Joined: Oct 17, 2009 Age: 45 Posts: 5754 Location: Vancouver, BC
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:38 pm Post subject:
Longshanks wrote:
The howling begins. In answer to your question, liberals are. Liberals force their views down peoples throats more than conservatives would ever dream of doing. Again, I have history to back me up on this. And you yourself have condemned and mocked many of my previous posts. In Wisconsin, we have liberals shoving their viewpoint down our throats all the time! Just look at the Walker recalls. Only now, the liberals are beginning to learn that people get ticked off when liberals do that - so they vote conservative. And Barack Obama is shoving his viewpoints down our throats now, which is why he is dropping in the polls. And as far as I'm concerned, he's a more urbane version of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung.
Longshanks
No, the howling continues. Minorities have been complaining about majority repression for centuries--this is merely the newest face on an age old problem.
And still, I am left with the question: What, precisely, is being forced down your throat? A viewpoint? Is your intellectual foundation so precarious that you are threatened by a viewpoint?!? I welcome dissent--I think our societies are made richer by the fact that we don't all agree on a single set of values. I would not tolerate a society in which your freedom to worship as a Southern Baptist and your right to call me a sinner was not vigourously protected. But you complain of a viewpoint being shoved down your throat?
Now as for practical impacts of liberalism, I will not deny that liberal administrations seek to put regulations in the workplace, and see a larger role for government in the delivery of certain programs. I respect the view of small-government conservatives, but I cannot agree with it. However, the religious right seeks to regulate in the home and in the bedroom to a degree that is far more offensive, to my way of thinking, than any liberal program that you would seek to complain of. _________________ --James
Joined: Oct 17, 2009 Age: 45 Posts: 5754 Location: Vancouver, BC
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:30 pm Post subject:
JWC wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
What, precisely, is being forced down your throat?
The bill. We pay so you can play.
What are you paying for that enables me to play?
Frankly, I am willing to wager that I pay more than you in percentage terms, given the slightly higher marginal income tax rates in Canada, and the presence of a general consumption tax. This is the price that each of us pays for living in a civilized society. I will complain when my government misuses my taxes. I will complain when the government uses my taxes for purposes with which I do not agree. But at the end of the day, government has a right to govern, and I believe that I am better off for living in a this society than in any other, and I pay the price that living in this society requires. _________________ --James
Joined: Mar 01, 2011 Posts: 740 Location: Macondo Wellhead
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:49 pm Post subject:
visagrunt wrote:
JWC wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
What, precisely, is being forced down your throat?
The bill. We pay so you can play.
What are you paying for that enables me to play?
Frankly, I am willing to wager that I pay more than you in percentage terms, given the slightly higher marginal income tax rates in Canada, and the presence of a general consumption tax. This is the price that each of us pays for living in a civilized society. I will complain when my government misuses my taxes. I will complain when the government uses my taxes for purposes with which I do not agree. But at the end of the day, government has a right to govern, and I believe that I am better off for living in a this society than in any other, and I pay the price that living in this society requires.
"You" was meant figuratively. Sorry, thought that was obvious.
Joined: Mar 09, 2007 Posts: 4511 Location: Southeast U.S.A.
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:36 pm Post subject:
visagrunt wrote:
Quote:
However, the religious right seeks to regulate in the home and in the bedroom to a degree that is far more offensive, to my way of thinking, than any liberal program that you would seek to complain of.
And the left has done nothing to control what we do in our homes? As far as the bedroom goes I have yet to hear of any law requiring surveillance cameras in bedrooms.
Quote:
I will complain when the government uses my taxes for purposes with which I do not agree.
Money managed by the government is being misused one way or another. If it’s not being used to fund things you don’t believe in it’s being misused in the process of funding things you do believe in. Even if the government ran a lemonade stand the lemonade would taste like piss and they’d spend five times their profits making more lemonade that tastes like piss that won’t sell.
Government exists only to serve and perpetuate itself.
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
George Washington
Joined: Feb 03, 2012 Posts: 513 Location: At an undisclosed airbase at Shangri-la
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject:
Delphiki wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
The howling begins. In answer to your question, liberals are. Liberals force their views down peoples throats more than conservatives would ever dream of doing. Again, I have history to back me up on this. And you yourself have condemned and mocked many of my previous posts. In Wisconsin, we have liberals shoving their viewpoint down our throats all the time! Just look at the Walker recalls. Only now, the liberals are beginning to learn that people get ticked off when liberals do that - so they vote conservative. And Barack Obama is shoving his viewpoints down our throats now, which is why he is dropping in the polls. And as far as I'm concerned, he's a more urbane version of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung.
Longshanks
That is your opinion. I get many emails from my very republican family everyday. You are acting like 50% of the population are completely different than the other (at least that is how it seems to me)
You're just as bad.
Longshanks _________________ Supporter of the Brian Terry Foundation @ www.honorbrianterry.com. Special Agent Brian Terry (1970-2010) was murdered as a direct result of Operation Fast & Furious - which Barry O won't discuss - wonder why?
Joined: Apr 15, 2012 Age: 23 Posts: 1350 Location: My own version of reality
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:39 pm Post subject:
Longshanks wrote:
Delphiki wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
The howling begins. In answer to your question, liberals are. Liberals force their views down peoples throats more than conservatives would ever dream of doing. Again, I have history to back me up on this. And you yourself have condemned and mocked many of my previous posts. In Wisconsin, we have liberals shoving their viewpoint down our throats all the time! Just look at the Walker recalls. Only now, the liberals are beginning to learn that people get ticked off when liberals do that - so they vote conservative. And Barack Obama is shoving his viewpoints down our throats now, which is why he is dropping in the polls. And as far as I'm concerned, he's a more urbane version of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung.
Longshanks
That is your opinion. I get many emails from my very republican family everyday. You are acting like 50% of the population are completely different than the other (at least that is how it seems to me)
You're just as bad.
Longshanks
Just as bad with what? When have I forced my views? _________________ Trolls exist! They steal your socks, but only the left ones. I wonder what is up with that?
The howling begins. In answer to your question, liberals are. Liberals force their views down peoples throats more than conservatives would ever dream of doing. Again, I have history to back me up on this. And you yourself have condemned and mocked many of my previous posts. In Wisconsin, we have liberals shoving their viewpoint down our throats all the time! Just look at the Walker recalls. Only now, the liberals are beginning to learn that people get ticked off when liberals do that - so they vote conservative. And Barack Obama is shoving his viewpoints down our throats now, which is why he is dropping in the polls. And as far as I'm concerned, he's a more urbane version of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung.
Longshanks
That is your opinion. I get many emails from my very republican family everyday. You are acting like 50% of the population are completely different than the other (at least that is how it seems to me)
You're just as bad.
Longshanks
Just as bad with what? When have I forced my views?
Southern Whites felt that Civil Rights was "being forced down their throats." It was indeed a bitter pill to swallow.
Actually, American liberals are more akin to being facists - which is socialism with property rights. Any way you look at it, however, facists, communists, socialists, all three groups are extremists and really should be outlawed - especially when you look at the pogroms in Germany, Russia, and China that have resulted in the deaths of millions. History has recorded that and none of them can deny it. Now you just watch! There's going to be some howling in Georgia over this post! But that's okay. Liberals never were very good at acknowledging history and reality.
Longshanks
What precisely would you outlaw? A set of beliefs? A political opinion? What kind of society do you believe you could create by using the law as a tool to suppress political opposition.
To my way of thinking you would create exactly the sort of state that allowed the events that you complain of from Germany, Russia and China. Germany during the Second World War, the Soviet Union and the PRC are all examples where dissenting political views have been outlawed. Perhaps, then, the progroms that resulted in the deaths of millions were not merely a symptom of fascism, marxist-leninism, stalinism or maoism, but were, in fact, a predictable result of a political system that sought to exclude all others.
You see the big difference between my liberalism and your politics (so far as I understand them from your posts) is that I am content to see you live your life in any way that you choose, within the confines of law. If you want to worship as a southern baptist--by all means do so. If you want to believe me sinful and akin to a fascits--by all means do so.
But you, on the other hand, would happily see an environment in which my right to life my life as I see fit could be curtailed by a majority vote.
So who's the fascist now?
The howling begins.
Howling?!?!?!?
Longshanks wrote:
In answer to your question, liberals are. Liberals force their views down peoples throats more than conservatives would ever dream of doing. Again, I have history to back me up on this.
Really? Or are you just glorifying yourself again?
Longshanks wrote:
And you yourself have condemned and mocked many of my previous posts.
You have to admit that your posts are quite mockable, to say the least.
Longshanks wrote:
In Wisconsin, we have liberals shoving their viewpoint down our throats all the time! Just look at the Walker recalls. Only now, the liberals are beginning to learn that people get ticked off when liberals do that - so they vote conservative.
Glory, glory Halleluyah.
Longshanks wrote:
And Barack Obama is shoving his viewpoints down our throats now, which is why he is dropping in the polls. And as far as I'm concerned, he's a more urbane version of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung.
How about Genghis Khan? Or, as he is a Moslem, maybe Suleiman the Magnificent? Or Saddam Hussein?
Money managed by the government is being misused one way or another. If it’s not being used to fund things you don’t believe in it’s being misused in the process of funding things you do believe in. Even if the government ran a lemonade stand the lemonade would taste like piss and they’d spend five times their profits making more lemonade that tastes like piss that won’t sell.
Government exists only to serve and perpetuate itself.
Joined: Oct 17, 2009 Age: 45 Posts: 5754 Location: Vancouver, BC
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:38 am Post subject:
Raptor wrote:
And the left has done nothing to control what we do in our homes? As far as the bedroom goes I have yet to hear of any law requiring surveillance cameras in bedrooms.
How many jurisdictions continue to criminalize homosexual behaviour? How many social conservatives call for restoration of laws criminalizing it in those jurisdictions that have decriminalized it?
Limiting access to marriage is far more invasive than anything that you can complain of. Social conservatives seek to use the coercive power of government to control adult, consensual sexual behaviour. Until you can demonstrate liberals doing something comparable I will continue to reject your argument.
Quote:
Money managed by the government is being misused one way or another. If it’s not being used to fund things you don’t believe in it’s being misused in the process of funding things you do believe in. Even if the government ran a lemonade stand the lemonade would taste like piss and they’d spend five times their profits making more lemonade that tastes like piss that won’t sell.
Government exists only to serve and perpetuate itself.
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
George Washington
But government is not in the business of doing business. That is not its purpose, and it should not be measured as if that was the case.
Business is easy. There is one, and only one, metric for success: making money. Every investment can be measured against its net present value and a decision taken on a very simple basis. Now that's not to say that the analysis isn't complex, and it's not to say that business doesn't get it wrong from time to time. But businesses can come and go without the whole house of cards falling.
Government, on the other hand, has dozens of measures for success. Suppose a decision has to be made about where to put health care money--does that go into providing more emergency care, cancer treatment or health prevention? When spending new education money should that go into more classrooms for arts and music, physical education or expanding sciences?
Public policy making is a daily litany of these decisions where there is no right answer, and rarely even a best answer. There are always more priorities than there is money to spend on them.
So don't try and tell me that government couldn't run a lemonade stand, because any moron can run a lemonade stand, but it takes the wisdom of Solomon and the patience of a saint to put up with the host of pressures that exist in the public policy world, and no easy path to decision making. _________________ --James
Joined: Feb 03, 2012 Posts: 513 Location: At an undisclosed airbase at Shangri-la
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:01 pm Post subject:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Delphiki wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
Delphiki wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
The howling begins. In answer to your question, liberals are. Liberals force their views down peoples throats more than conservatives would ever dream of doing. Again, I have history to back me up on this. And you yourself have condemned and mocked many of my previous posts. In Wisconsin, we have liberals shoving their viewpoint down our throats all the time! Just look at the Walker recalls. Only now, the liberals are beginning to learn that people get ticked off when liberals do that - so they vote conservative. And Barack Obama is shoving his viewpoints down our throats now, which is why he is dropping in the polls. And as far as I'm concerned, he's a more urbane version of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung.
Longshanks
That is your opinion. I get many emails from my very republican family everyday. You are acting like 50% of the population are completely different than the other (at least that is how it seems to me)
You're just as bad.
Longshanks
Just as bad with what? When have I forced my views?
Southern Whites felt that Civil Rights was "being forced down their throats." It was indeed a bitter pill to swallow.
You're as selective as Kirchgauer - and as easy to impeach. 1. You failed to mention that Eisenhower, a republican, got that ball rolling. He also desegregated the armed forces, something that Roosevelt and Truman, who were democrats, refused to do. 2. Are you not also forgetting that the "southern whites" that you are refering to, such as George Wallace, were democrats? 3. Are you also not forgetting that it was a republican dominated congress and a republican president who passed the constitutional amendments banning slavery, allowing blacks to vote, and the fourteenth amendment as well? 4. Are you not forgetting that those who attempted to seccede from the union were led by prominent democrats (Davis, Breckinridge, Cobb, Yancey, Benjamin, Floyd, Wise, Pickens, Thompson, and many others) and did so because of slavery? 5. Are you not forgetting that the writers of the constitution had the law banning slavery in the original document, but it was taken out to ensure that the southern states would sign it? Your statement is not only inflamatory but entirely disingenuous. All Eisenhower did was enforce the laws he was sworn to uphold. They were already in place since the end of a war that cost America more lives than any other. Your attempt to re-write history is failing.
And lest we not forget, the courts have ruled that atheism is also a religion. And now the atheists are attempting to force theirreligious views on we Chrisitians. And the judges of the liberal left are letting them - even encouraging them to do it. Seems to me that is an infringement of the first amendment because liberal judges are not empowered to create a state religion, which is what they are attempting to do with atheism. It is the same with gay-marriage. Marriage is a religious institution. How dare they attempt to force Christians to change their religion by forcing them to recognize something repugnant to their religious beliefs - thus forcing them to ignore their conscience - again violating the first amendment. And now Obama care seeks to do the same thing with birth control and abortion.
You proudly preach - as if on the pulpit - like any "good liberal" - that you have no intent of forcing your views on others. That rather, you are only making things equitable. That you are doing things in the name of "civil rights". Yet it has been the conservative republicans who ended slavery, who legislated civil rights, and who carried through with them - while liberal democrats have actively resisted - even fought against them. History will bear me out on this. What an entertaining flow of illogic your discourse truly is!
Longhshanks _________________ Supporter of the Brian Terry Foundation @ www.honorbrianterry.com. Special Agent Brian Terry (1970-2010) was murdered as a direct result of Operation Fast & Furious - which Barry O won't discuss - wonder why?
Last edited by Longshanks on Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
