Joined: Feb 13, 2010 Posts: 18124 Location: the island of loveable toy humans
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:22 am Post subject:
i still wish i had my late mother's '76 honda civic hatchback, that was a great little car. my older brother proceeded to park it under a tree out back until it rotted. it didn't deserve that ignominious fate.
Joined: Apr 16, 2012 Posts: 104 Location: The Frozen North
Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:46 am Post subject:
ruveyn wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
If a 1995 Honda still runs you must be using synthetic snake oil.
I use ordinary oil. I change the oil every 3000 miles or so. It runs like a champ.
ruveyn
What's the big deal -- I am driving a 1993 Escort - and change the oil every 10,000 to 12,000 miles - Before that I drove a 20year old van and have owned and drove a pick-up for 30 years. Fix cars and trucks when they need it and the last a long time and remain reliable. There was a US military study found that engines showed little to no wear if oil was used for about 15,000 miles.
Though, I do have to say none of my vehicles have ever made their advertized Mileage nor do the vehicles of others I know that have carefully Monitored their mileage of their vehicles. I also remembering reading that a vehicle that is driven about 100,000 miles will consume just about as much energy to drive 100,000 miles as was consumed in its manufacture. So getting a extra 100,000 or 200,000 miles out of a vehicle will greatly reduce its per mile driven energy profile. _________________ Found in an old and dusty book --- Roger's Axiom: If it is worth doing it is worth over doing!
Joined: Jun 27, 2012 Age: 25 Posts: 58 Location: Williamsburg, Va
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:03 am Post subject: Re: US could be driving cars with greater gas efficiency, BU
snapcap wrote:
This really got me angry.
US emission regulation isn't for the environment. It's a lie.
The current standard is 25.5mpg in the us. What you seem to not understand is that forcing all automakers to produce vehicles that get 60+ mpg would cause them to go broke. By 2025 they hope to have it to 50mpg. I drive a 3500 lb car with a 200hp V6 that got 25mpg, capable of getting 30mpg on long trips. Not to mention european car relaibility has fallen sharply in the last decade or so, American Car brands are reaching the reliability of japanese counterparts while european cars are dropping below american car reliability levels. Seeing as I how I dislike small displacement 4 cylinder engines, I'll stick with my American gas hog. _________________ “Schizophrenia cannot be understood without understanding despair.” R.D. Laing
Joined: Jun 27, 2012 Age: 25 Posts: 58 Location: Williamsburg, Va
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:09 am Post subject:
AceOfSpades wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
If a 1995 Honda still runs you must be using synthetic snake oil.
I use ordinary oil. I change the oil every 3000 miles or so. It runs like a champ.
ruveyn
He must've confused Honda with Ford to say something so off the wall like that.
Compared to other asian automakers, Honda isn't the most reliable. Look up Honda oil leaks, they leak live a siv from gaskets and engine seals. The only thing that makes Hondas different is you can run them forever without oil, which is a bonehead move to begin with. And synthetic oil increases mpg and engine performance, dino oil has to warm up to reach peak protection, causing more wear on the engine before it warms up. Lastly, global warming is a myth, the entire solar system is "inexplicably" getting warmer which is a direct result of the Solar Maxiumum coming up in december. _________________ “Schizophrenia cannot be understood without understanding despair.” R.D. Laing
Joined: Sep 10, 2011 Posts: 1943 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: US could be driving cars with greater gas efficiency, BU
HilarityEnsues wrote:
snapcap wrote:
This really got me angry.
US emission regulation isn't for the environment. It's a lie.
The current standard is 25.5mpg in the us. What you seem to not understand is that forcing all automakers to produce vehicles that get 60+ mpg would cause them to go broke. By 2025 they hope to have it to 50mpg. I drive a 3500 lb car with a 200hp V6 that got 25mpg, capable of getting 30mpg on long trips. Not to mention european car relaibility has fallen sharply in the last decade or so, American Car brands are reaching the reliability of japanese counterparts while european cars are dropping below american car reliability levels. Seeing as I how I dislike small displacement 4 cylinder engines, I'll stick with my American gas hog.
There's a difference in how fuel economy is measured for rating purposes (what you see on the window sticker), and for CAFE (corporate average fuel economy, under which automakers have to pay the gvmt if the average mpg of their whole lineup of vehicles doesn't meet the standard).
A vehicle rated at 25 to 35 mpg in real life is rated at about 45 mpg by CAFE standards. The current CAFE standard they are expected to meet is 35.5 mpg (actually, it's looser than that, it's been based on the size of the vehicles since last year, but it's meant to work out to roughly the same as the old standard).
Also, because this is an average, they are allowed to keep building the profitable gas hogs, as long as they also build more fuel efficient models as well. And they are allowed to build whatever the hell they please, if they are willing to pay the fees.
In other words, yes the government is trying to force automakers to meet certain fuel economy goals, but those goals are not as out of reach as they seem.
Joined: Sep 10, 2011 Posts: 1943 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:44 pm Post subject:
HilarityEnsues wrote:
Compared to other asian automakers, Honda isn't the most reliable. Look up Honda oil leaks, they leak live a siv from gaskets and engine seals. The only thing that makes Hondas different is you can run them forever without oil, which is a bonehead move to begin with. And synthetic oil increases mpg and engine performance, dino oil has to warm up to reach peak protection, causing more wear on the engine before it warms up. Lastly, global warming is a myth, the entire solar system is "inexplicably" getting warmer which is a direct result of the Solar Maxiumum coming up in december.
I was under the impression that, other than Toyota, Honda was the most reliable Japanese brand.
After Toyota, I definitely see more old Hondas still on the road than pretty much any other brand.
Joined: Jun 27, 2012 Age: 25 Posts: 58 Location: Williamsburg, Va
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:24 pm Post subject:
The American govt doesn't regulate the automotive industry. It regulates itself. I'm still in awe over how a 2 3/4 ton vehicle manages to pull off 30mpg interstate, 3.8l V6 with a 4 spd auto w/ OD.
I love my Buick _________________ “Schizophrenia cannot be understood without understanding despair.” R.D. Laing
I'm still in awe over how a 2 3/4 ton vehicle manages to pull off 30mpg interstate, 3.8l V6 with a 4 spd auto w/ OD.
I love my Buick
GM's 3.8 liter/4 speed combo is a good one. By the time they stopped building them, that engine and transmission had been around for so long that all the imperfections in their design had been fixed. Better fuel economy than you'd expect, and excellent reliability.
Joined: Jun 27, 2012 Age: 25 Posts: 58 Location: Williamsburg, Va
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject:
Yep, Made wards best 10 best list 10 years in a row. The engine has been around since 1964, and if It wasn't for the closing of the 3800 plant, It would still be around. I tend to prefer push-rod engines over OHC designs.
Anyone who doubts the power of a V6, here ya go.
That video is an homage to my Buddy in automotive classes that claims a stock SI can walk a ZR-1. HAHAH!!!
Almost forgot, Buick models equiped with the 3800 Series 3 were the first SULEV compliant vehicles in the ENTIRE industry. No OHC, No Vtec, No 4 banger.
Even the Lacrosse Super model which weighed 4000lbs, 0-60 in 5.7 seconds and got 24mpg with Displacement on Demand, one cylinder bank would shut off at cruising speeds. All with tha bad@ss LS engine under the hood. _________________ “Schizophrenia cannot be understood without understanding despair.” R.D. Laing
Joined: Jul 19, 2011 Posts: 110 Location: Midlands, UK
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:06 pm Post subject:
Good grief there's some 'interesting' stuff on this thread.
Let's see
1) European cars are just as reliable as US cars.
2) European cars are more/less economical than their equivalent counterparts in the US. Once you take into account the differences required by the different laws, the different gallon size, the different methods of testing fuel economy, different gearings etc, they're probably about the same.
3) European fuel economy claims are excessive. Not quite. the EU sets the means of testing and the UK government at least uses this to set tax levels. so the car makers design the cars to come under lower taxes under those specific driving conditions. (on a road roller) Unsurprisingly, it's very hard to meet test mpg when you have wind resistance (and the test doesn't), when you start driving with a cold engine, cold components and tyres (all warmed through in the test). The test isn't very accurate (and favours hybrids) but does allow decent comparisons.
4) The Passat in question is a European spec car with a manual (stick) transmission and a high efficiency 1600cc turbo diesel engine. It won't do the 70mpg claimed in normal driving, but will comfortably achieve 50-55mpg (UK gallons) depending on the driver etc. Yes, it only has 105bhp, but it also has about 180lbs,ft of torque, which helps normal midrange acceleration so that it doesn't FEEL so slow.
5) The particular engine is also being used in the UK in the VW Polo, VW Golf, VW Golf Plus, VW Jetta, Skoda Yeti, Skoda Roomster, Skoda Superb, Skoda Octavia, Skoda Fabia, Seat Altea, Seat Leon, Seat Ibiza, Audi A1, and Audi A3. Only the Skoda Superb is about the same weight as the Passat; all the rest are smaller and lighter.
6) European and Japanese cars are, on average, smaller, lighter, less powerful, more fuel efficient than American cars. If even a proportion of Americans drove european/japanese cars instead, you would save a huge amount of fuel (and money). You don't all NEED those huge trucks, even if you think you do.
I drive a Seat turbo diesel with 150bhp and average 48 miles per UK gallon, and I'm not a slow driver. _________________ Away with the fairies.
Good grief there's some 'interesting' stuff on this thread.
Let's see
6) European and Japanese cars are, on average, smaller, lighter, less powerful, more fuel efficient than American cars. If even a proportion of Americans drove european/japanese cars instead, you would save a huge amount of fuel (and money). You don't all NEED those huge trucks, even if you think you do.
I drive a Seat turbo diesel with 150bhp and average 48 miles per UK gallon, and I'm not a slow driver.
Many people in America drive Japenese branded cars. Hondas and Toyotas (and increasingly Hyundai and Kia's) are very popular over here. But again, these models are completely different from what you get in Europe. Compare our Honda accord (http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/) to yours (http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/accordsaloon/). Even the badges are different. Most people in the US do buy a much larger vehicle than they need, presumably for status. But during the summer on road trips our family minivan is loaded to the brim (boat on the rood, three bikes on a rack on the back, five people, a dog, and the remaining space filled with cargo and sailing equipment). There is no way we could make due with a smaller car. But I don't care for SUVs because they aren't any larger than station wagons of a comparable size, minivans are. As a car enthusiast I love quaint cars such as your SEAT (all caps btw) but in my exception to the norm, we need a large car. However, I agree that I would not buy an SUV over a station wagon unless I went off roaring frequently.
Also, the 3.8liter GM engine was a complete dog. My parents both had 95' Pontiac Bonevilles and the 3.8 blew a head gasket at 105,000 in my dad's and 110,000mi. In my Mom's.
Joined: Jul 19, 2011 Posts: 110 Location: Midlands, UK
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:07 am Post subject:
Abstract.
You and your family obviously need a large vehicle; I have no problem with those who do need them.
I also appreciate that there is an element of 'want' rather than 'need' in many vehicle choices; I used to have an open top sports car in addition to my daily driver, but as you say, many SUVs and similar are much larger and heavier vehicles with no extra space inside than a regular car, but with worse performance and economy due to the additional weight.
My SEAT (you're correct, all CAPS, but I usually can't be bothered,,) is a 'need' car.
I do some 20,000 miles a year, but don't have much money so need good fuel economy, which means diesel, even though diesel costs more to buy here than petrol. I bought 2nd hand. I needed a larger boot (trunk) than my last car as I kept having to put stuff on the back seats. The only 'want' aspect was the 150bhp engine instead of the more common 110bhp version, but I have similar economy due to 6 gears rather than 5 helping on motorways.
I did forget the main reason why european drive much more efficient cars than americans - fuel cost!
Petrol cost at the moment here is £1.33 per litre - that's £6 per UK gallon, about £5 for a US gallon.
Diesel is about £1.38 per litre, £6.26 per UK gallon, about £5.22 per US gallon.
Still fancy running a 15-20mpg truck for 20,000 miles p.a. on our fuel prices? _________________ Away with the fairies.
