Searching for those who think similarly.
17 Nov 2013, 4:44 am
Does anyone else think in the following way please?
I am more than ok with not being good at some things. It is the world that judges that negatively not me. I see nothing wrong with not being good at something, in and of itself it is neither good nor bad. It just is. It is unrealistic to expect oneself to be good at everything anyway.
What decides whether it is good or bad (in a more literal sense) depends on the situation you are in and the perspective of the persons/people involved.
An example:
If you are living out in the wilds and you need to be able to hunt to find food but you are not a good hunter this could be problematic. However there are several things you can do. You could try to improve your hunting skills, you could use or invent equipment to help you with your hunting skills or you could bargain with someone else to do the hunting for you.
If on the other hand you live in a city and you have a Sainsbury next door it is irrelevant as to whether or not you are a good hunter (it does not matter at all as it does not directly affect you at that moment in time).
Another example of how my brain naturally works.
I see a table with a wobbly leg. I add no further meaning to that...all i see is a table with a wobbly leg. I don't judge the table, but I ask myself if I feel the wobbly leg needs to be repaired. The table would be more steady if I repaired it which would make it easier to read or write on or use for other purposes. I decide to mend the wobbly leg on the table so start thinking of different ways to go about doing that...
At no point do I judge the table...I merely see what is in reality and look for practical solutions to the problem. I did not judge the table as good or bad because it had a wobbly leg. I did not decide the table was worthless because it had a wobbly leg. I did decide I could help to improve the table for practical purposes by trying to fix said wobbly leg. In some instances however the wobbly leg may just add to the charm of an item...if the table is old and used only for decoration then does the wobbly leg really need to fixed or repaired? Or is the table cute and charming anyway even if its leg does wobble a bit and its not perfect. Does the table have to be perfect to in order to be pleasing or useful? if nothing else it is useful as a decorative piece...what is wrong with that? Why should the table having a wobbly leg be a negative thing?
It is a negative thing because you decide it is a negative thing...not because it is negative in reality.
And there in lies the problem..I am the only person in the world I know who thinks like I do and it means I am unable to communicate with the rest of the planet as a result. I am alone right in in that I cannot find anyone else who understands my way of thinking and perceiving.
Let me apply the above to my weight. I look in the mirror or stand on the scales and see someone carrying more body fat than is healthy. I think to myself do wish to reduce my body fat? If the answer is yes as it would improve my health, vitality, sleep and appearance (in terms of my own personal preferences anyway) then I go straight to finding a healthy practical solution.
I do not judge myself for carrying weight...that is something other people do. I am not responsible for the judgements they make of me, they are. In no way can I control how they perceive things. So they will interpret my mentioning of excess body fat as being negative or hard on myself because they add negative judgements to my statement...judgements I have not added myself.
This is why I will remain alone unless a miracle happens and I find someone else on this planet who thinks like me or whom can accept that think very differently from them. The current belief system is so wide spread (seeing things in pole opposites (good/bad, wrong/right, negative/positive) instead of what they literally are in objective reality and them moving on to practical solutions if required) that people who think like me, or alternatively people who can understand my way of thinking or accept it, are not easily found
Or at least they don't seem to be.
Even those with degrees are still deluding themselves as to the nature of reality by using a man made value judgement system that is not realistic and should be made obsolete.
People see what they want to see, but they rarely see what actually is.
Right now I see that I am alone and my attempts to change that are failing. I am not interested in any related value judgements, only solutions.
17 Nov 2013, 5:52 am
Your post pulls in different directions - many people think this way.
Maybe you differ in that you detach yourself from your opinions, and you don't invest emotion in judging. Surely you do judge the table leg you talk about, simply by saying that it is defective.
I think not all those with degrees are deluding themselves - they have invested time and money in getting a piece of paper, so that they can have a greater chance of having their choice of occupation. Wanting an outcome doesn't necessarily mean that the whole process taken to obtain it is endorsed.
Right now I see that I am alone and my attempts to change that are failing. I am not interested in any related value judgements, only solutions.
The solution could be to see that you, like everyone else, is seeing what they want to see. You see yourself as alone because you are heavily invested in the physical senses - and you want to see this. Who says that this is the reality?
17 Nov 2013, 6:27 am
Maybe you differ in that you detach yourself from your opinions, and you don't invest emotion in judging. Surely you do judge the table leg you talk about, simply by saying that it is defective.
I think not all those with degrees are deluding themselves - they have invested time and money in getting a piece of paper, so that they can have a greater chance of having their choice of occupation. Wanting an outcome doesn't necessarily mean that the whole process taken to obtain it is endorsed.
Right now I see that I am alone and my attempts to change that are failing. I am not interested in any related value judgements, only solutions.
The solution could be to see that you, like everyone else, is seeing what they want to see. You see yourself as alone because you are heavily invested in the physical senses - and you want to see this. Who says that this is the reality?
But I never said the table leg was defective. I said it was wobbly which is a descriptor not a judgement. If a table leg wobbles, it is wobbly...
There is no defective about it as defective implies there is some kind of perfect ideal that must be lived up to when in reality there is not. The table is or was not defective, it just had a wobbly leg that needed to be adjusted in order to make it more stable for writing on.
I see exactly what is...
In the case of the table a table with a wobbly leg. Full stop...nothing more nothing less. Whether or not the table is defective because it has a wobbly leg is a subjective judgement. Defective by what standards...you own. Subjective.
17 Nov 2013, 6:46 am
I think I understand a little...focusing on the negative can be harmfull.
At my secondary school each year group was divided into three groups known as tiers. So, we had Tier 1, Tier 2 and Tier 3.
Tier 1 pupils achieved the heighest grades in the acedemic subjects, science, math and English. Tier 2 pupils were considered average. Tier 3 pupils were not achieving the targets for the acedemic subjects.
Because of this rating system Tier 3 pupils were considered stupid.
When we reached Year 9 and had to choose which GCSE subjects we would do in Years 10 and 11, Tier 1 and 2 pupils were pressured into only doing acedemic subjects because they were told they would have to go to Uni. But, Tier 3 pupils were told that Uni was not going to be a realistic possiblity for them and were made to do practical subjects such as Child Care, Construction and so on.
On the one hand, some could argue that by only allowing the Teir 3 pupils to do only NVQs that they were encouraging a realistic view of what those pupils could achieve. And by only allowing Tier 1 pupils to do acedemic subjects that they were encouraging them to achieve high grades.
But, in my opinion, this Tier system became harmful because they would not allow pupils the freedom to choose what they wanted to do. For example, they wouldn't allow me, a Tier 1 pupil, to do a Child Care NVQ, because I was supposed to do an acedemic subject. Likewise, I don't think that the school would have allowed a Tier 3 pupil to drop out of a NVQ to do, say Geography, or something similar.
Tier 1s were seen as the bright ones who would increase the schools rating through high grades. Tier 3s were the stupid ones the school could boast they had helped to achieve their limited potential. Tier 2s were forgotton about.
_________________
Not sure if I have it or not.
17 Nov 2013, 7:47 am
But I never said the table leg was defective. I said it was wobbly which is a descriptor not a judgement. If a table leg wobbles, it is wobbly...
There is no defective about it as defective implies there is some kind of perfect ideal that must be lived up to when in reality there is not. The table is or was not defective, it just had a wobbly leg that needed to be adjusted in order to make it more stable for writing on.
I see exactly what is...
In the case of the table a table with a wobbly leg. Full stop...nothing more nothing less. Whether or not the table is defective because it has a wobbly leg is a subjective judgement. Defective by what standards...you own. Subjective.
In your original post - you used the verbs 'repair' and 'mend', did you not. Now, I don't know about you, but I would think that these would apply in a situation where someone has placed a judgement on something being 'broken', indeed, defective. Is that not a fair conclusion to come to?
And it's interesting that you focused on the table leg as being wobbly - like pretty much everyone else would? Why didn't you focus on the rest of the table and legs? Perhaps the rest of the table is simply out of allignment, for the purposes you judge the table fit for.
And this seeing exactly what is...I've heard the blindest people say this, and then excuse themselves of doing all sorts of things because they presume they do this. They believe exactly what their senses tell them - when they don't realise they are going off their interpretation of their senses, and are merely looking at projections. Very very few people see what is. I don't include myself in this category always - but at least I know when I'm sleepwalking and when I'm wide awake. Is this good or bad? No, it just is.
So, actually the good news is (on the evidence of your post) you really do seem to think like everyone else. A comforting idea, I'm sure you'll agree.
17 Nov 2013, 8:36 am
Not really, you have completely missed the over all point I was making by obsessing over semantics.
There is nothing wrong with not being good at something. Negative and positive don't exist, good and bad don't exist, defective does not exist, broken is not the same as defective...it depends on the personal meaning you put on it.
It is still just a table with a wobbly leg or a leg with a table that is out of alignment if you must insist (although if all the other 3 legs are not wobbly then I fail to see how the table is out of anything...it is more logical that it is the leg that is loose or has not been fixed tightly enough to the table that is the problem not the table itself. Alternatively the leg might be shorter than the others and this is causing the table to wobble. It's irrelevant as the detail is not as important as the overall point I am trying to make)
If you don't like my use of the word repair, then feel free to replace it with 'alter' the leg instead.
And still you have not answered my question..I did not ask for an argument on how I think, I asked if anyone else thought in a similar way.
17 Nov 2013, 8:42 am
I wasn't giving you an argument. Because I disagree with you, you're labelling it an arguement - pretty much the way many people think. Taking something personal which isn't personal in the slightest - the way many people think.
I just answered the post that you wrote - simple as.
And I answered your question - the answer was yes, many people. 
Last edited by octobertiger on 17 Nov 2013, 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
17 Nov 2013, 8:49 am
The tone is pretty much in your interpretation. It's projection. Very normal
I am not saying you're not a cool bodacious awesome young lady with an IQ the size of a skyscraper. But I don't think you're entirely honest with yourself. Then again, what do I know?
Tiger out, have a good one.
17 Nov 2013, 8:52 am
I am not saying you're not a cool bodacious awesome young lady with an IQ the size of a skyscraper. But I don't think you're entirely honest with yourself. Then again, what do I know?
Tiger out, have a good one.
Ah but I am not confused by tables with wobbly legs...people on the other hand are a different matter.
As for the semantics I am happy to change them. There is nothing wrong with something being broken though, other than the fact it won't work as you had hoped it would but you might be able to make use of it in some other way instead if it can't be put back in to the working order you want it in.
Technically its not really broken, it has just taken on a different form and may not be useful for the intended purpose anymore.
I have to use language people understand to try and explain what I mean which I don't seem to be getting across very well at the moment. IE there is no such thing as defective. It's a man made concept based on some standards it set for itself but which do not really occur in the natural world...unless we anthropomorphise it.
Just because the item in question does not match or live up those standards that does not mean it's defective or broken even.
Repair can be used as in to correct (as far as I know), so to correct the problem of the wobbly leg you would need to repair it so that the table can change its form once again and be used for its originally intended purpose.
17 Nov 2013, 9:15 am
I am more than ok with not being good at some things. It is the world that judges that negatively not me. I see nothing wrong with not being good at something, in and of itself it is neither good nor bad. It just is. It is unrealistic to expect oneself to be good at everything anyway.
What decides whether it is good or bad (in a more literal sense) depends on the situation you are in and the perspective of the persons/people involved.
An example:
If you are living out in the wilds and you need to be able to hunt to find food but you are not a good hunter this could be problematic. However there are several things you can do. You could try to improve your hunting skills, you could use or invent equipment to help you with your hunting skills or you could bargain with someone else to do the hunting for you.
If on the other hand you live in a city and you have a Sainsbury next door it is irrelevant as to whether or not you are a good hunter (it does not matter at all as it does not directly affect you at that moment in time).
Another example of how my brain naturally works.
I see a table with a wobbly leg. I add no further meaning to that...all i see is a table with a wobbly leg. I don't judge the table, but I ask myself if I feel the wobbly leg needs to be repaired. The table would be more steady if I repaired it which would make it easier to read or write on or use for other purposes. I decide to mend the wobbly leg on the table so start thinking of different ways to go about doing that...
At no point do I judge the table...I merely see what is in reality and look for practical solutions to the problem. I did not judge the table as good or bad because it had a wobbly leg. I did not decide the table was worthless because it had a wobbly leg. I did decide I could help to improve the table for practical purposes by trying to fix said wobbly leg. In some instances however the wobbly leg may just add to the charm of an item...if the table is old and used only for decoration then does the wobbly leg really need to fixed or repaired? Or is the table cute and charming anyway even if its leg does wobble a bit and its not perfect. Does the table have to be perfect to in order to be pleasing or useful? if nothing else it is useful as a decorative piece...what is wrong with that? Why should the table having a wobbly leg be a negative thing?
It is a negative thing because you decide it is a negative thing...not because it is negative in reality.
And there in lies the problem..I am the only person in the world I know who thinks like I do and it means I am unable to communicate with the rest of the planet as a result. I am alone right in in that I cannot find anyone else who understands my way of thinking and perceiving.
Let me apply the above to my weight. I look in the mirror or stand on the scales and see someone carrying more body fat than is healthy. I think to myself do wish to reduce my body fat? If the answer is yes as it would improve my health, vitality, sleep and appearance (in terms of my own personal preferences anyway) then I go straight to finding a healthy practical solution.
I do not judge myself for carrying weight...that is something other people do. I am not responsible for the judgements they make of me, they are. In no way can I control how they perceive things. So they will interpret my mentioning of excess body fat as being negative or hard on myself because they add negative judgements to my statement...judgements I have not added myself.
This is why I will remain alone unless a miracle happens and I find someone else on this planet who thinks like me or whom can accept that think very differently from them. The current belief system is so wide spread (seeing things in pole opposites (good/bad, wrong/right, negative/positive) instead of what they literally are in objective reality and them moving on to practical solutions if required) that people who think like me, or alternatively people who can understand my way of thinking or accept it, are not easily found
Or at least they don't seem to be.
Even those with degrees are still deluding themselves as to the nature of reality by using a man made value judgement system that is not realistic and should be made obsolete.
People see what they want to see, but they rarely see what actually is.
Right now I see that I am alone and my attempts to change that are failing. I am not interested in any related value judgements, only solutions.
My mother always told me I was the least judgmental person against other people in a personal way..as I could always see 'objective' reasons as to why they behaved based on nature..rather than inherent evil intent...
I do not believe in the concept of evil or good...as an inherent part of any animal nature...
I see that coming from collective intelligence and abstract language that humans have developed as a means to share..cooperate..and gain greater ability for potential subsistence and survival..
Humans are capable of dreams of heaven and hell...
But the true heaven and hell..I see..as simply nature's rewards or punishments..for surviving or not surviving..that is all...
So yeah..I can relate..but I also have a long history of perfectionism..which was the hardest habit to break of all...
I see that coming from fear of not being accepted by others..as human beings do inherently need other human beings to survive..
That fear was real though..as I was most definitely shunned by my peers for being different..
I adapted through perfectionism..and made great strides toward subsistence...survival and even financial success..
But that almost killed me..
It required an intense personally designed unique method of cognitive behavioral therapy...to remove the illusory fears..as well as perfectionism...
I take delight..in random events now..and even enjoy the beauty of how they all seem to connect to make a beautiful tapestry that is the whole of existence...
So I guess I am still a perfectionist at the deepest levels of consciousness..but I see the reality that I do not need to control perfection I only have to flow with IT..whatever IT IS....
Well yeah...that's kinda getting deep...rarely does anyone understand me when I go that deep..but occasionally 1 or 2 or 3 do...
And yeah..It feels good to find commonalities for one's thinking..with others...
It's hard to be the only one..at anything..I think...
Simply as at heart...
We are always social animals....
_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick
17 Nov 2013, 9:35 am
Hi Bumble.
I've read a lot of your posts and I think you are a very good person.
I'm a perfectionist -- are you a perfectionist? Most Aspies are. It's how we are wired. It always leads to misery. That's why so many of us have depression and anxiety. I'm unhappy a lot of the time, because I can't be the perfect person I want to be.
I told my boss recently that I was upset because I wasn't perfect. My boss told me, "No, you're not perfect. Neither am I. But you're a good person, and being imperfect is what makes you a very good person."
I wanted to share that with you, Bumble, because I want you to know how very good you are.
17 Nov 2013, 9:36 am
I am more than ok with not being good at some things. It is the world that judges that negatively not me. I see nothing wrong with not being good at something, in and of itself it is neither good nor bad. It just is. It is unrealistic to expect oneself to be good at everything anyway.
What decides whether it is good or bad (in a more literal sense) depends on the situation you are in and the perspective of the persons/people involved.
An example:
If you are living out in the wilds and you need to be able to hunt to find food but you are not a good hunter this could be problematic. However there are several things you can do. You could try to improve your hunting skills, you could use or invent equipment to help you with your hunting skills or you could bargain with someone else to do the hunting for you.
If on the other hand you live in a city and you have a Sainsbury next door it is irrelevant as to whether or not you are a good hunter (it does not matter at all as it does not directly affect you at that moment in time).
Another example of how my brain naturally works.
I see a table with a wobbly leg. I add no further meaning to that...all i see is a table with a wobbly leg. I don't judge the table, but I ask myself if I feel the wobbly leg needs to be repaired. The table would be more steady if I repaired it which would make it easier to read or write on or use for other purposes. I decide to mend the wobbly leg on the table so start thinking of different ways to go about doing that...
At no point do I judge the table...I merely see what is in reality and look for practical solutions to the problem. I did not judge the table as good or bad because it had a wobbly leg. I did not decide the table was worthless because it had a wobbly leg. I did decide I could help to improve the table for practical purposes by trying to fix said wobbly leg. In some instances however the wobbly leg may just add to the charm of an item...if the table is old and used only for decoration then does the wobbly leg really need to fixed or repaired? Or is the table cute and charming anyway even if its leg does wobble a bit and its not perfect. Does the table have to be perfect to in order to be pleasing or useful? if nothing else it is useful as a decorative piece...what is wrong with that? Why should the table having a wobbly leg be a negative thing?
It is a negative thing because you decide it is a negative thing...not because it is negative in reality.
And there in lies the problem..I am the only person in the world I know who thinks like I do and it means I am unable to communicate with the rest of the planet as a result. I am alone right in in that I cannot find anyone else who understands my way of thinking and perceiving.
Let me apply the above to my weight. I look in the mirror or stand on the scales and see someone carrying more body fat than is healthy. I think to myself do wish to reduce my body fat? If the answer is yes as it would improve my health, vitality, sleep and appearance (in terms of my own personal preferences anyway) then I go straight to finding a healthy practical solution.
I do not judge myself for carrying weight...that is something other people do. I am not responsible for the judgements they make of me, they are. In no way can I control how they perceive things. So they will interpret my mentioning of excess body fat as being negative or hard on myself because they add negative judgements to my statement...judgements I have not added myself.
This is why I will remain alone unless a miracle happens and I find someone else on this planet who thinks like me or whom can accept that think very differently from them. The current belief system is so wide spread (seeing things in pole opposites (good/bad, wrong/right, negative/positive) instead of what they literally are in objective reality and them moving on to practical solutions if required) that people who think like me, or alternatively people who can understand my way of thinking or accept it, are not easily found
Or at least they don't seem to be.
Even those with degrees are still deluding themselves as to the nature of reality by using a man made value judgement system that is not realistic and should be made obsolete.
People see what they want to see, but they rarely see what actually is.
Right now I see that I am alone and my attempts to change that are failing. I am not interested in any related value judgements, only solutions.
Yes, I believe I understand how you think.
The difference between your thinking and "ordinary" thinking is that you tend to think more "objectively" than "subjectively". This is an autistic thinking-style.
The way you think indicates that you rely on your IQ when thinking, and not so much your emotional intelligence (the one that makes people become social). People only judge others when they use their emotional intelligence. That's also what makes them think as being worth more or less than others (instead of equals).
Having a below-average emotional intelligence is common in autistics (that's why we are often less social than many NTs), so given you're autistic in some way, your thinking actually seems natural to me.
I think JSBACHlover has a point, you seem to be hard on yourself. You are great and good enough the way you are!
17 Nov 2013, 10:45 am
This is why I will remain alone unless a miracle happens and I find someone else on this planet who thinks like me
This is the only pertinent part of your very long post. The other part of that sentence (or whom can accept that think very differently from them) is a lie because your entire post was essentially a long winded way of saying that You cannot accept people who don't think like you.
Tiger was right in that basically everyone thinks this way, it's just some of us are lucky to have stumbled upon those who already think along the similar lines as ourselves, and some of us haven't or won't any time soon.
_________________
context is king
17 Nov 2013, 11:52 am
Um can I not have a critique of my personality please or how I do and don't feel about myself and because I really just wanted to find someone who had a similar way of thinking to myself so that I don't feel so alone out here (or like I am the only one).
Tiger is incorrect as he has completely missed the point.
The poster who mentioned thinking objectively seems to have picked up on what I mean, at least in the most part.
I am not hard on myself. The whole point of my way of thinking lacks that judgement full stop! The self judgement required to be hard on myself is simply not there. My whole point, if you look at how I think, is that I do not self judge in that way ...I see only the literal..no implied meaning just the literal.
It is basically a form of literal/objective thinking.
A table with a wobbly leg is just a table with a wobbly leg (literally..no other meaning attached, nothing)
A dog with a crooked tail is just a dog with a crooked tail..not a good dog, not a bad dog, just a dog with a crooked tail.
A mistake is just a learning curve..I made an error, my response is to review my data (without becoming emotional and self judging), find out what went wrong and then think of ways I may be able to make corrections.
A failure is just a learning curve too. I have no fear of it. I am not intimidated by it, but I am concerned about possible consequences if I should fail sometimes (ie failure to hold down a job results in financial difficulty, social isolation and so on. I am more concerned about the reality of these consequences then by the fact that I failed. My response? Find a practical solution).
In regards to my some of my social problems I see someone who is struggling to find people who understand my way of thinking. That is all I see in regards to the social issues I have brought up in this thread.
Some people are very sweet but they are adding meaning that is not there and projecting feelings on to me that I do no have.
That I cannot accept different ways of thinking? I don't see clear evidence of that. I can accept differences of opinion but I am upset that I am unable to find anyone who can understand my more practical way of thinking. It is they who cannot accept me so I have to spend my life around people who have deluded themselves into thinking I hate myself when I don't even know what they feels like.
I find it emotionally disturbing when I am accused of having feelings I do not have, especially when society keeps trying to treat me like dirt because it is obsessed with convincing itself that I have no self esteem, especially when I try to be honest about my social difficulties in that I cannot read some things socially and have the reply with "oh you are just thinking negatively"
So all people can read all social cues then? Um We are on an Aspergers forum...for people who can't read things socialy! And you still think that someone trying to explain that they don't understand social rules or how to go about making friends is just negative thinking?
Are people being serious?
The truth is I am alone. I have no family, no friends..only a few acquaintances I talk to online. Part of it is the above...it is not that I can't accept an alternative belief system it is that I am tired of having it rammed down my throat and shoved into my face to the point where it is making me physically and emotionally ill.
It just marvels me that the government pay a fortune for me to have therapy for feelings of self hatred I don't have but will not allow me to be realistic and honest about my social problems.
