vermontsavant
My father 1934 to 2010
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Age: 37
Posts: 1779
Location: Bellows Falls,Vermont USA
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 Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:40 am Post subject: |
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i was addressing issues that concerned me because you implied that a simple joke was an attempt at a serious factual statement.so i defended my joke as being a joke.i dont know what that has to do with aghogday.
as far as aghogday,we are tired of seeing him attacked personaly, because he has the guts to defend an unpopular organization.aghogday is a man of integrity and has no part any evil empire
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theimperiousdork
War resumes!
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
Posts: 5896
Location: Secret
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:35 am Post subject: |
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No offense meant, everybody, but as I said, I am entitled to my own opinion here. If you cannot accept it, I, for
one, can only do so much as to be consistent. Now here's the deal: I'll be addressing this to everyone. If you
can not stomach what I say, then there is nothing I can do about it. I started to express my disgust, and it is too late for me to
stop. Again, I'm addressing this to everyone, not just to any specific user. Ban me if you can, but gag me you can't. As for
me, allow me to say what I want everyone to know about. Whether you believe it or not is no longer my problem.
Even if I have been saying diatribes against that vile group and how Alex Plank has broken his principles and sides with their ranks,
if no one speaks against it, everyone goes blind and would disregard such a transgression. I am here to stand up to it, and it's up to
you to follow suit. Now I and my cause are being threatened by some scoundrels. I can't really do anything anymore if they choose to
purge my account. But mind you, even if they do, let me tell everyone this: As long as the corrupt exist, someone will speak. I started with
me speaking against such travesty with inflammatory statements, the best thing I can do as a wake-up call. Now as for my statements,
I may have sounded contradicting at that point, and initially I said "Bring it on" because I was in the hopes that someone
will be able to convince me, but since I wasn't, I refused to listen, because it is the same lie I have been hearing, and
still a well-orchestrated lie at it. I may be on my own, and I saw this coming, so in practice, I don't feel threatened as much. Do not
be, however, conclusive that I exist solely to stir up some commotion. For a while, I have always been in this forum as a laid
back poster, having fun with buddies here. But then, things do change, and for some of us, change is bad. And
from that time on, I have attempted to post my radical thoughts on this vile group that some continue to defend. You may say "the
hell with you" in my face, but if you guys don't want to listen, I guess I shall move on, since I don't think we're going anywhere with this
and it is arriving to a point that some are being affected so much by radical thinking. The very thoughts of that group existing still
haunt my thinking, and I had to have my say. Again, this is my opinion, and if people think I would get into trouble, whether
you have my front or not is something I cannot have my say on. Still, I appreciated this discussion very much, and let's move on, shall we?
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Cornflake
Rattles when shaken
Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 30306
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| theimperiousdork wrote: | | I am entitled to my own opinion here. |
Of course you are - no-one is attempting to deny you that.
But for your opinions to remain credible when challenged, they must be backed by evidence and all people are doing is asking you to provide that evidence.
It doesn't really matter how many times you claim what you state is the truth because if evidence is required before other people can see it as the truth - and yet you refuse to provide that evidence - then you simply weaken your own case.
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LennytheWicked
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2011
Posts: 516
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| dalurker wrote: | | You're not getting anything straight as you're not listening. You're not being rational. You're just being chaotically emotional and are overdoing it with hyperbole. All to defend a position that isn't favorable. There are some autistics who are extremely apt and functional, and therefore successful, while many others on the spectrum are the opposite. Many think that's an exploitative injustice. Cure is to get rid of the disability the low-functioning have so nobody has intellectual advantages over anyone else. When someone is that disabled, they need a way out. Nobody who is highly impaired, child or not, wouldn't want a cure. You have presented no meaningful reason why someone would want to remain impaired. I think you're the one advocating a reality in which they endure subhuman conditions that hurt them consistently. And being super nice to them to their face doesn't make up for the fact that others intentionally keep their privileged position over them. I think they would like to have something of their own. |
You're not listening, you're not being rational, and you're being chaotically emotional and overdoing it with hyperbole and outright lies.
A "cure" is something that removes the entire condition.
And you are putting words in the mouths of people who aren't you - you don't know that they want to be "fixed."
I don't have to have evidence that people want to remain impaired. I know from experience that lots of people don't like having decisions made for them, though, and it's not fair to force people to take a cure if they don't want one.
I was trying to advocate people treating each other like people and not empty husks. Because that is the current reality and it sucks.
I'm not saying "be super nice," I'm saying, "don't treat them like they have nothing going on in their heads because they can still freaking hear and understand you." I'm also saying not to treat people like they're nothing but a drain on society, because I don't know anyone who wants to be considered a drain on society. |
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LennytheWicked
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2011
Posts: 516
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| nostromo wrote: | | theimperiousdork wrote: |
- Can you explain one of its members wanting to murder her own son?
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She was in a depressed and psychotic state where it seemed to be solution to problems, real or imagined. Whats the relevance? Seems like maybe an attempt to discredit an organization you oppose by association? |
Uh, even if she was, as an authority figure of sorts she should not have brought that up in the first place. It would be one thing to admit it behind closed doors, but to a camera crew and thus the entire world? That's irresponsible - it makes it seem like it's OK to want to kill someone just because they're autistic. Or to actually do it.
It was also irresponsible of the editor to put that clip in the film - obviously the sentiment was shared or they would have cut it out. |
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dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| LennytheWicked wrote: |
You're not listening, you're not being rational, and you're being chaotically emotional and overdoing it with hyperbole and outright lies. |
Your comebacks aren't even laughable.
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A "cure" is something that removes the entire condition.
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Prove it.
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And you are putting words in the mouths of people who aren't you - you don't know that they want to be "fixed."
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Nobody wants to have low IQs. Nobody wants to have language impairments. Nobody likes being socially inept. Nobody likes having weak motor skills/coordination. There is no reasonable or feasible doubt that they want those things fixed.
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I don't have to have evidence that people want to remain impaired. I know from experience that lots of people don't like having decisions made for them, though, and it's not fair to force people to take a cure if they don't want one.
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Ah, you don't need evidence. I wonder why your word is of such higher worth compared to others. What does wanting to remain impaired have to do with not liking having decisions made for them? Being impaired leads to lack of choices and to the power and domination of others. Don't distract from that reality. Nobody is forcing cure on anyone. You have no evidence of that. |
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LennytheWicked
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 23, 2011
Posts: 516
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| dalurker wrote: | | LennytheWicked wrote: |
You're not listening, you're not being rational, and you're being chaotically emotional and overdoing it with hyperbole and outright lies. |
Your comebacks aren't even laughable.
| Quote: |
A "cure" is something that removes the entire condition.
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Prove it.
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And you are putting words in the mouths of people who aren't you - you don't know that they want to be "fixed."
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Nobody wants to have low IQs. Nobody wants to have language impairments. Nobody likes being socially inept. Nobody likes having weak motor skills/coordination. There is no reasonable or feasible doubt that they want those things fixed.
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I don't have to have evidence that people want to remain impaired. I know from experience that lots of people don't like having decisions made for them, though, and it's not fair to force people to take a cure if they don't want one.
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Ah, you don't need evidence. I wonder why your word is of such higher worth compared to others. What does wanting to remain impaired have to do with not liking having decisions made for them? Being impaired leads to lack of choices and to the power and domination of others. Don't distract from that reality. Nobody is forcing cure on anyone. You have no evidence of that. |
Actually, the reason I don't bring up "evidence" is because my word doesn't mean more than that of others. They can come out and say it themselves, and they do.
Antibiotics are a cure for a bacterial infection. Death is a cure for life. And all that good sh**.
You don't know that these things actually bother them. I am socially inept, and I really don't give a damn anymore. I have a speech impediment, which doesn't bother me, I have poor coordination [I bump into everything that's not in my direct line of sight when I walk] and motor skills, which hurts because I keep walking into stuff but oh freaking well. Did you know that there are people with bipolar disorder who actually like the highs and lows? This isn't really that different.
There are parents who would force a cure for autism on their children, even if the children were verbal and could function, and I take an example from homophobic parents with homosexual children. There are actually seminars where people take their kids to try to talk them out of being gay or "cure" them of their homosexuality. The homosexuality doesn't really affect them in an adverse way at all, and yet the parents see them as somehow deficient.
There are parents who had their autistic children drink bleach because a "study" showed that bleach "improved" their symptoms.
Somehow I don't think that those parents really want what's best for their children. |
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Delphiki
Launchie
Joined: Apr 15, 2012
Age: 23
Posts: 1350
Location: My own version of reality
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:57 am Post subject: |
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@theimperiousdork: Isn't it hypocritical that you are going on this site and telling us how autism speaks is bad? It is apparant that you know that autism speaks helps fund this site, but you are still using it. Yes it is to spread the truth, sure, but you are still using a site funded by autism speaks.
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dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| LennytheWicked wrote: |
You don't know that these things actually bother them. I am socially inept, and I really don't give a damn anymore. I have a speech impediment, which doesn't bother me, I have poor coordination [I bump into everything that's not in my direct line of sight when I walk] and motor skills, which hurts because I keep walking into stuff but oh freaking well. Did you know that there are people with bipolar disorder who actually like the highs and lows? This isn't really that different.
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Well, then I guess I'm just an incorrigible rebel who doesn't know his place, as I loathe living with my impairments. I haven't been pacified.
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There are parents who would force a cure for autism on their children, even if the children were verbal and could function, and I take an example from homophobic parents with homosexual children. There are actually seminars where people take their kids to try to talk them out of being gay or "cure" them of their homosexuality. The homosexuality doesn't really affect them in an adverse way at all, and yet the parents see them as somehow deficient.
There are parents who had their autistic children drink bleach because a "study" showed that bleach "improved" their symptoms.
Somehow I don't think that those parents really want what's best for their children. |
Children aren't capable of looking out for their own interests. Adults make decisions for them. If someone is that functional, cure wouldn't have a meaning. It's not possible to cure impairments that don't exist. Homophobia isn't an example as it's not part of this topic. Those parents don't have a right to do things like have bleach administered as a treatment, nor do whoever else did that. But an actual cure isn't just something for a parent to decide, but is something that society and its professionals are obligated to carry out. |
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theimperiousdork
War resumes!
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
Posts: 5896
Location: Secret
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Delphiki wrote: | | @theimperiousdork: Isn't it hypocritical that you are going on this site and telling us how autism speaks is bad? It is apparant that you know that autism speaks helps fund this site, but you are still using it. Yes it is to spread the truth, sure, but you are still using a site funded by autism speaks. |
It is not hypocritical. It is what we call fighting the battle in the adversary's own arena. And I rested my case already, so don't start on it again.
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Delphiki
Launchie
Joined: Apr 15, 2012
Age: 23
Posts: 1350
Location: My own version of reality
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| theimperiousdork wrote: | | Delphiki wrote: | | @theimperiousdork: Isn't it hypocritical that you are going on this site and telling us how autism speaks is bad? It is apparant that you know that autism speaks helps fund this site, but you are still using it. Yes it is to spread the truth, sure, but you are still using a site funded by autism speaks. |
It is not hypocritical. It is what we call fighting the battle in the adversary's own arena. And I rested my case already, so don't start on it again. |
Then do not feel the need to reply to this. If you were against sliqua (not saying there is any reason to be) then I would understand the "adversary's own arena. But I haven't seen Autism Speaks people here very much, if at all. Partially funded doesn't equal "their own arena"
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theimperiousdork
War resumes!
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
Posts: 5896
Location: Secret
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Delphiki wrote: | | theimperiousdork wrote: | | Delphiki wrote: | | @theimperiousdork: Isn't it hypocritical that you are going on this site and telling us how autism speaks is bad? It is apparant that you know that autism speaks helps fund this site, but you are still using it. Yes it is to spread the truth, sure, but you are still using a site funded by autism speaks. |
It is not hypocritical. It is what we call fighting the battle in the adversary's own arena. And I rested my case already, so don't start on it again. |
Then do not feel the need to reply to this. If you were against sliqua (not saying there is any reason to be) then I would understand the "adversary's own arena. But I haven't seen Autism Speaks people here very much, if at all. Partially funded doesn't equal "their own arena" |
But since you started on it, I might as well ride along, not with lengthy diatribes as I did with aghogday, but with statements.
If you're a football fan (association, not gridiron), you ever heard of Man City (an Etihad-sponsored team) playing against Arsenal at their own stadium sponsored by Emirates? Kind of works that way. I am fighting against that vile group you were talking about in an arena that they happen to sponsor.
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vermontsavant
My father 1934 to 2010
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Age: 37
Posts: 1779
Location: Bellows Falls,Vermont USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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A FEW FUN FACTS
1.wrongplanet is not owned by autism speaks
2.wrongplanet gets some funding from autism speaks
3.most of wrongplanets member do not suport autism speaks
4.no poster who has spoken out against autism speaks has ever been censured.
5.some posters who bully or try to intimidate those who defend autism speaks have been sanctioned but only because they made personal attacks
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Delphiki
Launchie
Joined: Apr 15, 2012
Age: 23
Posts: 1350
Location: My own version of reality
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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I have heard of the team Arsenal through a book series but sense I am american I could not understand the analogy, a lot of the names are ones I haven't heard of before.
So would you go to a NASCAR stadium (which is sponsored by autism speaks) and scream about how autism speaks is a vile company worse than the KKK?
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theimperiousdork
War resumes!
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
Posts: 5896
Location: Secret
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Delphiki wrote: | I have heard of the team Arsenal through a book series but sense I am american I could not understand the analogy, a lot of the names are ones I haven't heard of before.
So would you go to a NASCAR stadium (which is sponsored by autism speaks) and scream about how autism speaks is a vile company worse than the KKK? |
Well, I can do that, but only if the stadium holds a large-scale debate involving Autism Speaks supporters and detractors, not on a NASCAR race where people don't know who Autism Speaks is or whatever.
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