ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Rasta is about freedom and the living God
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Joined: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 7998
Location: Babylon
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 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| StuckWithin wrote: | My approach is to permanently avoid (if this is possible) those who you can tell dislike you for a simple innocent faux pas. I figure that they are always going to use your achilles heel - the innate tendency to not say or do the socially correct, unspoken thing - to demean you in front of their friends. It has happened to me MANY times, and was always a painful situation. It is even worse when it happens at work, because then it is a form of bullying that may cost you your livelihood.
I refer to such judgmental people as "raging neurotypicals". You know, forever defining their lives by the perceived approval they get from their "peeps". Such people tend to be either dismissive of Aspies or outright hostile. Once burned, I avoid the outright hostile ones with a passion.
Frankly I tend to prefer socializing with other outcasts, because I feel sympathy for them. |
Sometimes I feel myself slipping into that mode myself. I don't want to forgive faux pas, like, when people go out of their way to be rude to me. I don't want to just shrug it off. |
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again_with_this
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 14, 2012
Age: 30
Posts: 780
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe90 wrote: | | My mum is an NT, and last week I was in a busy shopping mall with her, and we were both queueing up to pay for something. When my mum got to the till, the woman looked at us both and said, ''I'll be back in a moment'', and we stood and waited. Then another cashier came along and just looked at me and said, ''do you want to be served?'' as though I was a seperate customer, even though I was standing right next to my mum and was obvious that I was with her. When we came out of the shop, I said to my mum, ''why are people so stupid? Couldn't she figure out I was just with you? If I was a seperate customer I wouldn't of been standing right next to you, I would of been carrying an item and looking over at the desk and making eye contact with the cashier, giving a clear impression that I wanted to be served. But I wasn't doing anything like that, I thought neurotypicals could read body language?'' |
Though people often shop together, they may still pay separately. This is commonplace with NT women especially. The cashier might have deduced that you were with your mother, but thought you were doing separate shopping.
That's why I try to not to jump on the whole "people are so stupid" bandwagon without at least trying to analyze other possibilities. |
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Joe90
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 8418
Location: Great Britain
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| again_with_this wrote: | | Joe90 wrote: | | My mum is an NT, and last week I was in a busy shopping mall with her, and we were both queueing up to pay for something. When my mum got to the till, the woman looked at us both and said, ''I'll be back in a moment'', and we stood and waited. Then another cashier came along and just looked at me and said, ''do you want to be served?'' as though I was a seperate customer, even though I was standing right next to my mum and was obvious that I was with her. When we came out of the shop, I said to my mum, ''why are people so stupid? Couldn't she figure out I was just with you? If I was a seperate customer I wouldn't of been standing right next to you, I would of been carrying an item and looking over at the desk and making eye contact with the cashier, giving a clear impression that I wanted to be served. But I wasn't doing anything like that, I thought neurotypicals could read body language?'' |
Though people often shop together, they may still pay separately. This is commonplace with NT women especially. The cashier might have deduced that you were with your mother, but thought you were doing separate shopping.
That's why I try to not to jump on the whole "people are so stupid" bandwagon without at least trying to analyze other possibilities. |
Yer, I know, this is what my mum pointed out. Body language doesn't explain everything about your intentions. If the cashier looked at me and sensed that I wasn't waiting to be served by looking at my body language, then she would have known by intuition what I was doing and went on to the next customer, but, like my mum said, she just saw me, as a customer, standing there by the till and thought she'd ask if she could help. That proves that NTs aren't mind-readers and so don't always know exactly what you're doing by examining your body language. So you are right.
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Real gender: Female
From: East UK
Age: 23 |
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again_with_this
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 14, 2012
Age: 30
Posts: 780
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe90 wrote: | | Yer, I know, this is what my mum pointed out. Body language doesn't explain everything about your intentions. If the cashier looked at me and sensed that I wasn't waiting to be served by looking at my body language, then she would have known by intuition what I was doing and went on to the next customer, but, like my mum said, she just saw me, as a customer, standing there by the till and thought she'd ask if she could help. That proves that NTs aren't mind-readers and so don't always know exactly what you're doing by examining your body language. So you are right. |
Yes, and two other points. 1) Do you know this second cashier was NT? 2) Moreover, shop workers are often directly told by their superiors to offer assistance to anyone who may need it. In other words, even if it seems they are "with" another customer, the workers are directed to err on the side of caution just in case there is a misreading of body language, even if it seems crystal clear to them that you didn't need help because you were with your mother. |
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Joe90
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 8418
Location: Great Britain
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| again_with_this wrote: | | Joe90 wrote: | | Yer, I know, this is what my mum pointed out. Body language doesn't explain everything about your intentions. If the cashier looked at me and sensed that I wasn't waiting to be served by looking at my body language, then she would have known by intuition what I was doing and went on to the next customer, but, like my mum said, she just saw me, as a customer, standing there by the till and thought she'd ask if she could help. That proves that NTs aren't mind-readers and so don't always know exactly what you're doing by examining your body language. So you are right. |
Yes, and two other points. 1) Do you know this second cashier was NT? 2) Moreover, shop workers are often directly told by their superiors to offer assistance to anyone who may need it. In other words, even if it seems they are "with" another customer, the workers are directed to err on the side of caution just in case there is a misreading of body language, even if it seems crystal clear to them that you didn't need help because you were with your mother. |
Yes, that is exactly what I was explaining except you've put it better. It goes to show that NTs don't get body language right every single time and so they like to make sure just in case it was a misreading of body language. And I don't know for definate if this cashier was NT or not because I didn't know her, she could've been anything (mild obviously because there was nothing strange or unusual in her actions) but I assume she probably was NT, and just because somebody is, at the time, vulnerable to body language doesn't mean you have to doubt they are NT. Everybody makes mistakes, nobody's perfect.
Thankfully I can actually read body language from instinct, I don't have the Aspie trait of being unable to read body language. Reading body language is not a frequent problem with me, so I'm quite good at expressing it and also reading it in other people, generally.
But don't bother giving me a written test on body language because I would probably get a zero.  I can only read body language when I'm not thinking about it, sometimes they say it's hard to know your own instinct because it comes naturally and only needed when a situation arises or in general mundane moments.
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again_with_this
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 14, 2012
Age: 30
Posts: 780
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe90 wrote: | Yes, that is exactly what I was explaining except you've put it better. It goes to show that NTs don't get body language right every single time and so they like to make sure just in case it was a misreading of body language. And I don't know for definate if this cashier was NT or not because I didn't know her, she could've been anything (mild obviously because there was nothing strange or unusual in her actions) but I assume she probably was NT, and just because somebody is, at the time, vulnerable to body language doesn't mean you have to doubt they are NT. Everybody makes mistakes, nobody's perfect.
Thankfully I can actually read body language from instinct, I don't have the Aspie trait of being unable to read body language. Reading body language is not a frequent problem with me, so I'm quite good at expressing it and also reading it in other people, generally.
But don't bother giving me a written test on body language because I would probably get a zero. I can only read body language when I'm not thinking about it, sometimes they say it's hard to know your own instinct because it comes naturally and only needed when a situation arises or in general mundane moments. |
A possible irony is that the person may have not been NT and truly unable to read your body language. Though she probably was NT.
I also have a theory that NTs may not be able to read Aspie body language very well. They can instinctively tell it's different. Just as you can tell Mandarin Chinese looks and sounds very different from English, you can't actually understand it the way you can English. Maybe NTs see us as aliens and don't know how to decipher our language. |
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tjr1243
Deinonychus
Joined: Apr 01, 2012
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Ann2011 wrote: | | I find people to be generally forgiving. I think they judge based on an overall impression. One facial expression will not make or break you. |
Good, because I get so nervous, my expression contorts into this most awful uptight/unhappy look (: |
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ozman
Snowy Owl
Joined: Jun 18, 2012
Posts: 161
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually in some cases where I should be serious I think I take on an immature look. I know I am doing it and I don't like it yet it still happens |
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OJani
a brat
Joined: Feb 24, 2011
Age: 40
Posts: 2322
Location: Budapest, Hungary, Europe
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| StuckWithin wrote: | My approach is to permanently avoid (if this is possible) those who you can tell dislike you for a simple innocent faux pas. I figure that they are always going to use your achilles heel - the innate tendency to not say or do the socially correct, unspoken thing - to demean you in front of their friends. It has happened to me MANY times, and was always a painful situation. It is even worse when it happens at work, because then it is a form of bullying that may cost you your livelihood.
I refer to such judgmental people as "raging neurotypicals". You know, forever defining their lives by the perceived approval they get from their "peeps". Such people tend to be either dismissive of Aspies or outright hostile - and their hostility seems to gain speed if they think that they can get social approval from within their circle by "weeding out" the weirdos. Once burned in this way, I avoid such people with a passion.
Frankly I tend to prefer socializing with other outcasts, because I feel sympathy for them. |
How true, every bit of it. But don't get paranoid over those silly people. They don't deserve your attention. |
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Joe90
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 8418
Location: Great Britain
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I also have a theory that NTs may not be able to read Aspie body language very well. They can instinctively tell it's different. Just as you can tell Mandarin Chinese looks and sounds very different from English, you can't actually understand it the way you can English. Maybe NTs see us as aliens and don't know how to decipher our language. |
Not necessarily. Maybe in some cases, but not all. I only have a mild case of AS and I have learnt to adapt to the NT world, the only differences in my actions are nerves, I can look very nervous or shy, but it's only a minor difference that does not exclude me from being recognised in a normal way to other people.
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From: East UK
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RLgnome
Raven
Joined: Jul 26, 2011
Age: 30
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| I find most people in the settings I naturally frequent rather forgiving of social mistakes. In the rest of society, I feel the majority is either forgiving, or at the very least somewhat accepting. I rarely have people yell at me or call me a retard or anything like that. Sometimes I get a vibe that they're thinking it, but at least they're not saying it. The few people who really write me off as an idiot or who can't forgive a faux pas are usually people I wouldn't want as my friends anyway. My experience is those people tend to be superficial, boring and intellectually not stimulating to be with, in general. Quite a few of them turned out to be narcissists, too, and very unhealthy to be around. So good riddance, really. |
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