not "POOF. MAGIC." But better. |
You have no solutions, so you really should seek real information from those who are actually working on the problems. |
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dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| Nexus wrote: |
So, you complain about our others misrepresenting Autism as being not so bad and yet willing to do that very same argument to people who suffer other disorders. And how you think people who suffer from OCD and Anxiety will feel when they hear that from other people? The same way you feel about how others talk about Autism most likely, offended. |
I didn't misrepresent any disorders. I shouldn't even be talking of them here, because they're not the same thing as autism. |
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nostromo
Honk-honk Hippo
Joined: Mar 13, 2010
Age: 45
Posts: 3198
Location: At Festively Plump
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| theimperiousdork wrote: | You present a hodge-podge of rebuttals to me, aghogday, yet in my opinion, I don't think I should
need them. Why not? Because many of its supporters underestimate how vicious and vile Autism Speaks really is
to the autistic community. You may claim it's OK'd by the BBB and the IRS, but so is Scientology and God Hates Fags. Those
fall on the category of hate groups. And based on its activities and advocacies, past or present, Autism Speaks is so
off the charts for being a hate group, equating with Neo-Nazis and the KKK. And excuse me, please, don't be
a presumptuous somebody and put words into my mouth. It'd be better if they would jump off the Golden Gate
bridge rather than be hypocrites and claim to advocate for autistics, which they actually don't. Oh,
and by the way, I know of cases where your favourite group has harassed self-advocates, so they could
kill off the voices of their opponents. I'm not saying that they can put anyone to death, but I think otherwise. And you
yourself have said that they issue cease-and-desist letters. Isn't it categorised as harrassment and litigation in anyone's books? Oh,
you say those accusations are false. I think their words and rebuttals are false. Sad to bring this to you, but I'm no
moron to buy their false reasoning. By the way, thank you for bringing those third-party links up, aghogday,
because I can use them to further incriminate the already-incriminated clandestine criminal organisation that
you appear to support. (Does this sound like a tongue twister? Perhaps.) And as for my signature, you like it,
don't you? It's more like an in-your-face statement. For goodness' sakes, the Internet is a free world, don't
make it like North Korea or Somalia or something. I am a member here, and it is my privilege to say
any thought, however offensive it may be to others. I can only do so much if it offends some poor souls. Maybe they needed
sense that is enlightening and authentic. Again, I don't claim to be clean -- but if in any case we need to arbitrate this
at some other venue beside this forum, I would say, "Bring it." Personally, it's a pleasure having to discuss
all these things with you, aghogday, but in the name of consistency, I believe we need to continue this discussion. |
Aghogdays posts are reasoned and detailed with many specifics, whereas yours are unspecific, emotive, and contain misrepresentations.
E.g. describing Austim Speaks as a "criminal organisation" look it up, does it fit? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_crime
or a "Hate group" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_group
Somewhat ludicrous. But I'm all ears if you want to try and back up those statements somehow. |
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