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[ 20 ] |
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| Total Votes : 20 |
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philippepetit
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Apr 20, 2012
Age: 22
Posts: 58
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 Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:44 pm Post subject: Question about Aspergers/Autism diagnosis |
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| If autism spectrum disorders are diagnosed behaviorally, can't it be said that autism has been "cured" if the symptomatic behaviors are gotten rid of? |
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cathylynn
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Posts: 2039
Location: northeastern US
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| i think it's more like compensated than cured. |
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Juliana
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: May 17, 2012
Posts: 43
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| I would say no. ASDs are considered neurological disorders, not psychological disorders. Or in other words, physical as opposed to mental. So there is no cure at the moment. Even if you can compensate, your mind is still wired differently. And although ASDs are diagnosed by behavior now, the general belief, as I understand it, is that once knowledge about ASDs increases, we will eventually know the genes responsible. |
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OJani
a brat
Joined: Feb 24, 2011
Age: 40
Posts: 2320
Location: Budapest, Hungary, Europe
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:24 am Post subject: Re: Question about Aspergers/Autism diagnosis |
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| philippepetit wrote: | | If autism spectrum disorders are diagnosed behaviorally, can't it be said that autism has been "cured" if the symptomatic behaviors are gotten rid of? |
In a sense, yes. If you don't show enough symptoms for a diagnosis you don't have that disorder, quite simply. You may consider yourself a healthy person afterwards (a BAP, for example). Even then, you'll remember where you're coming from, and as we all know, the underlying physiology can't be changed. It can be compensated, as new knowledge, new skills indeed have an effect on the brain, even in physical sense. New neuron paths form by acquiring new skills and knowledge. The younger the brain the more plasticity it has.
So the answer would be yes and no, depending on how you look at it. |
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questor
Hermit
Joined: Apr 24, 2011
Posts: 1983
Location: Twilight Zone
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 7:18 am Post subject: Autism issues |
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Autism disorders are not simply a behavior problem. They are neurological in basis, and involve more than behavior issues. There are other problems present in those with these disorders besides behavior/social problems. Some of these other problems are:
- Motor skills problems.
- Sensory problems.
- Mental processing problems, including time delay in dealing with input/output.
- Stimming.
- Usually need routine and have difficulty with sudden changes.
- Usually have one or more special interests.
- Sometimes there is a language delay.
- Sometimes have lung problems.
- Often have stomach and/ or intestinal problems.
- Often have great difficulty learning things outside of area of interest.
- Often have active daydream life.
- Often feel out of step with the rest of the world.
- Can be over organized or can be very disorganized.
- Meltdowns and shutdowns. Although these may seem like one of the behavior traits, they are actually caused by a neurological overload, when we are having trouble processing either behavior/social things or the non behavior/non social traits. I base this partly on what I've read, and partly on personal experience.
- Autism also often has other conditions as co-morbids.
I'm sure I left out some of the non social/non behavior traits, but just from the ones I did list, it is clear that this is not simply a social/behavior problem, but rather, a neurological condition. I myself have most of these traits to some degree along with many of the social and behavior traits.
I left out depression, partly as it's a co-morbid, but mostly because I believe the depression is caused not by neurology, but by our problems coping with the NT world. Living a life where we are different than most people, and where most people are uncomfortable around us, so we don't fit in, and where we have problems doing things the usual way, is enough to make anyone depressed. |
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Tuttle
Not a bird, a turtle.
Joined: Mar 27, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 2593
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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I read in the DSM-5 proposal that for ADHD they are suggesting having the ability to say "in partial remission" for people who are currently sub-clinical, clearly have been diagnosable in the past, and who are still being affected by their challenges.
This sort of idea is the best that I could see for an ASD. It is possible for people to go from clinical levels of traits to sub-clinical. It's also too often that people take too much on, pretend too hard to be NT, and burn out. When its likely for someone to regain the traits that were "removed", I can't consider those even cured.
However, yes, it is possible for people to become subclinical or BAP instead of having a diagnosable ASD. I'd like a way to say "this person is currently in this sub-clinical state, but we don't know whether they will remain here in the future". |
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philippepetit
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Apr 20, 2012
Age: 22
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| Juliana wrote: | | I would say no. ASDs are considered neurological disorders, not psychological disorders. Or in other words, physical as opposed to mental. So there is no cure at the moment. Even if you can compensate, your mind is still wired differently. And although ASDs are diagnosed by behavior now, the general belief, as I understand it, is that once knowledge about ASDs increases, we will eventually know the genes responsible. |
how do we know that genes are responsible at all? how do we know that if there are genes involved they are directly instead of tangentially involved? etc. etc. it seems to me like if the behavior is not there the label autism is meaningless |
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Rebel_Nowe
Velociraptor
Joined: Jul 08, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 452
Location: All Eternals Deck
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| philippepetit wrote: | | Juliana wrote: | | I would say no. ASDs are considered neurological disorders, not psychological disorders. Or in other words, physical as opposed to mental. So there is no cure at the moment. Even if you can compensate, your mind is still wired differently. And although ASDs are diagnosed by behavior now, the general belief, as I understand it, is that once knowledge about ASDs increases, we will eventually know the genes responsible. |
how do we know that genes are responsible at all? how do we know that if there are genes involved they are directly instead of tangentially involved? etc. etc. it seems to me like if the behavior is not there the label autism is meaningless |
Considering the recent EEG study that found 33 brain patterns distinct to autism, I think it's safe to say that it is physiologically based, that means genetics, as I believe the idea of brain damage has been ruled out. A physiological difference in the brain means that it is impossible for every symptom to be eliminated. As everyone has said (you ignoring them all makes you look like you're trolling, for the record) there are definite non-behavioral symptoms. Also, it doesn't matter how anything is involved. Science seeks to understand the disorder, not to force it make sense in a particular way.
_________________
Rise if you're sleeping; stay awake / We are young supernovas, and the heat's about to break
The Mountain Goats - High Hawk Season
AQ: 40 / Your Aspie score: 157 of 200 / Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 32 of 200 |
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philippepetit
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Apr 20, 2012
Age: 22
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Rebel_Nowe wrote: | | philippepetit wrote: | | Juliana wrote: | | I would say no. ASDs are considered neurological disorders, not psychological disorders. Or in other words, physical as opposed to mental. So there is no cure at the moment. Even if you can compensate, your mind is still wired differently. And although ASDs are diagnosed by behavior now, the general belief, as I understand it, is that once knowledge about ASDs increases, we will eventually know the genes responsible. |
how do we know that genes are responsible at all? how do we know that if there are genes involved they are directly instead of tangentially involved? etc. etc. it seems to me like if the behavior is not there the label autism is meaningless |
Considering the recent EEG study that found 33 brain patterns distinct to autism, I think it's safe to say that it is physiologically based, that means genetics, as I believe the idea of brain damage has been ruled out. A physiological difference in the brain means that it is impossible for every symptom to be eliminated. As everyone has said (you ignoring them all makes you look like you're trolling, for the record) there are definite non-behavioral symptoms. Also, it doesn't matter how anything is involved. Science seeks to understand the disorder, not to force it make sense in a particular way. |
all behavior has a physiological basis. thoughts and cognition are physical. saying something is physiologically based is meaningless. |
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Ettina
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 14, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 1798
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Just because they're diagnosed behaviorally does not mean they're just behaviors. The behaviors are a sign of the underlying cognitive/emotional/sensory differences. It's possible to learn to act NT while still having the same underlying differences that originally led to the autistic behavior, in which case I'd say you're still autistic, just as a gay guy in the closet is still gay. |
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