Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
|
 Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| OliveOilMom wrote: | y "See?" was about how people take hating Autism Speaks so personally.
I'm a parent. When I had my kids, I had no clue I had any type of autism or that there was any other type of it that didn't mess your child up for life. I imagine that most people are still that way. I didn't know different until I was told about AS and dx'd with it.
Oh. I get it now.
But most do not. And if I had a severely autistic child, one that was very low functioning, I would give anything to cure him. If a parent wouldn't care enough to want to help that child, then they don't deserve to be a parent! |
Isn't acceptance also kind of important. Maybe some of us feel alienated because everyone was so focused on wanting us to change who we are to be more normal. Maybe some lower functioning people or even higher functioning people, do want to work to be more like a neurotypical or maybe it would benefit some of them. But at the same time its hard to have a sense of identity when everyone's always pointing out everything wrong with you. I didn't even know I had any sort of autism as a kid, and I don't know anyone else did but I sure got hell for what I later found out are related to symptoms of Aspergers. I mean getting bullied is traumatizing, its not abnormal for someone to be distrustful of those trying to change them...when it reminds them of those experiances. The mentally ill person may not be able to understand whether or not the therapists and such have good intentions and that can be disturbing to them.
So there is certainly some truth to what you say, but I don't know that it is so much the mentally ill or autistic individuals choice to react to things in such ways, maybe you don't either. I mean since there is not currently a cure I do not see what is wrong with accepting autistic invidiuals and trying to give them a positive environment is not a bad idea. Just my opinion maybe therapy in which they use adverse conditioning or whatever in which bad(autistic behavior) is either ignored or penalized and good(neurotypical) behavior is rewarded. I mean basically telling someone every aspect of them is wrong probably does not do much for their self esteem. But this is all just my opinion I don't claim to be 100% correct and I could even be wrong.
_________________
It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
OliveOilMom
Queen of cans and jars
Joined: Nov 12, 2011
Posts: 6783
Location: Living in Faulkner's nightmare
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well of course. Eventually they can get a job at the "Rock In The Corner" institute.
The "Pee Your Pants" pavilion might also offer them a job.
"Lack of Communication" is usually looking for new people.
I don't know what I was thinking.
My bad.
Go low functioning!
We should start a publicity campaign to make parents wish for this!!!!!!!
_________________
Frances
I can be a little much sometimes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| OliveOilMom wrote: | Well of course. Eventually they can get a job at the "Rock In The Corner" institute.
The "Pee Your Pants" pavilion might also offer them a job.
"Lack of Communication" is usually looking for new people.
I don't know what I was thinking.
My bad.
Go low functioning!
We should start a publicity campaign to make parents wish for this!!!!!!! |
Right then  , Anyways is it really so wrong for one to want a better society that is not so intolerant towards people with disabilities. I know if someone cannot function to the level others expect people should try to beat correct neurotypical behavior into them right? Why not acknowledge that there are good things about some of these individuals they are not empty shells to mold into whatever the general public would like they are people with emotions, feelings and thoughts and that should be acknowledged more. Why should someone be made to feel bad about themselves because they have a disorder they did not choose to have? Also considering how high the rate of mental illness is in this country I think it reflects a sick society rather than a rise in sick individuals.
_________________
It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
androbot2084
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 24, 2011
Posts: 3099
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| What about all those neurotypicals that love to dump oil in the Gulf of Mexico ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
dyingofpoetry
Woodland Elf
Joined: Apr 26, 2010
Posts: 1195
Location: Fairmont, WV
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| OliveOilMom wrote: | y "See?" was about how people take hating Autism Speaks so personally.
I'm a parent. When I had my kids, I had no clue I had any type of autism or that there was any other type of it that didn't mess your child up for life. I imagine that most people are still that way. I didn't know different until I was told about AS and dx'd with it.
Oh. I get it now.
But most do not. And if I had a severely autistic child, one that was very low functioning, I would give anything to cure him. If a parent wouldn't care enough to want to help that child, then they don't deserve to be a parent! |
But what if the child does not want to be "cured"? What if the child merely wishes more than anything that the parent would adjust to him/her? (And before I get hated on, everyone please keep in mind that these are rhetorical questions and I am not claiming to "speak for" anyone... um... hm... I may have inadvertently made another point.)
_________________
"If you can't call someone else an idiot, then you are obviously not very good at what you do." |
|
| Back to top |
|
androbot2084
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 24, 2011
Posts: 3099
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The autistic child wishes that people were more like him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
dyingofpoetry
Woodland Elf
Joined: Apr 26, 2010
Posts: 1195
Location: Fairmont, WV
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| androbot2084 wrote: | | The autistic child wishes that people were more like him. |
+1 
_________________
"If you can't call someone else an idiot, then you are obviously not very good at what you do." |
|
| Back to top |
|
dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I think that pushing anti-cure ideas is bullying. |
|
| Back to top |
|
dyingofpoetry
Woodland Elf
Joined: Apr 26, 2010
Posts: 1195
Location: Fairmont, WV
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dalurker wrote: | | I consider going around being anti-cure as being a bully. |
So, to force an individual to change in way that may be extremely disturbing for him or her isn't bullying? I've dealt with a lot of bullys in my life and it seems tme that that's exactly what bullying is.
_________________
"If you can't call someone else an idiot, then you are obviously not very good at what you do." |
|
| Back to top |
|
Inventor
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 5111
Location: New Orleans
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think we are making progress.
My bully was a teacher that would not accept that I cannot write cursive.
They were willing to make my life hell for as long as it took, The result was I left, refused to return, and still hate on that b***h. It has been over fifty years, but I have plans to get her in the next life. Also, anyone who reminds me of her.
Autism Speaks did seem to bring all of that together, we hate the autistic and are going to do something about them!
It was not like it was never a problem, up until 1974 people were put in Mental Institutions just for Aspergers. They did sound like they were calling for the good old days of ice water baths, and Thorazine.
They dithered between cure them, and extirminate them.
They got bombarded, we were not kind to a Eugenics Organization preaching Genocide.
In the beginning all you had to do was go to their web site and join, and say, I am Autistic... and be instantly banned.
They were guilty, and were being run by Marketing and Security.
Wrong Planet was a growing platform, and they were losing the Infowars.
The people they claimed to be helping while collecting $50 Million a year, universally hated them.
Their message of extirminating this disease was not going over well with parents who were looking for something, but wanted to keep the kid.
They had made a great marketing error, they lost the support of the people they claimed to help. They were still raking in the bucks from Corporate tax dodges, and the great uneducated, who will hold torch lit marches through the streets for lots of reasons.
Mostly due to the wonders of web searches, WP posts about how Autism Speaks has a plan to Cure the Jews, were showing up when autism speaks was searched, or cure the jews.
After a couple of years of Autism Speaks Final Solution for Autism vs the 4chan of autistics having fun insulting them, our message got through.
They tried a few outs, we are not out to kill current autistics, just prevent them from being born, so life will be perfect, like Jesus wants.
That did not go over so well, and was besides genocide, also bad science.
Genetics was their last best hope, and as the markers came in, they just kept coming, 3, then 7, then, 13, and now nearing several hundred. No simple test was going to detirmine who was autistic.
The identical twins study was the final nail, twins share everything, but not autism.
They had failed, lost their purpose, and without genocide, their life had no meaning.
There was nothing left but to support autistics, and even have some token autistic friends.
Marketing and Security had failed, and that quite Science Person that had been pushed aside by Marketing was asked their opinion. Their view sounded a lot like Wrong Planet, for being a science geek, they would fit in. 30% of people are somewhat autistic, and the world would not be a better place without them. Eradicating Grad Students and Post Docs is just wrong.
Science got promoted, Marketing got downsized, and Alex got hired to make videos that would not bring the wrath of the web. John Elder Robison was making a name as an autistic writer, and after promising not to kill him, he was invited to join, as a minor player.
The influance of Alex, John, Science, and some Ethics, transformed them. The only place for them was as supporters of the autistic.
It works, they get less complaints from the web, more insider information, and we have found common ground, we want the knowledge of autism and what might work sometimes for some people.
Out of all autistic, most do function, I did, but late in life discovered that me was what was described as autistic, where I had just thought it me. Knowing is better. Education of autistics is important. Knowing how all those other different people function is something you are not likely to discover on your own. I am a lifetime fail at eye contact, tone of voice, and body language, all of which people have written books about, and I a reader. I never knew, I should have.
The minority, low function, have been shown to improve if someone takes the time to do the right things. Also if someone will figure out the right things, write books about it, set up training courses, and do testing to quality check the product, with endless improvment.
This has become the main focus of Autism Speaks, and it is a path with heart.
From life in an Institution, to a Group Home, or to your own apartment, to being able to go out and find your way back, to become involved in life, each little step is a better life someone will live, that takes knowledge, effort, money, and the focus is there now.
Autism Speaks was born rich, put together by some top Executives, brought in a lot of money and built a machine during the growing and figuring out what we are doing phase, a Corporate Blob with connections, that ate the small fry of autism.
I enjoyed smacking them around on the web for years. When they started changing their ways I switched to supporting them. They did show the ability to change, learn, grow as people, and that the heart of their mission was to help people with autism. It took a while to learn, they did, and still are.
The past is gone, they have become the best I could think of, and are rather large, powerful, and on our side.
When objections are listened to, changes made, needs will also be listened to, and effort put forth to meet those needs. I learned how to live with autism by trial and error, learned a lot more on WP, and it is something that can be learned and taught. No cure, just a smoother ride through life, with more good times.
We have the means to do this for ourselves, and as first wave, for all the future. I wish I had been given, The Autism Handbook, many years ago. |
|
| Back to top |
|
OliveOilMom
Queen of cans and jars
Joined: Nov 12, 2011
Posts: 6783
Location: Living in Faulkner's nightmare
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
I got snotty in my other post, but this is a topic that pushes my buttons. It pushes other peoples buttons too, I see.
The thing is, there is a difference between the very low functioning person and those of us here. The main difference is that those of us here, even those who say they are not high functioning, can communicate. Even if they can't communicate as well with words or in person, they can sit down and type out their thoughts and opinions. The people I am talking about wanting to cure (probably treat, because I doubt there will ever be a cure) are people who cannot communicate.
It's all well and good to say "Learn to understand them" and I assume their family and caregivers do just that. But don't you think they may want to communicate with more people than that? At least give them a choice! If someone doesn't want to take the cure or treatment, they don't have to. But have the choice available for those who do.
As I said, I doubt there will ever be some drug or treatment to change our neurology, just a treatment which may cause a temporary difference. If someone doesn't want to be treated, then when given the treatment they will be able to say "No, I don't want to take any more of this, thanks anyway" or they may reserve using the treatment for certain situations. (I'm imagining something that temporarily helps a person function at a higher level, I don't know if it's ever feasable or not, but it's my scenario.)
It's up to each individual to decide if they want a cure or to be treated. To say "Curing autism is wrong, do not do it" is just as bad as saying "All autistics need to be cured". We are all individuals and should be able to make the choice for ourselves. Autism Speaks is one organization that is trying to find that cure. They are also more about low functioning people, and probably wouldn't consider those of us here to be in need of any cure.
_________________
Frances
I can be a little much sometimes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sparkstorm
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Apr 27, 2012
Posts: 36
Location: Great Britain
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dalurker wrote: | | I think that pushing anti-cure ideas is bullying. |
Excuse me? Being anti-cure is bullying? None of us need curing. The point I make time and time again is that even autistics at the serious low-functioning end of the spectrum are often perfectly happy in their own world. Why try to force them into the already intolerant, NT-loving society that we have to live in?
And also, I'm not being anti-cure. You can't cure something like autism, something which isn't a disease. Therefore I'm only being logical.
So I think that pushing pro-cure ideas is fascism.
_________________
People who look for a cure for autism are basically fascists. Even severely autistic people are often happy in their own world - why change that? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sparkstorm
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Apr 27, 2012
Posts: 36
Location: Great Britain
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| OliveOilMom wrote: |
As I said, I doubt there will ever be some drug or treatment to change our neurology, just a treatment which may cause a temporary difference. If someone doesn't want to be treated, then when given the treatment they will be able to say "No, I don't want to take any more of this, thanks anyway" or they may reserve using the treatment for certain situations. (I'm imagining something that temporarily helps a person function at a higher level, I don't know if it's ever feasable or not, but it's my scenario.)
It's up to each individual to decide if they want a cure or to be treated. To say "Curing autism is wrong, do not do it" is just as bad as saying "All autistics need to be cured". We are all individuals and should be able to make the choice for ourselves. Autism Speaks is one organization that is trying to find that cure. They are also more about low functioning people, and probably wouldn't consider those of us here to be in need of any cure. |
The idea of choice is a nice one, but we all know what governments are like, particularly today's self-centred, right-wing governments.
Acceptance sits to the left, not the right.
_________________
People who look for a cure for autism are basically fascists. Even severely autistic people are often happy in their own world - why change that? |
|
| Back to top |
|
dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dyingofpoetry wrote: | | dalurker wrote: | | I consider going around being anti-cure as being a bully. |
So, to force an individual to change in way that may be extremely disturbing for him or her isn't bullying? I've dealt with a lot of bullys in my life and it seems tme that that's exactly what bullying is. |
It's not disturbing. It's not forcing. Losing serious impairments is not disturbing. Nobody believes you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sparkstorm
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Apr 27, 2012
Posts: 36
Location: Great Britain
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dalurker wrote: | | dyingofpoetry wrote: | | dalurker wrote: | | I consider going around being anti-cure as being a bully. |
So, to force an individual to change in way that may be extremely disturbing for him or her isn't bullying? I've dealt with a lot of bullys in my life and it seems tme that that's exactly what bullying is. |
It's not disturbing. It's not forcing. Losing serious impairments is not disturbing. Nobody believes you. |
Nobody? I reckon at least half of the autistic self-advocate community is anti-cure.
I don't consider it anti-cure though. I consider it logical. Since autism isn't a disease, logic dictates that it can't be cured.
_________________
People who look for a cure for autism are basically fascists. Even severely autistic people are often happy in their own world - why change that? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
