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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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 Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| The American Civil War was a good one. |
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Lord_Gareth
Velociraptor
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
Posts: 440
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | The American Civil War was a good one. |
No. Like all civil wars it was a horrific waste of life, and unlike many civil wars it was fought on an unprecedented geographic scale. The American Civil War was a charnal house that one side (I'll give you a hint: the losing one) managed to learn nothing from.
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Et in Arcadia ego. - "Even in Arcadia, there am I." |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| Lord_Gareth wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | The American Civil War was a good one. |
No. Like all civil wars it was a horrific waste of life, and unlike many civil wars it was fought on an unprecedented geographic scale. The American Civil War was a charnal house that one side (I'll give you a hint: the losing one) managed to learn nothing from. |
Funny yet it was the losing side that got the civil rights bill passed. |
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ArrantPariah
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 31, 2012
Posts: 4863
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Great wars past and present. |
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| Raptor wrote: |
Duh, the reason for not tolerating a communist Cuba is because of the very close proximity of Cuba to the US. In a word; fallout.
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Huh? 
I don't follow your reasoning, even if you do begin your statement with "Duh."
Last edited by ArrantPariah on Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ArrantPariah
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 31, 2012
Posts: 4863
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | Lord_Gareth wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | The American Civil War was a good one. |
No. Like all civil wars it was a horrific waste of life, and unlike many civil wars it was fought on an unprecedented geographic scale. The American Civil War was a charnal house that one side (I'll give you a hint: the losing one) managed to learn nothing from. |
Funny yet it was the losing side that got the civil rights bill passed. |
The descendents of the losing side voted heavily against it. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| ArrantPariah wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | Lord_Gareth wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | The American Civil War was a good one. |
No. Like all civil wars it was a horrific waste of life, and unlike many civil wars it was fought on an unprecedented geographic scale. The American Civil War was a charnal house that one side (I'll give you a hint: the losing one) managed to learn nothing from. |
Funny yet it was the losing side that got the civil rights bill passed. |
The descendents of the losing side voted heavily against it. |
Thats okay I am from North Carolina we where against it too we had the fewest slaves here  |
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slave
Always stuck between 13-38Hz and tired of it.
Joined: Feb 29, 2012
Age: 100
Posts: 1320
Location: Dystopia Planetia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:37 am Post subject: Re: Great wars past and present. |
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| Joker wrote: | The Cuban Revolution changed the world when Fidel Castro, and Che Guevara ovethrew Cuban Dictator Fulgencio Batista that the US put into power.
The Laotian Civil War. Was a fight between Communist Pathet Lao often North Vietnamese of Lao ancestry, and the Royal Lao Government in which both the political rightis and leftists received heavy external support for a proxy war from the global Cold War superpowers.
Congo Crisis. (1960-1966) was a period fo turmoil in the First Repubic of the Congo that began with national independence from Belguim and ended with seizing of power by Joseph Mobutu.
War over Water. refers to a series of confrontations between Israel and Abrab neighbors from Novermber 1964 to May 1967 over control of available water sources in the Jodan River drainage basin.
I could go on and on their has been so many great battlaes their out history. |
What is so great about war?
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Since the birth of civilization, masters have controlled the masses.Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them.They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. Any who resist will be destroyed.I will not resist. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:39 am Post subject: Re: Great wars past and present. |
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| slave wrote: | | Joker wrote: | The Cuban Revolution changed the world when Fidel Castro, and Che Guevara ovethrew Cuban Dictator Fulgencio Batista that the US put into power.
The Laotian Civil War. Was a fight between Communist Pathet Lao often North Vietnamese of Lao ancestry, and the Royal Lao Government in which both the political rightis and leftists received heavy external support for a proxy war from the global Cold War superpowers.
Congo Crisis. (1960-1966) was a period fo turmoil in the First Repubic of the Congo that began with national independence from Belguim and ended with seizing of power by Joseph Mobutu.
War over Water. refers to a series of confrontations between Israel and Abrab neighbors from Novermber 1964 to May 1967 over control of available water sources in the Jodan River drainage basin.
I could go on and on their has been so many great battlaes their out history. |
What is so great about war? |
The History and the impact it had. |
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12766
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:53 am Post subject: |
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The Greek and Persian wars.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29316
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | The American Civil War was a good one. |
It was unnecessary. Slavery would have died of its own inefficiencies in another generation. The Abolitionist Crazies provoked an unnecessary war, the bloodiest war in American history.
ruveyn |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29316
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Kraichgauer wrote: |
That's because ruveyn has to imagine that everyone in Germany and Japan were irredeemably evil. Thankfully, the rest of the world knows that people can learn from their mistakes and change.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Read -Hitler's Willing Executioners- by Daniel Goldhagen.
The Germans -of that generation- bought the Nazi lie willingly and enthusiastically. They danced and sang and seig-heiled loudly and happily. And then the bombs rained down on the. As Sir Arthur Harris said the Germans sowed the wind and in due course reaped the whirlwind.
Fortunately their children and grand-children turned out better. That is because the Allies occupied Germany and prevented another "stab in the back" myth from arising. The Allies made sure that the herrenvolk know they were beaten soundly and rubbed their faces in the mud just to emphasize the point. When the "super race" finally realized they weren't so super after all, matters improved. Now Germany is a normal country and its not ruled by a demonic evil spirit. That dubious distinction now belongs to the Islamic nations. Satan is alive and well in those nations. The Devil never sleeps.
ruveyn |
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ArrantPariah
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 31, 2012
Posts: 4863
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | The American Civil War was a good one. |
It was unnecessary. Slavery would have died of its own inefficiencies in another generation. The Abolitionist Crazies provoked an unnecessary war, the bloodiest war in American history.
ruveyn |
What makes you so sure about that? |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29316
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| ArrantPariah wrote: | | ruveyn wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | The American Civil War was a good one. |
It was unnecessary. Slavery would have died of its own inefficiencies in another generation. The Abolitionist Crazies provoked an unnecessary war, the bloodiest war in American history.
ruveyn |
What makes you so sure about that? |
The cost of maintaining a slave (including the cost of preventing his escape) was nearly equal to his output. As soon as a cotton picking machine was invented the slaves would have been an economic liability.
In 1890 the Brazilians abolished slavery for precisely that reason. The cost of importing and using slaves was just too great. Brazil did not have a civil war.
ruveyn |
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12766
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | The American Civil War was a good one. |
It was unnecessary. Slavery would have died of its own inefficiencies in another generation. The Abolitionist Crazies provoked an unnecessary war, the bloodiest war in American history.
ruveyn |
Or maybe not. Slavery was a means of obtaining social status in the Antebellum south. Slavery was already an unworkable, heavy handed institution by the time the war had started, but the south was prepared to secede for the sake of keeping it alive, because social status had become everything to them.
Then there is the question - - why should the slaves wait another generation, or even another minute, to gain their freedom? Would any of us?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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enrico_dandolo
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 21, 2011
Posts: 866
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | The Germans -of that generation- bought the Nazi lie willingly and enthusiastically. They danced and sang and seig-heiled loudly and happily. And then the bombs rained down on the. As Sir Arthur Harris said the Germans sowed the wind and in due course reaped the whirlwind.
Fortunately their children and grand-children turned out better. That is because the Allies occupied Germany and prevented another "stab in the back" myth from arising. The Allies made sure that the herrenvolk know they were beaten soundly and rubbed their faces in the mud just to emphasize the point. When the "super race" finally realized they weren't so super after all, matters improved. Now Germany is a normal country and its not ruled by a demonic evil spirit. That dubious distinction now belongs to the Islamic nations. Satan is alive and well in those nations. The Devil never sleeps. |
The Allies just bullied the Germans, or at least, they bullied them half the time, and used them as a meat shield against the Communists the rest of it. They didn't want to "teach" anything.
Very few, anywhere in Europe, made much fuss about the occasionnal pogrom, in Germany or elsewhere, since most were neutral-to-favorable on the matter. Many politicians were open to anti-semitism. Most of what Hitler said wasn't exactly new or original, but he, unlike others, meant it, and did what he said he would with horrible literalness (though in the case of the death camps, he was relatively secretive). There were reasons to be fooled. They bought (relatively) enthousiastically not in a lie, but in a reality: a Germany that held her head high against the world, after years of perceived humiliation, an economy on the way to recovery (though not in a sustainable manner), an end to a democratic regime that was neither loved nor functionnal. Modern democracy as we know it wasn't the given it is today. Germany wasn't very different from France, for example, in its anti-democratic sentiments, except that France was two years late on rebuilding her air force and had it easy during the crisis.
If they "turned out better", it was also because they could do nothing other than see that they were wrong -- not defeated, wrong. Being defeated changes nothing. The French were soundly defeated in 1870-1871, yet wanted revenge for fifty years all the same -- revenge, I say; the Germans only wanted to reopen the Versailles treaty, diplomatically if possible. To my knowledge, few peoples are as critical and neutral when presenting their own past as the Germans, because there is not other way to see it. In the meantime, the Americans are almost incapable of anything but hagiography and self-congratulation, and the French celebrate their Résistance, which was completely benign compared to the Polish or Yugoslavian ones, while forgetting their blatant and very willing Collaboration. |
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