XFilesGeek
Pretentiousness personified.
Joined: Jul 25, 2010
Posts: 1791
Location: The Oort Cloud
|
 Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:29 am Post subject: |
 |
|
I really have to wonder why some people are sooo obsessed with the idea that vaccines cause autism.
Anyway....
I just don't bother engaging with such people. Studies indicate that showing people facts that directly conflict with their viewpoint has no effect on their opinions, so it's pointless.
_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced." |
|
| Back to top |
|
Verdandi
Miss Kitty Fantastico
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Posts: 10152
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| XFilesGeek wrote: |
I just don't bother engaging with such people. Studies indicate that showing people facts that directly conflict with their viewpoint has no effect on their opinions, so it's pointless. |
This is true. I hold the irrational belief that if I can just explain it clearly enough, people will change their minds. No matter how often I am proven wrong, even with studies, I keep trying. |
|
| Back to top |
|
XFilesGeek
Pretentiousness personified.
Joined: Jul 25, 2010
Posts: 1791
Location: The Oort Cloud
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Verdandi wrote: | | XFilesGeek wrote: |
I just don't bother engaging with such people. Studies indicate that showing people facts that directly conflict with their viewpoint has no effect on their opinions, so it's pointless. |
This is true. I hold the irrational belief that if I can just explain it clearly enough, people will change their minds. No matter how often I am proven wrong, even with studies, I keep trying. |
Every time I try to explain something, I usually just keep making things worse.
But, I suppose if one can glean enjoyment out of the act of researching, and later writing about their results, it's not a complete waste.
_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced." |
|
| Back to top |
|
Orr
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 12, 2011
Posts: 563
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have no idea how to deal with people so thickheaded as to suggest harmful therapy. Maybe cannabis, or an anti-psychotic drug.
As far as people believing that a vaccine may cause autism, that would be swiftly dealt with by disproving that a vaccine may cause autism.
_________________
'You seem very clever at explaining words, Sir,' said Alice. 'Would you kindly tell me the meaning of the poem called "Jabberwocky"?' |
|
| Back to top |
|
CockneyRebel
Mick Avory, Sensitive brown-eyed Sweet Pea
Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Age: 38
Posts: 87148
Location: In a quiet and peaceful garden, where gentle Mick Avory-like Sweet Peas grow.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Verdandi
Miss Kitty Fantastico
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Posts: 10152
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| XFilesGeek wrote: | | Verdandi wrote: | | XFilesGeek wrote: |
I just don't bother engaging with such people. Studies indicate that showing people facts that directly conflict with their viewpoint has no effect on their opinions, so it's pointless. |
This is true. I hold the irrational belief that if I can just explain it clearly enough, people will change their minds. No matter how often I am proven wrong, even with studies, I keep trying. |
Every time I try to explain something, I usually just keep making things worse.
But, I suppose if one can glean enjoyment out of the act of researching, and later writing about their results, it's not a complete waste. |
I am sort of amused and sort of disappointed to realize that my firm belief that clear, rational explanations will convince people is one of those viewpoints that resists facts.
On the other hand, at least it's informative for others who may agree or be undecided or be less committed to holding that perspective. |
|
| Back to top |
|
AspieOtaku
Leader of the Otaku Legion
Joined: Feb 18, 2012
Age: 30
Posts: 5863
Location: Mountain View, California, United States
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
I either avoid them or tell them to read a book! 
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? http://www.anime44.com/anime-list |
|
| Back to top |
|
b9
whatever..
Joined: Aug 15, 2008
Posts: 8352
Location: australia
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
everyone who can listen to me can understand what i say.
"idiots" (i.e severely mentally retarded people) can still be communicated with.
i will talk about simple things to simple people, and i enjoy talking about simple things, and my love has no reference to intelligence or capacity.
i think "judgements" are for other people to make. |
|
| Back to top |
|
ToughDiamond
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2008
Age: 60
Posts: 4751
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Somewhere in his Complete Herbal, Culpeper declares: "To the vulgar, I have nothing to say."
Never argue with somebody who doesn't appreciate the Doctrine Of Signatures.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
b9
whatever..
Joined: Aug 15, 2008
Posts: 8352
Location: australia
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ToughDiamond wrote: | Somewhere in his Complete Herbal, Culpeper declares: "To the vulgar, I have nothing to say."
Never argue with somebody who doesn't appreciate the Doctrine Of Signatures. |
encrusted in shale will be that deceased idea in the fullness of time |
|
| Back to top |
|
NeueZiel
Seņorita Gamera
Joined: Apr 29, 2012
Posts: 1246
Location: Kapustin Yar
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Ignore any idiot, like its been said before, they are the kind of people who believe in anything and won't question until some celebrity speaks out on tv. |
|
| Back to top |
|
XFilesGeek
Pretentiousness personified.
Joined: Jul 25, 2010
Posts: 1791
Location: The Oort Cloud
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Verdandi wrote: | | XFilesGeek wrote: | | Verdandi wrote: | | XFilesGeek wrote: |
I just don't bother engaging with such people. Studies indicate that showing people facts that directly conflict with their viewpoint has no effect on their opinions, so it's pointless. |
This is true. I hold the irrational belief that if I can just explain it clearly enough, people will change their minds. No matter how often I am proven wrong, even with studies, I keep trying. |
Every time I try to explain something, I usually just keep making things worse.
But, I suppose if one can glean enjoyment out of the act of researching, and later writing about their results, it's not a complete waste. |
I am sort of amused and sort of disappointed to realize that my firm belief that clear, rational explanations will convince people is one of those viewpoints that resists facts.
On the other hand, at least it's informative for others who may agree or be undecided or be less committed to holding that perspective. |
Well, I've just replaced my belief that rational discourse should hold sway with the "fact" of human cognitive biases. Here's a nifty list if you haven't seen it before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
Fittingly, I recently got into a debate with someone on another site who was convinced that bonobo chimpanzees were "male-dominated" based on ONE article written by ONE psychologist (Ian Parker) who based his findings on ONE research expedition to the Congo. The majority of the evidence points to bonobo society being female-dominated (or, at least, not entirely male-dominated), and I was more than happy to supply the myriad of information available on the web, several book recommendations, and even two articles that contested Parker's findings. The result? The dude I was debating with simply declared that Ian Parker's article was "obviously more important" and didn't bother with explaining how or why the ONE article was so much more definitive than the buttload of research to the contrary. Oh, and other posters felt the need to point out that I was "weird" for knowing so much about "monkeys." 
Ultimately, the guy found the idea that bonobos are female-dominated to be emotionally unappealing; therefore, he clung to the one scanty piece of evidence that seemed to confirm his viewpoint, and automatically rejected anything that challenged it. This is a form of "selective abstraction."
I've stated elsewhere that this is one of the reasons I avoid political debates, and take any other "debate" with a grain of salt. Humans are inherently inclined to pick out "facts" that bolster their preconceived opinions, and automatically reject "facts" that don't gel with their preconceived opinions. What people actually "see" is heavily influenced by what they expect to "see."
I just say, "Screw it," and I go get a latte from Starbuck's. 
_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced." |
|
| Back to top |
|
League_Girl
Proud mamma
Joined: Feb 05, 2010
Posts: 13482
Location: My house
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I also read online in a blog that when you try and correct people they are wrong about, they just tend to stick with their beliefs more. Lot of people do this, even autistic people, part of human nature. I haven't met anyone who doesn't do this. Anyone that claims they aren't like this, I may test them by telling them something they are strongly against and if they don't change their minds about it, they have proved to me they are like that and I will point that out to them so they know. But then again they may still choose to believe they are not like that.
_________________
Titanic is a good diaper movie, lots of flooding |
|
| Back to top |
|
Verdandi
Miss Kitty Fantastico
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Posts: 10152
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| XFilesGeek wrote: |
I've stated elsewhere that this is one of the reasons I avoid political debates, and take any other "debate" with a grain of salt. Humans are inherently inclined to pick out "facts" that bolster their preconceived opinions, and automatically reject "facts" that don't gel with their preconceived opinions. What people actually "see" is heavily influenced by what they expect to "see."
I just say, "Screw it," and I go get a latte from Starbuck's. |
All very interesting, and I know that people won't abandon their biases, but I suspect that the next argument that comes along, I'll be back to citing sources.
Actually, I already did that ~15 minutes ago on another site. Maybe I just like listing factual counters to annoying-to-me points of view.
| b9 wrote: | everyone who can listen to me can understand what i say.
"idiots" (i.e severely mentally retarded people) can still be communicated with.
i will talk about simple things to simple people, and i enjoy talking about simple things, and my love has no reference to intelligence or capacity.
i think "judgements" are for other people to make. |
I like this. I really dislike the way a lot of people conflate intelligence and how much someone agrees with their point of view. I don't think someone who disagrees with me is necessarily less intelligent just because of that disagreement. I am more likely to think they're just uninformed (or sometimes, I'm the uninformed one). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
